Mounting Vittoria Randonneur on Alex Rims ACE-17

landotter wrote:
On Sep 28, 6:16 pm, wrote:
someone wrote:
Thanks to Dan O and landotter. Lubricant and full inflation did
the job.
Keep in mind that after you've mounted up a set of tires a few
times, they get progressively easier. The IRCs and Panaracer
tires on my geared and fixed gear bikes don't need much of a lever
to get them on any more--I mainly carry them for charity work.
I have not had that experience and have been riding only clinchers,
mainly steel bead-wire ones. Even the Kevlar bead tires did not do
that on my wheels, neither kind of tire having a plastically
deformable bead strand.
It has nothing to do with the wire strands, the casing fabric simply
breaks in with use. Also, any loose molding material that makes
mounting a PITA gets sloughed off after a few mountings.
What loose molding material is changing. My tires have a wear strip on
the bead where it contacts the rim and this wear strip has not worn
through. I think you might show a photo of the worn area to explain
how this affects tire mounting.

Did your imagination take a hike? I know engineers can construct
mental models, so you're quite capable of imagining what the frilly
rubber overflow on a tire bead from the molding process looks like on
a slightly cheaper tire, and how it could create friction impeding the
mounting of a tire, and how easily it could be sheared off by a tire
lever.

BUT--what you're doing--despite your professional credentials, is
nothing less than internet trolling, because you're a dick.


actually, i think he's losing it with old age. much of his ramblings
here lately are either incoherent or rooted so far in the past that it's
clear he's living there, not here.

as for "professional credentials", those are more a product of him
telling you he has them rather than demonstrated ability. his book and
"faq"'s are so full of fundamental errors, it's just a joke.

he's excellent at self-promotion though - hence people believe him when
he /tells/ them he's an engineer. those of us that know a little about
engineering however look at things like his tensiometer math not
accounting for spoke stiffness or his spoke load calculation being
misconstrued as wheel strength calculation and we wonder how he keeps a
straight face.

wrote:
someone wrote:

Thanks to Dan O and landotter. Lubricant and full inflation did
the job.

Keep in mind that after you've mounted up a set of tires a few
times, they get progressively easier. The IRCs and Panaracer
tires on my geared and fixed gear bikes don't need much of a lever
to get them on any more--I mainly carry them for charity work.

I have not had that experience and have been riding only clinchers,
mainly steel bead-wire ones. Even the Kevlar bead tires did not do
that on my wheels, neither kind of tire having a plastically
deformable bead strand.

It has nothing to do with the wire strands, the casing fabric simply
breaks in with use. Also, any loose molding material that makes
mounting a PITA gets sloughed off after a few mountings.

What loose molding material is changing. My tires have a wear strip on
the bead where it contacts the rim and this wear strip has not worn
through. I think you might show a photo of the worn area to explain
how this affects tire mounting.

Also, do check for the opposite problem, that a bead is escaping
its seat, which is another reason to inflate in stages while
checking, massaging, bouncing, or whatever ritual it is you do,
that bead in place. Usually it likes to get ornery around the
valve.

I have not had that experience with any of the clinchers I have
used, even Vittorias.

You're lucky, it's common.

Let's get back to WHAT is common and how does it look. As I said, I
have much experience with tires over many miles and years and have not
seen what you vaguely describe.

have you ever considered that there may be a difference between the
center channel depth of your rims vs. the subject rims? hmm?


I still have most of those tires in a
large stack in my basement in a cool dark area next to a similar stack
of used rims.

utterly utterly irrelevant. you're losing it jobst.

On Sep 28, 10:00 pm, jim beam wrote:
landotter wrote:
On Sep 28, 6:16 pm, wrote:
someone wrote:
Thanks to Dan O and landotter. Lubricant and full inflation did
the job.
Keep in mind that after you've mounted up a set of tires a few
times, they get progressively easier. The IRCs and Panaracer
tires on my geared and fixed gear bikes don't need much of a lever
to get them on any more--I mainly carry them for charity work.
I have not had that experience and have been riding only clinchers,
mainly steel bead-wire ones. Even the Kevlar bead tires did not do
that on my wheels, neither kind of tire having a plastically
deformable bead strand.
It has nothing to do with the wire strands, the casing fabric simply
breaks in with use. Also, any loose molding material that makes
mounting a PITA gets sloughed off after a few mountings.
What loose molding material is changing. My tires have a wear strip on
the bead where it contacts the rim and this wear strip has not worn
through. I think you might show a photo of the worn area to explain
how this affects tire mounting.

Did your imagination take a hike? I know engineers can construct
mental models, so you're quite capable of imagining what the frilly
rubber overflow on a tire bead from the molding process looks like on
a slightly cheaper tire, and how it could create friction impeding the
mounting of a tire, and how easily it could be sheared off by a tire
lever.

