"Whites Only"?

So, for my ride for today, I decided to look for African Americans on their
bikes, since we were riding the popular Lake Washington Loop route. I
probably saw two dozen, the most I think I've ever seen on any ride. Maybe
they've always been there, and I just haven't noticed, who knows?


--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm
Personal page: http://www.geocities.com/cpetersky/
See the books I've set free at:
http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky

jt wrote:

It is more an issue of socioeconomic's than race. I know runners &
cyclists of all races. However I have always lived in nice
middle/upper class neighborhoods. People who live in working class
neighborhoods who are adults generally don't exercise other than
perhaps lifting weights, cardio is non-existent.

People riding on bikes/running wearing spandex etc it can be safely
assumed that their job does not involve manual labor but most likely
sitting at a desk. I have had jobs when I was younger that involved
manual labor and I was too tired to exercise.

I know anyone can find anecdotal evidence to the contrary but the
facts are what they are.

I think this is generally true, but I found the exception in southern CA. While
the usual crew are still dominant in cycling, there are plenty of people in the
construction business, both management and labor, as well as a lot of
police/fire/rescue folks.

Then again, class differences and identities are not as apparent in CA as in the
east. Oviously some people have way more money than others, but the usual class
stereotypes hardly apply. Nor are class identities as strong. There are plenty
of construction workers with yuppie tastes, and professionals with redneck
tastes. Assumptions about income levels don't apply either -- skilled tradesmen
often make healthy six figure incomes, while engineers, scientists, and
educators with advanced degrees struggle to make half that much.

About being too tired to work -- it happens, but smart laborers know staying in
shape in makes their job a lot easier. If you can't maintain your pace all day,
every day, week to week, month to month, you're doing something wrong. Working
yourself into shape on the job only works when you're young -- sometimes. After
30 or so, it takes a concerted effort to stay in shape in order to keep working
comfortably. If this isn't true at 30, it certainly is at 40. Just 50 years
ago it was common for laborers to retire at 40, and drop dead by 45. Today we
know a lot more about nutrition, exercise, overuse injuries, etc. Of course not
everyone's up to speed with this. As with many other things it's a problem of
education.

Matt O.

"Claire Petersky" wrote:

"RonSonic" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 5 Mar 2005 12:52:29 -0800, "Claire Petersky"

wrote:

FWIW, as a white woman, I feel safer riding in urban black neighborhoods
than I do on many rural roads. Young black men apparently find very
little
percentage in harrassing me for the sake of harrassing me; somehow in the
woods a young white guy in monster truck will think it's fun to run me
off
the road.

Has the latter actually happened?

I'm both fierce about keeping my lane position, and also seem to need less
space to be comfortable between me and the motor vehicle than a lot of other
cyclists, so, I'm pretty hard to run off the road. I've had people come
pretty close, though.

Yet you somehow created a stereotype image of the crazed rural truck
drivers with homicidal tendencies toward bicycles,. But I'll bet had
the unqualified negative stereotype been about the young black men,
you'd be offended.

Bottom line, there are jerks in every demographic, including in the
suburban black woman demographic that you point out in the next post
(which should tell you about all you really need to know about making
stereotypical generalizations).

From my experience, the percentage of jerks in any group is well above
zero, but far under a significant percentage - I tend to leave it at
that.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

Mark Hickey wrote:


Yet you somehow created a stereotype image of the crazed rural truck
drivers with homicidal tendencies toward bicycles,. But I'll bet had
the unqualified negative stereotype been about the young black men,
you'd be offended.

Bottom line, there are jerks in every demographic, including in the
suburban black woman demographic that you point out in the next post
(which should tell you about all you really need to know about making
stereotypical generalizations).

From my experience, the percentage of jerks in any group is well
above
zero, but far under a significant percentage - I tend to leave it at
that.

You can leave it at that, but I think it's silly to pretend that all
groups contain the same percentage of jerks.

Maybe it's too un-PC for you, but after seven years of living in the
rural South, I feel very strongly that among backwoods pickup drivers
with rebel flags, the average is much higher than one a**hole per
person.

Details on request, I suppose - but I had those guys sic dogs on me,
try to grab my sisters hair as she rode her bike, physically assault
me, etc. When I taught in a school down there, I heard them talk about
going hunting and taking "bush shots" (shooting at unseen animals - or
people? - they heard in the bushes). I had them ride motorcycles on
sidewalks outside classroom doors. I had them mercilessly make fun of
black students because they were black...

