Mountain Bikers Really HATE Hearing the Truth!

Careful! Mountain bikers really HATE hearing the truth....

Mike


From: Linda
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 07:31:57 -0800
Subject: Harvey Manning/Trainers

I find it counterproductive that some members here seem to participate
in
the very "attitude poisoning" you're talking about in regards to the
hikers
and wilderness preservationists. To me, spewing such nastiness makes
me
leery of joining any advocacy efforts if those are the attitudes of
the primary representatives.

On 11/16/06, art bbtc wrote:

Yeah the guy was gunning for mt bikers but give him the credit he is
due. From everything I've heard and read in the past he IS the reason
why there is a Cougar Mt (and Squak)

Yes, Harvey accomplished a lot in regards to preservation and trails
and I'll give him some credit for that. But, think how much more he
could have accomplished if instead of alienating other user groups
with his selfish and hateful agenda he had sought to work together.

We (BBTC) spent the 80's trying to stem the loss of trail access; we
spent the 90's trying to stay even and rebuild our image; we've spent
most of this decade struggling to build new trail.

What if Harvey had acknowledged that this new user group was just as
passionate as he to preserve nature and given us a hand up rather than
demonizing us with his endless vitriolic diatribes?

How much more could user groups have worked together without his
attitude poisoning the spirit of cooperation? How many more encounters
on the trails would have been pleasant interactions instead of a
scowl? And how many more trails would be enabling the next generation
of mountain bikers to develop a love for our mountains and trees and a
passion to preserve that experience.

Yes Harvey accomplished a lot, but when a full accounting is made he
comes up way short.

-Art
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...
Careful! Mountain bikers really HATE hearing the truth....

Mike


From: Linda
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 07:31:57 -0800
Subject: Harvey Manning/Trainers

I find it counterproductive that some members here seem to participate
in
the very "attitude poisoning" you're talking about in regards to the
hikers
and wilderness preservationists. To me, spewing such nastiness makes
me
leery of joining any advocacy efforts if those are the attitudes of
the primary representatives.

On 11/16/06, art bbtc wrote:

Yeah the guy was gunning for mt bikers but give him the credit he is
due. From everything I've heard and read in the past he IS the reason
why there is a Cougar Mt (and Squak)

Yes, Harvey accomplished a lot in regards to preservation and trails
and I'll give him some credit for that. But, think how much more he
could have accomplished if instead of alienating other user groups
with his selfish and hateful agenda he had sought to work together.

We (BBTC) spent the 80's trying to stem the loss of trail access; we
spent the 90's trying to stay even and rebuild our image; we've spent
most of this decade struggling to build new trail.

What if Harvey had acknowledged that this new user group was just as
passionate as he to preserve nature and given us a hand up rather than
demonizing us with his endless vitriolic diatribes?

How much more could user groups have worked together without his
attitude poisoning the spirit of cooperation? How many more encounters
on the trails would have been pleasant interactions instead of a
scowl? And how many more trails would be enabling the next generation
of mountain bikers to develop a love for our mountains and trees and a
passion to preserve that experience.

Yes Harvey accomplished a lot, but when a full accounting is made he
comes up way short.

-Art
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are
fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Linda seems to be talking about YOU.

"attitude poisoning" - Check
"spewing nastiness" - Check

IT IS you she's talking about. Foot, shot I think.

On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 11:43:07 GMT, "Andy H"
wrote:


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
.. .
Careful! Mountain bikers really HATE hearing the truth....

Mike


From: Linda
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 07:31:57 -0800
Subject: Harvey Manning/Trainers

I find it counterproductive that some members here seem to participate
in
the very "attitude poisoning" you're talking about in regards to the
hikers
and wilderness preservationists. To me, spewing such nastiness makes
me
leery of joining any advocacy efforts if those are the attitudes of
the primary representatives.

On 11/16/06, art bbtc wrote:

Yeah the guy was gunning for mt bikers but give him the credit he is
due. From everything I've heard and read in the past he IS the reason
why there is a Cougar Mt (and Squak)

Yes, Harvey accomplished a lot in regards to preservation and trails
and I'll give him some credit for that. But, think how much more he
could have accomplished if instead of alienating other user groups
with his selfish and hateful agenda he had sought to work together.

We (BBTC) spent the 80's trying to stem the loss of trail access; we
spent the 90's trying to stay even and rebuild our image; we've spent
most of this decade struggling to build new trail.

What if Harvey had acknowledged that this new user group was just as
passionate as he to preserve nature and given us a hand up rather than
demonizing us with his endless vitriolic diatribes?

How much more could user groups have worked together without his
attitude poisoning the spirit of cooperation? How many more encounters
on the trails would have been pleasant interactions instead of a
scowl? And how many more trails would be enabling the next generation
of mountain bikers to develop a love for our mountains and trees and a
passion to preserve that experience.

