Equal Access to Our Parks

"pmhilton" wrote in message
...
jason wrote:
Mike Vandeman wrote:



Show me or shut up, LIAR.




Ohh the irony of it all, I wonder if you can even see the irony mikey
you're so blinded.

You are attempting rational discourse with an irrational being.

PH


Guilty, your honor ...

Jeff Strickland wrote:

When I first asked if you were stupid, it was a rhetorical question.
Now, it sounds like a silly question.

I don't need to explain "rhetorical", do I?



Perhaps you'd better. MV doesn't recognize/understand irony, sarcasm,
hyperbole,

factual data & most other trappings of civil discourse; it's entirely
possible

that rhetorical is also beyond his comprehension.

PH

pmhilton wrote:
Jeff Strickland wrote:


When I first asked if you were stupid, it was a rhetorical question.
Now, it sounds like a silly question.

I don't need to explain "rhetorical", do I?



Perhaps you'd better. MV doesn't recognize/understand irony, sarcasm,
hyperbole,

factual data & most other trappings of civil discourse; it's entirely
possible

that rhetorical is also beyond his comprehension.


Probably less "possible" and
more "probable"

Mike Vandeman wrote in
:

November 24,
1999
Tony Acosta
Director, Office of Parks, Recreation, and Cultural Affairs
1520 Lakeside Drive
Oakland, CA 94612

Access to Joaquin Miller Park

Dear Sir:

I am very concerned about the arbitrary and discriminatory
management of Oakland's parks. I like to practice bulldozer racing
(also known as "bulldozer scrambling", or BS, for short). That is my
way of enjoying nature. Who are you to tell me how I should enjoy
nature?! Why is your way of enjoying the outdoors any better than
mine?! You allow roller-bladers, equestrians, mountain bikers, and
even hikers in your parks. But I am excluded, and can't enjoy the
parks that I pay taxes for. You obviously like them better than me, or
maybe you belong to one of those user groups, so you are biased
towards them. In any case, you are discriminating against me and other
bulldozer racers, and I demand that this discrimination, which
violates the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution, stop immediately!

I know that bulldozer racers have a bad name, but that's just
because we are the new kid on the block. We are a tiny minority. I
know that there have been some problems, such as some people riding
recklessly, going off the designated trails, and even secretly
constructing illegal trails. But those are a small minority of
bulldozer riders. You shouldn't allow a small minority to give the
majority of us bulldozer racers, who ride responsibly, a bad name. Why
should we be punished, just because of them, and be forced to walk,
just like everybody else?

I also know that some extremist tree-huggers claim that it's a
violation of CEQA (the California Environmental Quality Act) to allow
a new use of the park trails, and the creation of new trails, without
doing an EIR (Environmental Impact Report). But you are right:
mountain biking and bulldozer racing, when performed in an
environmentally responsible manner, doesn't have a significant impact
on the environment. In fact, it's actually beneficial to wildlife. You
can tell that, by the fact that you often see deer tracks on the
mountain biking trails. If the trails didn't benefit them, they
wouldn't use them, now would they? Bulldozer racing doesn't drive out
wildlife. That is a myth. I see lots of wildlife where I ride.

Some people say that we ride too fast to avoid killing small
animals on the trail, such as snakes -- that we have to pay attention
to avoid crashing, and can't also look out for wildlife. Are they that
slow? What about "survival of the fittest"? If they are that slow,
they aren't going to survive, anyway.

Some HOHAs ("Hateful Old Hikers", as the mountain bikers call
them) claim that bulldozer racing does more harm to the environment
than hiking. But a scientific study was done in New Zealand, proving
that bulldozer racing does no more harm than hiking. Another
scientific study showed that most erosion is caused by nature, and so
any additional erosion caused by bulldozer racing is not significant,
by comparison. Would you rather have the park clear-cut, or turned
into another gated community for the rich? Without the support of
strong environmentalists like us, that's what will inevitably happen!
We are your strongest defense against development. If a park doesn't
have a strong constituency of recreational users, no one will care
about it, and it will inevitably be lost. (That's what those
environmental extremists call "destroying it, in order to save it".
But what do they know?) The HOHAs claim that vehicles make it too easy
for lazy, uncaring people to get into wildlife habitat. But if nobody
goes there, who will protect the park? The more people go to a park,
the better it is for the wildlife!

Another claim is that we compact the soil around redwoods, killing
them! Can you believe that?! In Muir Woods National Monument, they
don't even let people walk next to them, making them stick to pavement
or raised walkways. They must be run by an environmental extremist
tree-hugger!