There were some fine folks in that demographic, to be sure. But based
on my samples, there were a higher percentage of jerks than I've
encountered in any other group.

Let me be quick to apologize to the rebel-flagged, pickup driving
cyclists who are reading this. I figure, if any one of those guys ever
got on a bicycle, their IQ would instantaneously rise.

OK, that's my personal prejudice, based on my personal experience.
Have at it.

wrote:

Mark Hickey wrote:

From my experience, the percentage of jerks in any group is well
above
zero, but far under a significant percentage - I tend to leave it at
that.

You can leave it at that, but I think it's silly to pretend that all
groups contain the same percentage of jerks.

Maybe it's too un-PC for you, but after seven years of living in the
rural South, I feel very strongly that among backwoods pickup drivers
with rebel flags, the average is much higher than one a**hole per
person.

Details on request, I suppose - but I had those guys sic dogs on me,
try to grab my sisters hair as she rode her bike, physically assault
me, etc. When I taught in a school down there, I heard them talk about
going hunting and taking "bush shots" (shooting at unseen animals - or
people? - they heard in the bushes).

From the news reports (and personal input), this seems to be more
common in the northeast than in the south... (I remember a housewife
who got shot hanging out her laundry because some rube thought her
white gloves were a deer's tail).

I had them ride motorcycles on
sidewalks outside classroom doors. I had them mercilessly make fun of
black students because they were black...

I also don't think either of these is particularly unique to any
particular demographic (making fun of someone because they're
different - in whatever way that might be). And it's when they're
riding the motorcycles in the HALLS outside classroom doors that you
need to worry.

There were some fine folks in that demographic, to be sure. But based
on my samples, there were a higher percentage of jerks than I've
encountered in any other group.

I have a theory it's harder to recognize the jerks that are more like
you - if you can presuppose that any group of people is infested with
jerkdom, it won't be hard to "prove" by personal observation since
you'll be much more likely to ascribe to malice what can be adequately
explained by idiocy or simple differences in culture.

Let me be quick to apologize to the rebel-flagged, pickup driving
cyclists who are reading this. I figure, if any one of those guys ever
got on a bicycle, their IQ would instantaneously rise.

Well, yeah, of course... (see, I have my own prejudice - cagers vs. us
noble types on bicycles). ;-)

OK, that's my personal prejudice, based on my personal experience.
Have at it.

I've lived all over (the US and the world), and think it's tough to
figure out anyone until you've walked a bit in their shoes. I've
ridden a lot of miles in the "farm zone", and had many fewer incidents
than when I lived in New Jersey (a heavily populated NE state for
those of you not familiar with the US). The one memorable incident I
had riding in the country in the south was indeed a guy in a pickup
truck, but with a Harley insignia in the back window of the truck
instead of a rebel flag... dirtbag, yes... redneck? Naaaah....

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

Anybody have any theories?

Maybe this varies in different parts of the country. In Philadelphia I
have ridden with many Afro-American and Asian riders, and frequently
see people of all colors both in club groups and riding individually.
There seems to be a good mix whether it's road or mountain biking.
Last summer I saw a large pack of fully kitted-out riders, both male
and female, on very nice bikes - all African American. Since it's
unusual to see a single-race group around here, I rode up and asked
where they were from, and it turned out they were in town from Atlanta,
taking part in one of the summertime fraternity picnics which the city
hosts every year. Philadelphia in general seems to be quite relaxed
when it comes to racial mixing - I can't say that no one notices race,
but it doesn't seem nearly as segregated as Boston or Chicago.

Mort

Matt O'Toole wrote:
jt wrote:

About being too tired to work -- it happens, but smart laborers know
staying in
shape in makes their job a lot easier. If you can't maintain your
pace all day,
every day, week to week, month to month, you're doing something
wrong. Working
yourself into shape on the job only works when you're young --
sometimes. After
30 or so, it takes a concerted effort to stay in shape in order to
keep working
comfortably. If this isn't true at 30, it certainly is at 40. Just
50 years
ago it was common for laborers to retire at 40, and drop dead by 45.
Today we
know a lot more about nutrition, exercise, overuse injuries, etc. Of
course not
everyone's up to speed with this. As with many other things it's a
problem of
education.

Matt O.

Tell my 86 year old construction working father (retired at 70) that he
should have exercised when he arrived home from work each day. The
look on his face would be priceless. ;-)

Do you work construction? Are you an educated construction worker who
works his ass off all day then comes home and exercises? Doesn't sound
that smart to me. I should get all the construction guys around here up
to speed. Some of them are still working in their 70's. Keeps them
young.

