Where is the Attempted Murder Charge?

On Jun 16, 9:43 pm, AMuzi wrote:
Jay Beattie wrote:
snip
Except that jurors don't particularly like bicyclists.
Dan O wrote:
Jurors are supposed to be a cross section of society, right? Seems to
me a lot of folks I encounter don't have a clue about bicycles and the
law. Even if they do get boned up on the applicable law, they can't
begin to know what it is to Ride Bike.
snip
AMuzi wrote:
That way lies madness.
What's the end of it? Special juries of crackheads, of
big-block V8 owners, of compulsive texters or of sociopaths?
Dan O wrote:
I'm not suggesting stacked juries. - no way. Only observe that a
representative cross section of (US) society will not usually be
capable of sympathy for bicyclists. One would hope for
reasonableness, but I'd also like to see more of it out on the road.

A representative cross section doesn't always show mercy to
axe murderers either. But sometimes they do. Heck,
Blagojevich had a hung jury on all but one count last year
and may well get the deadlock free pass again this week.

I think juries ought to be the next 12 people on the voters'
list, period. Hyperselection has not proved to be any better
than randomness.


Absolutely. Quite right. (I hope that I'm not too misunderstood.)
I'm not even asking for sympathy (actually don't anticipate needing it
from any jury). Was only observing the circumstances behind Jay's
observation about jury sympathies. I'm just hoping for reasonableness
(but know better than to hold my breath waiting for it :-)

I just had a conversation with somebody moments ago, who said he was
ticked off because there were traffic cones being set up for some
organized bike ride, and he doesn't like lots of bicycles in the road
(presumably because they "get in his way"). Initially I went along
and mentioned how they ride abreast and ignore traffic. He mentioned
them blowing stops. I told him I must blow 20 stops a day every day.
He thought that was just terrible - that I should "follow the rules".
I told him I don't take anybody's right-of-way or endanger anybody -
that I'm acutely attuned to what's going on. He told me it's the same
for people in cars. I told him about the bicyclist's perceptive
advantage, and the relative risk of harm to others (he *sort* of
acknowledged that point). I told him how I leave my kitchen door at
5:00 AM in a tiny town where there are usually somewhere between zero
and maybe a couple of other vehicles anywhere within a half-mile, and
I can hear where they are and how fast they're going and infinitely
more other details about them than I ever need to know. I told him
how the first stop I blow is a couple blocks from my house at main st.
I ask him, "I'm supposed to stop there on my bicycle at 5:00 AM while
everybody else is still in bed?" He answers unequivocally, "Yes."
It's a little like people who think dog has all the answers, and the
answer to *everything* was carved in stone for them since time began -
it saves them the effort of trying to reason and think for
themselves.) I told him that I was by no means always right or any
more right than anyone else, but stopping my bike there on main at
5:00 AM would be just plain kooky.

snip

On Jun 17, 6:51 am, Duane Hebert wrote:
On 6/16/2011 9:39 PM, Dan O wrote:

Around here it doesn't take long to meet a cycling psychopath! we must
be somewhere between the US and GB, so say one out of every 150 cyclists
should be a psychopath. Saw one yesterday going over an overpass in
rush hour traffic on a three lane road with head phones on and popping a
wheelie with the cars all around him. Thought immediately of Dan on
drugs but he was "taking the lane" so ...

The first wheelie out of the driveway - being also a 90 degree turn -
tells me a lot about my particular balancing abilities ATM. If I
almost bite it there, I need to be careful. Completely sane behavior.

That's why I said "Dan on drugs" g

While I do mention the bjeers, I do not necessarily disclose all
relevant factors here :-)

It was the wheeljie that reminded
me of you...

I do have an affinity for them.

..., not the insane behavior. You're probably one of the saner
lurkers around here.

Sanity is an intriguing concept.

You seem to enjoy riding a bike.

That I do.

On 6/18/2011 12:17 PM, Edward Dolan wrote:
"T�m Sherm�n " wrote in message
...
On 6/17/2011 11:19 PM, Edward Dolan wrote:
[...]
It is occasionally possible to watch something halfway decent on The
History
Channel, The National Geographic Channel and PBS. Everything else is
****!

Nature programs are good, since you get to see the best 50 minutes or so
of 6 months or a year of someone lugging a camera around in the field.

Even so, I do not like to see animals fornicating any better than I like to
see humans fornicating. Also, I do not like to see animals stalking, killing
and eating other animals any more than I enjoy visiting a slaughter plant
and entering restaurants.