I know that some HOHAs claim that bulldozer racing is
annoying, and destroys their experience of nature. I guess they're
superior to everybody else. They are just being selfish. They just
don't want to share "their" trails with anybody else! That's obvious.
The older ones claim that they have given up going there, because they
are afraid of being hit, or are tired of constantly having to get off
the trail to let bulldozers go by. Isn't that just evolution --
survival of the fittest? Why should hikers, or anyone else, have the
whole park to themselves? We pay taxes, too. We have just as much
right to be there as they do. We are just as much environmentalists as
they are. We love nature! That's why we want to ride there!

When you have spent as much on your equipment as we have, believe me,
it is very frustrating, not to have any place to use it! We don't, of
course, condone illegal trail building. However, we can understand the
frustration of people whose only sin is preferring a different way of
enjoying nature. They think that, because they are able to purchase a
piece of equipment that lets them go off-road, the public is obligated
to give them a place to use it. That's understandable -- isn't that
the American way? Aren't they just like the pioneers?

We bulldozer racers ("BS-ers") belong in the parks just as much as
everybody else. If the HOHAs don't want us on their trails, because we
allegedly create narrow ruts, and make them difficult to walk on, then
we deserve to have our own trails, which we will gladly build for
free. There is plenty of space for everyone. If the wildlife don't
like it, they can always move! It's just survival of the fittest. As I
said, that's what evolution is all about.

We will even police our own riders, so that you won't have any
additional expenses. After all, how would you catch a renegade
bulldozer racer? Your rangers would also need to drive bulldozers,
increasing the wear and tear on the trails. We can do that for you.
How about it? There are more and more of us every day. And we vote.

Sincerely,

Michael J.
Vandeman, Ph.D.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you
are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande




Mike, this horse is long since dead. You post this crap a couple of
times a year. Find a new drum to beat


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Mike Vandeman wrote in
:

On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 10:03:56 -0700, "Jeff Strickland"
wrote:

top post

Yawn.

You have been posting this crap several times a year for nearly 7
years now. It has been soundly debunked each and every time you post
it,

Show me or shut up, LIAR.

yet it appears
again. Are you stupid, or what?

/top post

snip

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you
are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande


Here we go again, LIAR, DUH, Did you say something??

I see he selected LIAR this time.

Step right up, Spin the wheel of Mikey responses, What's is going to be
this time???

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On 25 Oct 2006 20:53:01 GMT, Chris Foster
wrote:

Mike Vandeman wrote in
:

November 24,
1999
Tony Acosta
Director, Office of Parks, Recreation, and Cultural Affairs
1520 Lakeside Drive
Oakland, CA 94612

Access to Joaquin Miller Park

Dear Sir:

I am very concerned about the arbitrary and discriminatory
management of Oakland's parks. I like to practice bulldozer racing
(also known as "bulldozer scrambling", or BS, for short). That is my
way of enjoying nature. Who are you to tell me how I should enjoy
nature?! Why is your way of enjoying the outdoors any better than
mine?! You allow roller-bladers, equestrians, mountain bikers, and
even hikers in your parks. But I am excluded, and can't enjoy the
parks that I pay taxes for. You obviously like them better than me, or
maybe you belong to one of those user groups, so you are biased
towards them. In any case, you are discriminating against me and other
bulldozer racers, and I demand that this discrimination, which
violates the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution, stop immediately!

I know that bulldozer racers have a bad name, but that's just
because we are the new kid on the block. We are a tiny minority. I
know that there have been some problems, such as some people riding
recklessly, going off the designated trails, and even secretly
constructing illegal trails. But those are a small minority of
bulldozer riders. You shouldn't allow a small minority to give the
majority of us bulldozer racers, who ride responsibly, a bad name. Why
should we be punished, just because of them, and be forced to walk,
just like everybody else?

I also know that some extremist tree-huggers claim that it's a
violation of CEQA (the California Environmental Quality Act) to allow
a new use of the park trails, and the creation of new trails, without
doing an EIR (Environmental Impact Report). But you are right:
mountain biking and bulldozer racing, when performed in an
environmentally responsible manner, doesn't have a significant impact
on the environment. In fact, it's actually beneficial to wildlife. You
can tell that, by the fact that you often see deer tracks on the
mountain biking trails. If the trails didn't benefit them, they
wouldn't use them, now would they? Bulldozer racing doesn't drive out
wildlife. That is a myth. I see lots of wildlife where I ride.

Some people say that we ride too fast to avoid killing small
animals on the trail, such as snakes -- that we have to pay attention
to avoid crashing, and can't also look out for wildlife. Are they that
slow? What about "survival of the fittest"? If they are that slow,
they aren't going to survive, anyway.