All Good Things,
Maggie

Claire Petersky wrote:
So, for my ride for today, I decided to look for African Americans on their
bikes, since we were riding the popular Lake Washington Loop route. I
probably saw two dozen, the most I think I've ever seen on any ride. Maybe
they've always been there, and I just haven't noticed, who knows?

I don't think I've seen that many at one go before [1]. When I have seen
them, they were almost exclusively riding obviously nice bikes and kitted
out fairly well.

I stopped once to help one fellow and got to talking with him.[2] He was
working for the local football team in some white collar fashion. I don't
remember what it was precisely, it was either PR or recruiting, but some
sort of desk job. So he does fit the profile fairly well that we've been
talking about.

[1] I'm talking about adult cyclists. My neighborhood and some of
the other neighborhoods I travel and shop in are much more heavily
Black than is typical for Seattle. So I see a *lot* of kids out on
bikes, but very rarely any adults.

[2] Two busted drive side spokes on an undertensioned wheel (some
machine built thing that came with his bike). Releasing his rear brake
didn't come close to spinning free, so I tweaked it some with my spoke
wrench. He was a new rider, so he really hadn't a really good idea of
what to do.

--
Dane Jackson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g
"We don't care. We don't have to. We're the Phone Company."

mort wrote:

Anybody have any theories?

Maybe this varies in different parts of the country. In Philadelphia
I
have ridden with many Afro-American and Asian riders, and frequently
see people of all colors both in club groups and riding individually.
There seems to be a good mix whether it's road or mountain biking.
Last summer I saw a large pack of fully kitted-out riders, both male
and female, on very nice bikes - all African American. Since it's
unusual to see a single-race group around here, I rode up and asked
where they were from, and it turned out they were in town from
Atlanta,
taking part in one of the summertime fraternity picnics which the
city
hosts every year. Philadelphia in general seems to be quite relaxed
when it comes to racial mixing - I can't say that no one notices
race,
but it doesn't seem nearly as segregated as Boston or Chicago.

Mort


For some reason this thread about which socio-economic or ethic group
rides bikes rubs me the wrong way. I have not figured out why as of
yet. Maybe it will come to me in a vision. Is this about "Lance
Armstrong Riding" or just plain old get on a bike and go?

There was a time when people only rode a bike because they could not
afford a car. Anyone out there remember being forced into riding a
bike because you had absolutely no money for a car? I do. Maybe thats
why I can't relate to the bikes that cost thousands of dollars. It was
only a year ago that I found out that there are bikes that expensive.
When John Kerry's bicycle was a topic of conversation. I actually
never knew a bike could cost that much.

All good things,
Maggie

On 10 Mar 2005 05:26:43 -0800, "Maggie" wrote:




For some reason this thread about which socio-economic or ethic group
rides bikes rubs me the wrong way. I have not figured out why as of
yet. Maybe it will come to me in a vision. Is this about "Lance
Armstrong Riding" or just plain old get on a bike and go?

Let's call it sport riding, as a contrast to DUI riders, migrant workers who
haven't gotten a down payment to the buy here pay here lot, kids selling crack
from chrome BMX bike and people who just gotta get in shape and cycling is
easier on the ankles even though they hate it as much as they do running.

Some folks don't do sport riding. Sometimes it makes sense as a practical
matter, other times it's just some cultural quirk. As for why it would rub you
the wrong way, you know that you are a sport / fitness rider and you know the
sort of attitude about that behavior common to your neighborhood.

There was a time when people only rode a bike because they could not
afford a car. Anyone out there remember being forced into riding a
bike because you had absolutely no money for a car? I do. Maybe thats
why I can't relate to the bikes that cost thousands of dollars. It was
only a year ago that I found out that there are bikes that expensive.
When John Kerry's bicycle was a topic of conversation. I actually
never knew a bike could cost that much.

I remember being broke and having a bike as my primary mode. But I am not aware
that there was EVER a time when one rode a bike "only" because a car was out of
the budget. That may have been the case in some neighborhoods in some
overpopulated mid-Atlantic region. Then again, that region seems to hold other
narrow, stupid and bigoted ideas and practices.

As for bikes costing thousands, it is amusing when the bike is that much more
capable than the rider. At the same time what's the point of expensive
furniture. Basically the same, these are nice things we'd like to own and have
surrounding us.

Ron