Tactics

Johnny Twelve-Point presented by JFT wrote:
Gibby Fatton did that to a guy I know in a cat 3 race about ten years ago.

If he added an e to his surname it would be a great name for a FM.

In article
,
Carl Sundquist wrote:

On Apr 24, 8:56*pm, Michael Press wrote:
In article ,
*Carl Sundquist wrote:



Michael Press wrote:
In article ,
*Carl Sundquist wrote:

Michael Press wrote:
In article ,
*Susan Walker wrote:

Carl Sundquist wrote:
A lot of what happened needs further
clarification by Bos.
He writes in Dutch:
http://www.rabosport.nl/heldenprofie...%20Bos/107#107

My translation:
http://www.podiumcafe.com/2009/4/20/...s-is-really-ma...
Bos has much to learn. First, stop making excuses.
His account is a gold mine of material; almost every
sentence cries out for stomping.

"Keirin is notorious for its pushing and pulling, the taking of risks. "
Translation: To ride with me is to take risks. Watch your ass.

You don't view that as being taken out of context?

Context? If we are considering context, why in the name
of all that is holy does Bos drag in keirin? There is
your out of context problem. What does keirin have to do
with a bunch sprint in a road race? Why does Bos mention
putting hands on other cyclists in keirin while discussing
a road racing incident?

"I would give everything to prove that this was not my fault."
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -- Theo Bos

Alright, Theo, give up road racing.

It was a yes or no question. You don't view that as being taken out of
context?

No.

Bos "Keirin is notorious for its pushing and pulling, the taking of
risks. But do note: in those circles I am not known as a sprinter who
takes extreme risks. In Japan this even earned me my nickname. It is
not in my character."

Press "Translation: To ride with me is to take risks. Watch your ass."

Susan Walker is far better at translation than you are.

Kierin has nothing to do with it. Impey was not racing kierin.
If Bos wants to race kierin he is out of context.

--
Michael Press

On Apr 25, 10:50*am, Michael Press wrote:
In article
,
*Carl Sundquist wrote:



On Apr 24, 8:56*pm, Michael Press wrote:
In article ,
*Carl Sundquist wrote:

Michael Press wrote:
In article ,
*Carl Sundquist wrote:

Michael Press wrote:
In article ,
*Susan Walker wrote:

Carl Sundquist wrote:
A lot of what happened needs further
clarification by Bos.
He writes in Dutch:
http://www.rabosport.nl/heldenprofie...%20Bos/107#107

My translation:
http://www.podiumcafe.com/2009/4/20/...s-is-really-ma...
Bos has much to learn. First, stop making excuses.
His account is a gold mine of material; almost every
sentence cries out for stomping.

"Keirin is notorious for its pushing and pulling, the taking of risks. "
Translation: To ride with me is to take risks. Watch your ass.

You don't view that as being taken out of context?

Context? If we are considering context, why in the name
of all that is holy does Bos drag in keirin? There is
your out of context problem. What does keirin have to do
with a bunch sprint in a road race? Why does Bos mention
putting hands on other cyclists in keirin while discussing
a road racing incident?

"I would give everything to prove that this was not my fault."
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -- Theo Bos

Alright, Theo, give up road racing.

It was a yes or no question. You don't view that as being taken out of
context?

No.

Bos "Keirin is notorious for its pushing and pulling, the taking of
risks. But do note: in those circles I am not known as a sprinter who
takes extreme risks. In Japan this even earned me my nickname. It is
not in my character."

Press "Translation: To ride with me is to take risks. Watch your ass."

Susan Walker is far better at translation than you are.

Kierin has nothing to do with it. Impey was not racing kierin.
If Bos wants to race kierin he is out of context.