BUT--what you're doing--despite your professional credentials, is
nothing less than internet trolling, because you're a dick.

actually, i think he's losing it with old age. much of his ramblings
here lately are either incoherent or rooted so far in the past that it's
clear he's living there, not here.

as for "professional credentials", those are more a product of him
telling you he has them rather than demonstrated ability. his book and
"faq"'s are so full of fundamental errors, it's just a joke.

he's excellent at self-promotion though - hence people believe him when
he /tells/ them he's an engineer. those of us that know a little about
engineering however look at things like his tensiometer math not
accounting for spoke stiffness or his spoke load calculation being
misconstrued as wheel strength calculation and we wonder how he keeps a
straight face.

I really don't know **** about bikes, though I post here a lot, to be
honest--but what I do know--is that you have to pretend that you do
and acknowledge fake cred before whupping out the dick card. That is
how purple vein comedy is done my friends.

On Sep 28, 5:35 am, A Muzi wrote:
landotter wrote:
On Sep 28, 5:14 am, wrote:
I am trying to remount a Vittoria Randonneur tire on an Alex Rims
ACE-17, and I cannot get it to mount evenly, in a circle all the way
around. The whitewall dips several millimeters toward the rim in one
or two places, which results in a bumpy ride. Can anybody help?

I have those rims on my fixed gear and have mounted various Vittoria
tires on several models of Alex rims--they get along great! Just mount
as usual, then only inflate a little bit at a time, perhaps 10psi, and
use your hands to help seat the bead in the rim--it really should be a
quite easy tire to mount on that rim. You can also try rubbing a
little soap from a dry bar on the bead of the tire, or even a bit of
silicon spray--it will help the bead just slwoopdoing into place.

You mentioned silicone spray just because datakoll is back, yes?


Personally, I would have preferred to have rubbed a Spanish mackerel
along the bead, but we do have a complicated system of honorifics at
r.b.t.

On Sep 27, 4:14*pm, wrote:
I am trying to remount a Vittoria Randonneur tire on an Alex Rims
ACE-17, and I cannot get it to mount evenly, in a circle all the way
around. The whitewall dips several millimeters toward the rim in one
or two places, which results in a bumpy ride. Can anybody help?

I suspect the tire might have to fit into a ridge in the rim, but I
cannot see how to do that and keep it properly positioned while
inflating the tube. The wheel and tire are part of a Novara Fusion I
bought from REI, and it came without manuals for the wheel or tire. I
also cannot find useful information atwww.alexrims.comorwww.vittoria.com.

I do not think it is relevant, but here is some history: The bike is
new. I deflated both tubes, installed Slime, and reinflated them. The
front wheel has been fine. After struggling with the rear wheel, I
took it to a local shop. A week later, it got a flat. That is the
second time this has happened with that shop, on different bikes. Each
time, upon opening the tire, I found the tube had been installed with
a zig-zag near the valve stem as if to take up slack, and, each time,
the tube had ruptured in that area. No more business for that shop! I
replaced the tube, and that is where I am now, trying to inflate the
tube and get the tire mounted properly.

Did you tell the people in the shop what had happened, and get a new
tube, with slime, and a correct install for the money you already
paid?

If they weasel, walk.

Sounds like that tire went on that rim at one point. Yes? Problem
started when slime was installed?

The tubes are a good fit in your tires-- the largest tube that will
fit inside the tire when slightly inflated, not too big? (Or too small
so that it has to stretch thin, in the interest of longevity).

Sounds like the bead of the tire isn't seating in the hooked bead of
the rim. The rim strip might be in the way, or the tube might be
getting in the way. You can move a tire (tube totally uninflated) back
and forth to see if the tube is getting between the tire and rim; you
shouldn't see any tube when the tire is in place.

Starting with tire off rim (after careful inspection for the second
piece of glass or wire after finding the first culprit) I usually put
a little air in the tube to get it to hold shape while I get the valve
in straight, then mount the tire (from both sides from the valve),
keeping the tube in the tire as much as possible, no pinching between
tire and rim. When the tire gets tight, I let the air out, keep the
tire beads as close together as possible (to take the shortest line
around the "spoke bed" of the rim) and making sure the tube is in the
tire (not showing), pop the tire in place. Check again to see there is
no tube showing between tire (bead) and rim, inflate while making sure
the tire beads are seating in the rim bead. If the tire isn't seating,
note the location, let all the air out, look in there (sometimes a
tire lever is a good poker) and you will likely see the tube has
somehow wandered where it shouldn't be g and that's why the tire
bead can't seat.

Or the tire is only marginally "correct"; I had a cheap Conti that had
a bad bead on it.

http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=100

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/flats.html

Someone showed me a neat trick. Use three tire levers, two next to
each other, the third a short distance away-- especially when dealing
with a tight tire, the doubled levers help make that first lift. I
carry four in case one breaks g. --D-y