Life can be brutal. Humans should have evolved beyond this, but the
psychopaths and sociopaths tend to rise to positions of power, and abuse
the remaining population. It should also be noted that capitalism is
also inherently brutal.

The willingness and ability of the masses to understand what their best
interests are and how to achieve them are sorely missing.

Has it ever occured to you that nature is beastly? Where the Hell is God in
all this? I don't see Him! How can my morality be superior to His?

I thought Mr. Ed Dolan did not believe in a sky god?

A truly edifying sight for all you nature lovers is to see a pack of wolves
eating a live deer. It this really the best of all possible worlds?

Stop believing in a sky god, and moral clarity appears.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

On 6/18/2011 12:01 PM, Edward Dolan wrote:
"T�m Sherm�n " wrote in message
...
On 6/17/2011 2:10 AM, Edward Dolan wrote:
[...]
Nope, but I do not believe that the European model is the one to follow
either.

What model does Mr. Ed Dolan believe in? King Edward Dolan the First?

I believe the caliphate would best suit liberal Dems like you. After all, it
is big centralized government writ large. I myself am looking forward to the
resurrection of the Sun King, i.e., the court of Louis XIV of Versailles.
Commoners are not fit to govern themselves since all they ever do is vote
for the government which will give them the most freebies.
[...]

The biggest handouts are those given to the already rich by government,
e.g. the Federal Reserve lending money at 0% interest, which is used to
buy government bonds that pay interest.

E.g.
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/06/07/the-real-housewives-of-wall-street/

Obama and the Democrats - whores for AIPAC (Apartheid Israel Public
Affairs Committee) and Wall Street.

Has it ever occurred to you that Obama and the Dems are simply incompetent
and do not know what the hell they are doing? Carter was a nincompoop but
Obama is totally clueless.

Obama simply takes his orders from the powers that be. He wants to see
his family safe, and to retire to the high fee speaking circuit, rather
than being a martyr. Therefore, he will *not* advocate an agenda that
he knows to right for the people.

Billionaires in the US typically pay a smaller share of their total
income
in taxes than the people gutting chickens done at the assembly line
slaughterhouse.

Those working in the meat packing plants pay very little income tax. That
is
the chief advantage of having a low income - no income tax. I should know
because I fall into that category myself. But my property taxes are
killing
me!

But Ed, your income is from renting properties you inherited from your
parents, who actually did some work in their lives.

Nope, my parents never did any work either. We Dolans know how to live on
very little income, something that you will never know how to do even if you
live to be 100. All liberal Dems know how to do is tax and spend, tax and
spend, ...

Someone did some work at some point, unless they obtained the properties
by immoral means (the usual ways of the rich, by the way).

By the way, Minnesota is playing an interesting role in the Repub
primaries.
Usually Minnesota is infested with liberals wanting to be president
(Eugene
McCarthy, Hubert Humphrey).

You forgot Mondale.

EVERYONE forgets Mondale! That is because he is so imminently forgettable.

Keep your eye on Bachmann. Even Pawlenty says a
few intelligent things from time to time although I partially blame him
for
my high property taxes.

Your high property taxes are a direct result of income tax and capital
gains tax cuts for the richest 1%.

Nope, my high property taxes are due to locally elected officials who have
no guts for cutting spending. The god damn public schools are especially an
extravagance. I would not bother to educate commoners beyond the grade
school level. High schools could be abolished entirely. All any nation ever
needs is just an educated elite which can be quite few in number.

Your local government receives less money from the state, which receives
lesser funding from the federal budget, as a direct result of lower
taxes for the super-rich. This is the true meaning of "trickle-down".

Tom Sherman is a commoner; Ed Dolan is an aristocrat. This has nothing to do
with income; it has everything to do with culture.

Ed Dolan is a troll.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

Dan O wrote:
On Jun 16, 9:43 pm, AMuzi wrote:
Jay Beattie wrote:
snip
Except that jurors don't particularly like bicyclists.
Dan O wrote:
Jurors are supposed to be a cross section of society, right? Seems to
me a lot of folks I encounter don't have a clue about bicycles and the
law. Even if they do get boned up on the applicable law, they can't
begin to know what it is to Ride Bike.
snip
AMuzi wrote:
That way lies madness.
What's the end of it? Special juries of crackheads, of
big-block V8 owners, of compulsive texters or of sociopaths?
Dan O wrote:
I'm not suggesting stacked juries. - no way. Only observe that a
representative cross section of (US) society will not usually be
capable of sympathy for bicyclists. One would hope for
reasonableness, but I'd also like to see more of it out on the road.
A representative cross section doesn't always show mercy to
axe murderers either. But sometimes they do. Heck,
Blagojevich had a hung jury on all but one count last year
and may well get the deadlock free pass again this week.