--
Michael Press

I'm sure Keirin racing is good experience for sprinting in a road
race. However, if you google "Keirin pushing relegated" you'll see
many pages of hits. You'll like this part: Ironically, Bos would
have been in more trouble if he had caused a similar accident in a
Keirin race. I don't know what the officials were thinking when they
didn't DQ Bos for mangling Impey.
-Paul

In article ,
Carl Sundquist wrote:

Paul G. wrote:
On Apr 23, 10:44 pm, Michael Press wrote:
In article ,
Carl Sundquist wrote:



Michael Press wrote:
In article ,
Susan Walker wrote:
Carl Sundquist wrote:
A lot of what happened needs further
clarification by Bos.
He writes in Dutch:
http://www.rabosport.nl/heldenprofie...%20Bos/107#107
My translation:
http://www.podiumcafe.com/2009/4/20/...s-is-really-ma...
Bos has much to learn. First, stop making excuses.
His account is a gold mine of material; almost every
sentence cries out for stomping.
"Keirin is notorious for its pushing and pulling, the taking of risks. "
Translation: To ride with me is to take risks. Watch your ass.
You don't view that as being taken out of context?
Context? If we are considering context, why in the name
of all that is holy does Bos drag in keirin?

He's a track guy trying to make the transition to road racing, so he's
saying pushing someone in a sprint is not unusual -in his
experience-.

This situation was not a sprint. Road (or track) sprints do not start
700-800 meters out from the finish line. But you won't see people
pushing other riders with their hands in the sprint of a keirin, either.
Heads and shoulders, yes. Hands, no.


There is
your out of context problem. What does keirin have to do
with a bunch sprint in a road race? Why does Bos mention
putting hands on other cyclists in keirin while discussing
a road racing incident?

He was boxed in during a sprint, and he reacted the way Keirin riders
often do in that situation- he pushed an opponent. I think that
answers the question of "why". My initial impression was that "road
rage" caused Bos to attack Impey with no regard for his own safety.
However, it seems clear now that Bos was attempting a ninja Keirin
move that backfired.

What are you referencing this 'ninja Keirin move" from?

"I would give everything to prove that this was not my fault."
-- Theo Bos

Alright, Theo, give up road racing.

It was clearly his fault, so he's asking the impossible. He seems to
think that because his intent wasn't malicious, it's just "bike
racing". Easy for him to say, he doesn't have the broken teeth and
fractured vertebra.
-Paul

I think it's virtually unanimous that it was his fault (Bos being the
lone possible exception). I didn't get the message from his statement
that hefelt it was just a bike racing incident.

The message of his statement is excuses. If he were a man he
would not offer excuses.

--
Michael Press

On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 20:15:30 -0700, Michael Press
wrote:

The message of his statement is excuses. If he were a man he
would not offer excuses.

'Never apologize. Its a sign of weakness.'

John Wayne

wrote:
On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 20:15:30 -0700, Michael Press
wrote:

The message of his statement is excuses. If he were a man he
would not offer excuses.

'Never apologize. Its a sign of weakness.'

John Wayne

So he never apologized for not serving during WWII?

On Mon, 27 Apr 2009 11:53:18 -0500, Carl Sundquist
wrote:

wrote:
On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 20:15:30 -0700, Michael Press
wrote:

The message of his statement is excuses. If he were a man he
would not offer excuses.

'Never apologize. Its a sign of weakness.'

John Wayne

So he never apologized for not serving during WWII?

Dunno, but I'm guessing not. It would highlight the difference between
him and that skinny other Western star who flew planes.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Michael Press wrote:
In article
,
Carl Sundquist wrote:

On Apr 24, 8:56 pm, Michael Press wrote:
In article ,
Carl Sundquist wrote:



Michael Press wrote:
In article ,
Carl Sundquist wrote:
Michael Press wrote:
In article ,
Susan Walker wrote:
Carl Sundquist wrote:
A lot of what happened needs further
clarification by Bos.
He writes in Dutch:
http://www.rabosport.nl/heldenprofie...%20Bos/107#107
My translation:
http://www.podiumcafe.com/2009/4/20/...s-is-really-ma...
Bos has much to learn. First, stop making excuses.
His account is a gold mine of material; almost every
sentence cries out for stomping.
"Keirin is notorious for its pushing and pulling, the taking of risks. "
Translation: To ride with me is to take risks. Watch your ass.
You don't view that as being taken out of context?
Context? If we are considering context, why in the name
of all that is holy does Bos drag in keirin? There is
your out of context problem. What does keirin have to do
with a bunch sprint in a road race? Why does Bos mention
putting hands on other cyclists in keirin while discussing
a road racing incident?
"I would give everything to prove that this was not my fault."
-- Theo Bos
Alright, Theo, give up road racing.
It was a yes or no question. You don't view that as being taken out of
context?
No.
Bos "Keirin is notorious for its pushing and pulling, the taking of
risks. But do note: in those circles I am not known as a sprinter who
takes extreme risks. In Japan this even earned me my nickname. It is
not in my character."