Yes Harvey accomplished a lot, but when a full accounting is made he
comes up way short.

-Art
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are
fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Linda seems to be talking about YOU.

"attitude poisoning" - Check
"spewing nastiness" - Check

IT IS you she's talking about. Foot, shot I think.

BS. I just tell the truth. That's neither positive nor negative. It
just IS.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 11:43:07 GMT, "Andy H"
wrote:


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
. ..
Careful! Mountain bikers really HATE hearing the truth....

Mike


From: Linda
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 07:31:57 -0800
Subject: Harvey Manning/Trainers

I find it counterproductive that some members here seem to participate
in
the very "attitude poisoning" you're talking about in regards to the
hikers
and wilderness preservationists. To me, spewing such nastiness makes
me
leery of joining any advocacy efforts if those are the attitudes of
the primary representatives.

On 11/16/06, art bbtc wrote:

Yeah the guy was gunning for mt bikers but give him the credit he is
due. From everything I've heard and read in the past he IS the reason
why there is a Cougar Mt (and Squak)

Yes, Harvey accomplished a lot in regards to preservation and trails
and I'll give him some credit for that. But, think how much more he
could have accomplished if instead of alienating other user groups
with his selfish and hateful agenda he had sought to work together.

We (BBTC) spent the 80's trying to stem the loss of trail access; we
spent the 90's trying to stay even and rebuild our image; we've spent
most of this decade struggling to build new trail.

What if Harvey had acknowledged that this new user group was just as
passionate as he to preserve nature and given us a hand up rather than
demonizing us with his endless vitriolic diatribes?

How much more could user groups have worked together without his
attitude poisoning the spirit of cooperation? How many more encounters
on the trails would have been pleasant interactions instead of a
scowl? And how many more trails would be enabling the next generation
of mountain bikers to develop a love for our mountains and trees and a
passion to preserve that experience.

Yes Harvey accomplished a lot, but when a full accounting is made he
comes up way short.

-Art
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are
fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Linda seems to be talking about YOU.

"attitude poisoning" - Check
"spewing nastiness" - Check

IT IS you she's talking about. Foot, shot I think.

BS. I just tell the truth. That's neither positive nor negative. It
just IS.

BS yourself, you wouldn't know the truth if it smacked you in the face,
you're so full of **** and anger it makes me wonder what happened in your
past, where you abused as a child?

You seriously need therapy for that anger projection thing you got going on,
but I feel as you fade into your later years that it's probably too late for
it to do any good.


===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are
fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

I've already proven you to be a LIAR, which means that your statement below
is a LIE.

I see you also publish photographs illegally, like those watermarked ones on
your website. Not only do you spread lies and totally inaccurate
information, you break the law in order to do so.

You're a legend in your own mind.


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...
BS. I just tell the truth. That's neither positive nor negative. It
just IS.

On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 17:50:52 GMT, "Andy H"
wrote:


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 11:43:07 GMT, "Andy H"
wrote:


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...
Careful! Mountain bikers really HATE hearing the truth....

Mike


From: Linda
Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 07:31:57 -0800
Subject: Harvey Manning/Trainers

I find it counterproductive that some members here seem to participate
in
the very "attitude poisoning" you're talking about in regards to the
hikers
and wilderness preservationists. To me, spewing such nastiness makes
me
leery of joining any advocacy efforts if those are the attitudes of
the primary representatives.

On 11/16/06, art bbtc wrote:

Yeah the guy was gunning for mt bikers but give him the credit he is
due. From everything I've heard and read in the past he IS the reason
why there is a Cougar Mt (and Squak)

Yes, Harvey accomplished a lot in regards to preservation and trails
and I'll give him some credit for that. But, think how much more he
could have accomplished if instead of alienating other user groups
with his selfish and hateful agenda he had sought to work together.

We (BBTC) spent the 80's trying to stem the loss of trail access; we
spent the 90's trying to stay even and rebuild our image; we've spent
most of this decade struggling to build new trail.

What if Harvey had acknowledged that this new user group was just as
passionate as he to preserve nature and given us a hand up rather than
demonizing us with his endless vitriolic diatribes?

How much more could user groups have worked together without his
attitude poisoning the spirit of cooperation? How many more encounters
on the trails would have been pleasant interactions instead of a
scowl? And how many more trails would be enabling the next generation
of mountain bikers to develop a love for our mountains and trees and a
passion to preserve that experience.

Yes Harvey accomplished a lot, but when a full accounting is made he
comes up way short.

-Art
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are
fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Linda seems to be talking about YOU.

"attitude poisoning" - Check
"spewing nastiness" - Check

IT IS you she's talking about. Foot, shot I think.

BS. I just tell the truth. That's neither positive nor negative. It
just IS.