I think juries ought to be the next 12 people on the voters'
list, period. Hyperselection has not proved to be any better
than randomness.


Absolutely. Quite right. (I hope that I'm not too misunderstood.)
I'm not even asking for sympathy (actually don't anticipate needing it
from any jury). Was only observing the circumstances behind Jay's
observation about jury sympathies. I'm just hoping for reasonableness
(but know better than to hold my breath waiting for it :-)

I just had a conversation with somebody moments ago, who said he was
ticked off because there were traffic cones being set up for some
organized bike ride, and he doesn't like lots of bicycles in the road
(presumably because they "get in his way"). Initially I went along
and mentioned how they ride abreast and ignore traffic. He mentioned
them blowing stops. I told him I must blow 20 stops a day every day.
He thought that was just terrible - that I should "follow the rules".
I told him I don't take anybody's right-of-way or endanger anybody -
that I'm acutely attuned to what's going on. He told me it's the same
for people in cars. I told him about the bicyclist's perceptive
advantage, and the relative risk of harm to others (he *sort* of
acknowledged that point). I told him how I leave my kitchen door at
5:00 AM in a tiny town where there are usually somewhere between zero
and maybe a couple of other vehicles anywhere within a half-mile, and
I can hear where they are and how fast they're going and infinitely
more other details about them than I ever need to know. I told him
how the first stop I blow is a couple blocks from my house at main st.
I ask him, "I'm supposed to stop there on my bicycle at 5:00 AM while
everybody else is still in bed?" He answers unequivocally, "Yes."
It's a little like people who think dog has all the answers, and the
answer to *everything* was carved in stone for them since time began -
it saves them the effort of trying to reason and think for
themselves.) I told him that I was by no means always right or any
more right than anyone else, but stopping my bike there on main at
5:00 AM would be just plain kooky.

snip


Not to be argumentative, but at about 6am I stop for red
lights and stop signs. YMMV.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

-snip-
Tºm Shermªn °_° wrote:
-snip-
Your local government receives less money from the state, which receives
lesser funding from the federal budget, as a direct result of lower
taxes for the super-rich. This is the true meaning of "trickle-down".

Good.

They mostly do evil in my name anyway.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 6/18/2011 1:31 PM, A. Muzi wrote:

Not to be argumentative, [...]

Wrong newsgroups.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

On 6/18/2011 1:32 PM, A. Muzi wrote:
-snip-
T�m Sherm�n �_� wrote:
-snip-
Your local government receives less money from the state, which
receives lesser funding from the federal budget, as a direct result of
lower taxes for the super-rich. This is the true meaning of
"trickle-down".

Good.

Even when your property taxes go up (or rents go up due to landlords
paying the higher tax)?

And you believe that when *all* taxes are combined, it is fair for
people working two low wage jobs to pay a higher marginal rate than the
500 richest USians?

They mostly do evil in my name anyway.

Like declaring war on birds and skin divers?

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

Tºm Shermªn °_° wrote:
On 6/18/2011 1:32 PM, A. Muzi wrote:
-snip-
T�m Sherm�n �_� wrote:
-snip-
Your local government receives less money from the state, which
receives lesser funding from the federal budget, as a direct result of
lower taxes for the super-rich. This is the true meaning of
"trickle-down".

Good.

Even when your property taxes go up (or rents go up due to landlords
paying the higher tax)?

And you believe that when *all* taxes are combined, it is fair for
people working two low wage jobs to pay a higher marginal rate than the
500 richest USians?

They mostly do evil in my name anyway.

Like declaring war on birds and skin divers?



That government governs best which governs least.
Less money = less trouble.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 6/18/2011 2:44 PM, A. Muzi wrote:
T�m Sherm�n �_� wrote:
On 6/18/2011 1:32 PM, A. Muzi wrote:
-snip-
T�m Sherm�n �_� wrote:
-snip-
Your local government receives less money from the state, which
receives lesser funding from the federal budget, as a direct result of
lower taxes for the super-rich. This is the true meaning of
"trickle-down".

Good.

Even when your property taxes go up (or rents go up due to landlords
paying the higher tax)?

And you believe that when *all* taxes are combined, it is fair for
people working two low wage jobs to pay a higher marginal rate than
the 500 richest USians?

They mostly do evil in my name anyway.

Like declaring war on birds and skin divers?



That government governs best which governs least.
Less money = less trouble.

Somalia should be the ideal place to live then.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.