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Do bicycles and cars mix?



 
 
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  #521  
Old January 1st 04, 03:54 AM
George Conklin
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Default Do bicycles and cars mix? (Sierra Club and Sprawl)


"Robert Cote" wrote in message
...
In article ,
DTJ wrote:

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 11:39:57 -0800, "Baxter"
wrote:

You're is the only one making up the idea of Smart Growth being

elitist.

What does "you're is the only one" mean? Is that idiot talk for
you're the only one, or elitist talk?


Just a typing/parsing error on his part. I do the same thing*. What
Leroy Baxter wants to say is that the implementation of Smart Growth is
not one of exclusion nor exclusivism. Leroy is wrong by the very words
of the leaders of the Smart Growth community and the FActs of SmUG
development history. Duany targets upper class demographics, Calthorpe
only pursues public projects and Knustler eschews subsidies of all
types.

[* The difference beig that Leroy seems to get the benefit of any doubt
in a.p.u and m.t.u-t.]


In his Atlantic Monthly article, Kunstler has a color picture of a
commercial street with apartments over the stores. Those apartments have
curtains in the windows...that is where the middle class would live. To the
right, there is the big white house, which is where the rich will live.
What about the poor? Well, they would be in the basement of the white house
as servants. It is a totally elitist concept.

More recently, Kunsler has enlarged on his eschatology. He states that
in 10 years we Wal-Mart will be out of business due to the collapse of the
economy, and everyone else will be back on 5 acres trying to grow enough
food to survive. Of course, even bringing back all the marginal farmland in
the USA and farming everyone's year, there would not be enough food grown to
feed our current population. Of course, as a spoiled city boy he
understands none of this.


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  #522  
Old January 1st 04, 03:55 AM
George Conklin
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Posts: n/a
Default Do bicycles and cars mix? (Sierra Club and Sprawl)


"Robert Coté" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Baxter" wrote:

--


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"Robert Coté" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Baxter" wrote:


"George Conklin" wrote in message
k.net...

"DTJ" wrote in message
...
On 29 Dec 2003 21:33:00 -0800, (Enough
Already) wrote:
snip

No, it shows the stupidity of people like you who argue that

there
are
too many people, except you don't count.

Smart Growth is elitist. The elites don't ever count

themselves in
the
policies they advocate for the rest of us.

You're is the only one making up the idea of Smart Growth being

elitist.


Calthope and Knustler and Duany agree with George.


Be my guest - post some examples of how Calthope and Knustler and Duany
think the ideal urban form is Georges 10-acre homesteads.


No, George said, "Smart Growth is elitist." I'm in no position to
follow your fantasies down the imaginary "10-acre homesteads" path. Do
try to read what was written not what you wish were written just because
even your limited intellect could handle it.

Calthope and Knustler and Duany agree with George.



Kunsler himself is pushing 5 acre lots where we can grow our own food
after the collapse of the world market system. He is now into secular
eschatology, but it is Kunsler who is pushing such solutions. As I have
said many times, the best bet is for populations to continue to CONCENTRATE
in urban areas on the two coasts, which is what will happen anyway.


  #523  
Old January 1st 04, 07:15 PM
Enough Already
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Default Do bicycles and cars mix? (Sierra Club and Sprawl)

"George Conklin" wrote in message k.net...

It was only a matter of time before that old suicide reference popped
up here. The irony of that cliche is that it shows a subconscious
recognition that overpopulation is indeed a problem


No, it merely asks you to stop being a hypocrite.


In that case, everyone alive today is a hypocrite for being born into
an overcrowded world. Anyone who exists and questions troubling
aspects of their existence is a hypocrite.

E.A.

http://enough_already.tripod.com/
If any other species behaved like Man we'd call it a plague.
  #525  
Old January 1st 04, 07:40 PM
Enough Already
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Default Do bicycles and cars mix? (Sierra Club and Sprawl)

Robert Coté wrote in message ...

It was only a matter of time before that old suicide reference popped
up here. The irony of that cliche is that it shows a subconscious
recognition that overpopulation is indeed a problem.


No. The inevitable reference to suicide is because the respondent
recognizes the cognitive dissonance of the overpopulation crowd. It is
old and common precisely because it succintly reveals the hypocrisy of
the overpopulation crowd.


That term "overpopulation CROWD" is a good one. The hypocrisy angle
implies that anyone who seeks change is a hypocrite. Let's stick to
the issue of why you don't perceive an overpopulation problem with so
much scientific and instinctive evidence of one. Even if the
environmental angle doesn't matter to you, people have a natural need
for space that gets violated more each year. It explains a lot of rage
on our roads. People get much calmer when given ample room.

It also says a
lot about the character of those who utter it. I'm surprised you did't
preface it with the other ignorant platitude about fitting the entire
world population in Texas.


Since this is crossposted to autos, bikes and planning theres a better
"platitude." Reproduced here for your reading pleasu

If every road in the US were laid out in a grid 2 lanes in each
direction and spaced a half mile apart then the entire US road
system would cover a square 560 miles on a side. That at the truly
idiotic spacing of only every half mile and only 2 lanes and no
other roads whatsoever. Actually using a combination of freeways,
principal, arterial and tertiary roads in current proportions the
theoretical single urban area national model would be about 1/3
that size.