Some HOHAs ("Hateful Old Hikers", as the mountain bikers call
them) claim that bulldozer racing does more harm to the environment
than hiking. But a scientific study was done in New Zealand, proving
that bulldozer racing does no more harm than hiking. Another
scientific study showed that most erosion is caused by nature, and so
any additional erosion caused by bulldozer racing is not significant,
by comparison. Would you rather have the park clear-cut, or turned
into another gated community for the rich? Without the support of
strong environmentalists like us, that's what will inevitably happen!
We are your strongest defense against development. If a park doesn't
have a strong constituency of recreational users, no one will care
about it, and it will inevitably be lost. (That's what those
environmental extremists call "destroying it, in order to save it".
But what do they know?) The HOHAs claim that vehicles make it too easy
for lazy, uncaring people to get into wildlife habitat. But if nobody
goes there, who will protect the park? The more people go to a park,
the better it is for the wildlife!

Another claim is that we compact the soil around redwoods, killing
them! Can you believe that?! In Muir Woods National Monument, they
don't even let people walk next to them, making them stick to pavement
or raised walkways. They must be run by an environmental extremist
tree-hugger!

I know that some HOHAs claim that bulldozer racing is
annoying, and destroys their experience of nature. I guess they're
superior to everybody else. They are just being selfish. They just
don't want to share "their" trails with anybody else! That's obvious.
The older ones claim that they have given up going there, because they
are afraid of being hit, or are tired of constantly having to get off
the trail to let bulldozers go by. Isn't that just evolution --
survival of the fittest? Why should hikers, or anyone else, have the
whole park to themselves? We pay taxes, too. We have just as much
right to be there as they do. We are just as much environmentalists as
they are. We love nature! That's why we want to ride there!

When you have spent as much on your equipment as we have, believe me,
it is very frustrating, not to have any place to use it! We don't, of
course, condone illegal trail building. However, we can understand the
frustration of people whose only sin is preferring a different way of
enjoying nature. They think that, because they are able to purchase a
piece of equipment that lets them go off-road, the public is obligated
to give them a place to use it. That's understandable -- isn't that
the American way? Aren't they just like the pioneers?

We bulldozer racers ("BS-ers") belong in the parks just as much as
everybody else. If the HOHAs don't want us on their trails, because we
allegedly create narrow ruts, and make them difficult to walk on, then
we deserve to have our own trails, which we will gladly build for
free. There is plenty of space for everyone. If the wildlife don't
like it, they can always move! It's just survival of the fittest. As I
said, that's what evolution is all about.

We will even police our own riders, so that you won't have any
additional expenses. After all, how would you catch a renegade
bulldozer racer? Your rangers would also need to drive bulldozers,
increasing the wear and tear on the trails. We can do that for you.
How about it? There are more and more of us every day. And we vote.

Sincerely,

Michael J.
Vandeman, Ph.D.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you
are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande




Mike, this horse is long since dead. You post this crap a couple of
times a year. Find a new drum to beat

At least I said something. You said NOTHING.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Mike Vandeman wrote in
:

On 25 Oct 2006 20:53:01 GMT, Chris Foster
wrote:

Mike Vandeman wrote in
m:

November 24,
1999
Tony Acosta
Director, Office of Parks, Recreation, and Cultural Affairs
1520 Lakeside Drive
Oakland, CA 94612

Access to Joaquin Miller Park

Dear Sir:

I am very concerned about the arbitrary and discriminatory
management of Oakland's parks. I like to practice bulldozer racing
(also known as "bulldozer scrambling", or BS, for short). That is my
way of enjoying nature. Who are you to tell me how I should enjoy
nature?! Why is your way of enjoying the outdoors any better than
mine?! You allow roller-bladers, equestrians, mountain bikers, and
even hikers in your parks. But I am excluded, and can't enjoy the
parks that I pay taxes for. You obviously like them better than me,
or maybe you belong to one of those user groups, so you are biased
towards them. In any case, you are discriminating against me and
other bulldozer racers, and I demand that this discrimination, which
violates the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution, stop immediately!

I know that bulldozer racers have a bad name, but that's just
because we are the new kid on the block. We are a tiny minority. I
know that there have been some problems, such as some people riding
recklessly, going off the designated trails, and even secretly
constructing illegal trails. But those are a small minority of
bulldozer riders. You shouldn't allow a small minority to give the
majority of us bulldozer racers, who ride responsibly, a bad name.
Why should we be punished, just because of them, and be forced to
walk, just like everybody else?

I also know that some extremist tree-huggers claim that it's a
violation of CEQA (the California Environmental Quality Act) to
allow a new use of the park trails, and the creation of new trails,
without doing an EIR (Environmental Impact Report). But you are
right: mountain biking and bulldozer racing, when performed in an
environmentally responsible manner, doesn't have a significant
impact on the environment. In fact, it's actually beneficial to
wildlife. You can tell that, by the fact that you often see deer
tracks on the mountain biking trails. If the trails didn't benefit
them, they wouldn't use them, now would they? Bulldozer racing
doesn't drive out wildlife. That is a myth. I see lots of wildlife
where I ride.