Press "Translation: To ride with me is to take risks. Watch your ass."

Susan Walker is far better at translation than you are.

Kierin has nothing to do with it. Impey was not racing kierin.
If Bos wants to race kierin he is out of context.


I was initially going to reply

dumbass,






and leave it at that, but came to the conclusion that you really don't
know what you are talking about.

First, Bos is talking about relative behaviours associated with risk
taking. That is obvious.

Second, what is a Keirin? It is a 2000 meter mass start race between 9
riders sprinting for the finish, which is pretty similar to the
situation B & I were in at the approximate time of the incident. What
Bos did would not be considered acceptable in a keirin race. And if you
think a keirin is dramatically more aggressive than the last kilometer
of a big bunch road or crit sprint, then I wonder if you've ever been at
the sharp end of a big bunch sprint.

In article ,
Carl Sundquist wrote:

Michael Press wrote:
In article
,
Carl Sundquist wrote:

On Apr 24, 8:56 pm, Michael Press wrote:
In article ,
Carl Sundquist wrote:



Michael Press wrote:
In article ,
Carl Sundquist wrote:
Michael Press wrote:
In article ,
Susan Walker wrote:
Carl Sundquist wrote:
A lot of what happened needs further
clarification by Bos.
He writes in Dutch:
http://www.rabosport.nl/heldenprofie...%20Bos/107#107
My translation:
http://www.podiumcafe.com/2009/4/20/...s-is-really-ma...
Bos has much to learn. First, stop making excuses.
His account is a gold mine of material; almost every
sentence cries out for stomping.
"Keirin is notorious for its pushing and pulling, the taking of risks. "
Translation: To ride with me is to take risks. Watch your ass.
You don't view that as being taken out of context?
Context? If we are considering context, why in the name
of all that is holy does Bos drag in keirin? There is
your out of context problem. What does keirin have to do
with a bunch sprint in a road race? Why does Bos mention
putting hands on other cyclists in keirin while discussing
a road racing incident?
"I would give everything to prove that this was not my fault."
-- Theo Bos
Alright, Theo, give up road racing.
It was a yes or no question. You don't view that as being taken out of
context?
No.
Bos "Keirin is notorious for its pushing and pulling, the taking of
risks. But do note: in those circles I am not known as a sprinter who
takes extreme risks. In Japan this even earned me my nickname. It is
not in my character."

Press "Translation: To ride with me is to take risks. Watch your ass."

Susan Walker is far better at translation than you are.

Kierin has nothing to do with it. Impey was not racing kierin.
If Bos wants to race kierin he is out of context.


I was initially going to reply

dumbass,


and leave it at that, but came to the conclusion that you really don't
know what you are talking about.

What I am talking about is the irrelevance of Bos talking about kieren.


First, Bos is talking about relative behaviours associated with risk
taking. That is obvious.

Second, what is a Keirin? It is a 2000 meter mass start race between 9
riders sprinting for the finish, which is pretty similar to the
situation B & I were in at the approximate time of the incident. What
Bos did would not be considered acceptable in a keirin race.

Then what is his point?

And if you
think a keirin is dramatically more aggressive than the last kilometer

I think that each athletic contest is equal in aggressiveness to each
other athletic contest.

of a big bunch road or crit sprint, then I wonder if you've ever been at
the sharp end of a big bunch sprint.

No, I have not.

--
Michael Press

Carl Sundquist wrote:
then I wonder if you've ever been at the sharp end of a big bunch sprint.

Michael Press wrote:
No, I have not.

With my sprinting ability I normally end up at the blunt end.