That's got nothing to do with the actual layout that honeycombs the
entire country and breaks the land into millions of pockets.
Growth-addicts rely too much on what-ifs to form their reality.

E.A.

http://enough_already.tripod.com/
If any other species behaved like Man we'd call it a plague.
  #526  
Old January 1st 04, 07:51 PM
Enough Already
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Do bicycles and cars mix? (Sierra Club and Sprawl)

Robert Coté wrote in message ...

So, there can be no such thing as sprawl and overpopulation because my
posting style doesn't fit your parameters. I like your evidence-based
approach to this.


There is no evidence of either sprawl or overpopulation based on the
evidence you've produced in these posts or on your website. It is
precisely because I insist on evidence-based approaches that your post
fails to advance your claims.


You're sounding like those nuts who think the world could (and should)
support a trillion people. Your pattern of responses tells me that no
evidence will prove to you that the world could be overcrowded. Except
maybe by animals, which get culled "for their own good" whenever they
outgrow (by a few hundreds) the pockets of wilderness we've pushed
them into.

You must also be a big lover of crowds, noise and traffic jams,
because those things will certainly get worse with more people in a
finite space.

E.A.

http://enough_already.tripod.com/
If any other species behaved like Man we'd call it a plague.
  #527  
Old January 1st 04, 08:02 PM
Enough Already
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Do bicycles and cars mix? (Sierra Club and Sprawl)

"George Conklin" wrote in message k.net...

So, there can be no such thing as sprawl and overpopulation because my
posting style doesn't fit your parameters. I like your evidence-based
approach to this.



Overpopulation is a literary term, not a scientific one.


Then why do so many actual scientists warn us about it, as seen in
this well publicized open letter to humanity?

"The earth is finite. Its ability to absorb wastes and destructive
effluent is finite. Its ability to provide food and energy is finite.
Its ability to provide for growing numbers of people is finite. And we
are fast approaching many of the earth's limits. Current economic
practices which damage the environment, in both developed and
underdeveloped nations, cannot be continued without the risk that
vital global systems will be damaged beyond repair."

(http://www.actionbioscience.org/envi...cientists.html)

You must have some great insight that they lack, so please share it in
detail.
A few clipped sentences aren't enough.

E.A.

http://enough_already.tripod.com/
If any other species behaved like Man we'd call it a plague.
  #528  
Old January 1st 04, 08:16 PM
Baxter
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Default Do bicycles and cars mix? (Sierra Club and Sprawl)

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Free software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


"Robert Coté" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Baxter" wrote:


Be my guest - post some examples of how Calthope and Knustler and Duany
think the ideal urban form is Georges 10-acre homesteads.


No, George said, "Smart Growth is elitist." I'm in no position to
follow your fantasies down the imaginary "10-acre homesteads" path. Do
try to read what was written not what you wish were written just because
even your limited intellect could handle it.

Calthope and Knustler and Duany agree with George.


I notice you're not able to provide any explanation in just how they agree.


  #529  
Old January 1st 04, 08:18 PM
Baxter
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Do bicycles and cars mix? (Sierra Club and Sprawl)

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Free software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


"Robert Cote" wrote in message
...
In article ,
DTJ wrote:

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 11:39:57 -0800, "Baxter"
wrote:

You're is the only one making up the idea of Smart Growth being

elitist.

What does "you're is the only one" mean? Is that idiot talk for
you're the only one, or elitist talk?


Just a typing/parsing error on his part. I do the same thing*. What
Leroy Baxter wants to say is that the implementation of Smart Growth is
not one of exclusion nor exclusivism. Leroy is wrong by the very words
of the leaders of the Smart Growth community and the FActs of SmUG
development history. Duany targets upper class demographics, Calthorpe
only pursues public projects and Knustler eschews subsidies of all
types.

More blithering from the master.



  #530  
Old January 1st 04, 08:20 PM
Baxter
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Do bicycles and cars mix? (Sierra Club and Sprawl)

--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Free software - Baxter Codeworks www.baxcode.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------


"George Conklin" wrote in message
link.net...

"Robert Cote" wrote in message
...
In article ,
DTJ wrote:

On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 11:39:57 -0800, "Baxter"
wrote:

You're is the only one making up the idea of Smart Growth being

elitist.

What does "you're is the only one" mean? Is that idiot talk for
you're the only one, or elitist talk?


Just a typing/parsing error on his part. I do the same thing*. What
Leroy Baxter wants to say is that the implementation of Smart Growth is
not one of exclusion nor exclusivism. Leroy is wrong by the very words
of the leaders of the Smart Growth community and the FActs of SmUG
development history. Duany targets upper class demographics, Calthorpe
only pursues public projects and Knustler eschews subsidies of all
types.

[* The difference beig that Leroy seems to get the benefit of any doubt
in a.p.u and m.t.u-t.]


In his Atlantic Monthly article, Kunstler has a color picture of a
commercial street with apartments over the stores. Those apartments have
curtains in the windows...that is where the middle class would live. To

the
right, there is the big white house, which is where the rich will live.
What about the poor? Well, they would be in the basement of the white

house
as servants. It is a totally elitist concept.


Is that his (Kunstler's) explanation? Or your "analysis" of it?



 




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