Some people say that we ride too fast to avoid killing small
animals on the trail, such as snakes -- that we have to pay
attention to avoid crashing, and can't also look out for wildlife.
Are they that slow? What about "survival of the fittest"? If they
are that slow, they aren't going to survive, anyway.

Some HOHAs ("Hateful Old Hikers", as the mountain bikers call
them) claim that bulldozer racing does more harm to the environment
than hiking. But a scientific study was done in New Zealand, proving
that bulldozer racing does no more harm than hiking. Another
scientific study showed that most erosion is caused by nature, and
so any additional erosion caused by bulldozer racing is not
significant, by comparison. Would you rather have the park
clear-cut, or turned into another gated community for the rich?
Without the support of strong environmentalists like us, that's what
will inevitably happen! We are your strongest defense against
development. If a park doesn't have a strong constituency of
recreational users, no one will care about it, and it will
inevitably be lost. (That's what those environmental extremists call
"destroying it, in order to save it". But what do they know?) The
HOHAs claim that vehicles make it too easy for lazy, uncaring people
to get into wildlife habitat. But if nobody goes there, who will
protect the park? The more people go to a park, the better it is for
the wildlife!

Another claim is that we compact the soil around redwoods, killing
them! Can you believe that?! In Muir Woods National Monument, they
don't even let people walk next to them, making them stick to
pavement or raised walkways. They must be run by an environmental
extremist tree-hugger!

I know that some HOHAs claim that bulldozer racing is
annoying, and destroys their experience of nature. I guess they're
superior to everybody else. They are just being selfish. They just
don't want to share "their" trails with anybody else! That's
obvious. The older ones claim that they have given up going there,
because they are afraid of being hit, or are tired of constantly
having to get off the trail to let bulldozers go by. Isn't that just
evolution -- survival of the fittest? Why should hikers, or anyone
else, have the whole park to themselves? We pay taxes, too. We have
just as much right to be there as they do. We are just as much
environmentalists as they are. We love nature! That's why we want to
ride there!

When you have spent as much on your equipment as we have, believe
me, it is very frustrating, not to have any place to use it! We
don't, of course, condone illegal trail building. However, we can
understand the frustration of people whose only sin is preferring a
different way of enjoying nature. They think that, because they are
able to purchase a piece of equipment that lets them go off-road,
the public is obligated to give them a place to use it. That's
understandable -- isn't that the American way? Aren't they just like
the pioneers?

We bulldozer racers ("BS-ers") belong in the parks just as much as
everybody else. If the HOHAs don't want us on their trails, because
we allegedly create narrow ruts, and make them difficult to walk on,
then we deserve to have our own trails, which we will gladly build
for free. There is plenty of space for everyone. If the wildlife
don't like it, they can always move! It's just survival of the
fittest. As I said, that's what evolution is all about.

We will even police our own riders, so that you won't have any
additional expenses. After all, how would you catch a renegade
bulldozer racer? Your rangers would also need to drive bulldozers,
increasing the wear and tear on the trails. We can do that for you.
How about it? There are more and more of us every day. And we vote.

Sincerely,

Michael J.
Vandeman, Ph.D.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you
are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande




Mike, this horse is long since dead. You post this crap a couple of
times a year. Find a new drum to beat

At least I said something. You said NOTHING.

I will put it in simpler language for you, so that you can understand.

"Quit posting the same stuff over and over."





===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you
are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...

At least I said something. You said NOTHING.


The point is, you said nothing first.

Jeff Strickland wrote:

"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...


At least I said something. You said NOTHING.



The point is, you said nothing first.


He may or may not have said something. What is beyond doubt in the
simplest Google search: he's said or not said the very same [no]thing at
nauseating length and nauseatingly short intervals for nearly ten years now.

PH

"pmhilton" wrote in message
...
Jeff Strickland wrote:

"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...


At least I said something. You said NOTHING.



The point is, you said nothing first.


He may or may not have said something. What is beyond doubt in the
simplest Google search: he's said or not said the very same [no]thing at
nauseating length and nauseatingly short intervals for nearly ten years
now.

PH

Mr. Vandeman is the greatest genius ever to visit these confounded forums.
What does it matter how many times he says something if it is true and
significant. Further, it is brand new to those who have never heard it
before.

Keep up the good work Mike! These idiotic mountain bikers, who as you say
are all liars and scoundrels, need to have pounded into them your trenchant
observations on the deleterious effects of what they unthinkingly do to the
environment by riding their blasted bikes on MY sacred hiking trails. As a
Great Saint, I have reserved a special place in Hell for them.

Regards,

Ed Dolan the Great - Minnesota
aka
Saint Edward the Great - Order of the Perpetual Sorrows - Minnesota