BS yourself, you wouldn't know the truth if it smacked you in the face,
you're so full of **** and anger it makes me wonder what happened in your
past, where you abused as a child?

You seriously need therapy for that anger projection thing you got going on,
but I feel as you fade into your later years that it's probably too late for
it to do any good.

Anger is the only appropriate response to the destruction of the
environment.

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are
fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 23:27:35 GMT, "Roberto Baggio"
wrote:

I've already proven you to be a LIAR, which means that your statement below
is a LIE.

I see you also publish photographs illegally, like those watermarked ones on
your website.

That's a LIE. Look up "fair use" under copyright law. I have a right
to post copyrighted material in order to expose unlawful abuses of the
environment. So does everyone. You just don't want your abuses made
public! TOUGH!

Not only do you spread lies and totally inaccurate
information, you break the law in order to do so.

You're a legend in your own mind.


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
.. .
BS. I just tell the truth. That's neither positive nor negative. It
just IS.

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

"The distinction between "fair use" and infringement may be unclear and not
easily defined. There is no specific number of words, lines, or notes that
may safely be taken without permission.
Acknowledging the source of the copyrighted material does not substitute for
obtaining permission.
Copyright protects the particular way an author has expressed himself; it
does not extend to any ideas, systems, or factual information conveyed in
the work.
The safest course is always to get permission from the copyright owner
before using copyrighted material."


Don't skirt these questions:
- did you ask for permission to use the copyrighted material?
- has the owner asked you to remove the material, and have you complied?

By the way, what is depicted is NOT unlawful; your argument for the use of
the copyrighted material is invalid.


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 23:27:35 GMT, "Roberto Baggio"
wrote:

I've already proven you to be a LIAR, which means that your statement
below
is a LIE.

I see you also publish photographs illegally, like those watermarked ones
on
your website.

That's a LIE. Look up "fair use" under copyright law. I have a right
to post copyrighted material in order to expose unlawful abuses of the
environment. So does everyone. You just don't want your abuses made
public! TOUGH!

Not only do you spread lies and totally inaccurate
information, you break the law in order to do so.

You're a legend in your own mind.


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
. ..
BS. I just tell the truth. That's neither positive nor negative. It
just IS.

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are
fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

"Andy H" wrote in message ...

All of Mikey's useless drivel snipped...
BS yourself, you wouldn't know the truth if it smacked you in the face,
you're so full of **** and anger it makes me wonder what happened in your
past, where you abused as a child?

He's not full of anger Andy, he's playing you for a reaction like a kid poking a bug.
He doesn't give a crap for the environment or wildlife or he would be directing his
considerable efforts in a direction where they might actually accomplish something.
Instead he gets his jollys from annoying and namecalling.
As you've seen a reasoned response, logical, annotated, factual is a waste of time.
He's like a child making prank calls when Mommy and Daddy aren't home.
He's only interested in getting a response so he can start calling names.


You seriously need therapy for that anger projection thing you got going on,
but I feel as you fade into your later years that it's probably too late for
it to do any good.



He loses when his posts get ZERO response and sit alone and ignored between other threads.
That's the only way to defeat a troll. Like Tinkerbelle, when no one believes in him anymore
he will wither and die.

If you must repond to him, please delete his stupid diatribe. It's criminal to consider
how many servers are necessary for Google to preserve his nonsense because people
duplicate his entire post to respond.

On Wed, 22 Nov 2006 00:17:10 GMT, "Roberto Baggio"
wrote:

"The distinction between "fair use" and infringement may be unclear and not
easily defined. There is no specific number of words, lines, or notes that
may safely be taken without permission.
Acknowledging the source of the copyrighted material does not substitute for
obtaining permission.
Copyright protects the particular way an author has expressed himself; it
does not extend to any ideas, systems, or factual information conveyed in
the work.
The safest course is always to get permission from the copyright owner
before using copyrighted material."


Don't skirt these questions:
- did you ask for permission to use the copyrighted material?

I don't know if it's copyrighted. Fair use gives me the right to use
it.

- has the owner asked you to remove the material, and have you complied?

I have no idea who the owner is, nor do you.

By the way, what is depicted is NOT unlawful; your argument for the use of
the copyrighted material is invalid.


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 23:27:35 GMT, "Roberto Baggio"
wrote:

I've already proven you to be a LIAR, which means that your statement
below
is a LIE.

I see you also publish photographs illegally, like those watermarked ones
on
your website.

That's a LIE. Look up "fair use" under copyright law. I have a right
to post copyrighted material in order to expose unlawful abuses of the
environment. So does everyone. You just don't want your abuses made
public! TOUGH!

Not only do you spread lies and totally inaccurate
information, you break the law in order to do so.

You're a legend in your own mind.


"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...
BS. I just tell the truth. That's neither positive nor negative. It
just IS.

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are
fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande