Favorite 700c/28mm slick w/folding bead?

P. Chisholm wrote:
On Mar 24, 8:08 am, landotter wrote:
On Mar 24, 5:56 am, BCDrums wrote:



On Mar 23, 10:30 pm, landotter wrote:
On Mar 23, 8:00 pm, pm wrote:
On Mar 23, 5:46 pm, BCDrums wrote:
On Mar 23, 5:57 pm, landotter wrote:
On Mar 23, 3:02 pm, BCDrums wrote: Am replacing Panaracer/Rivendell Rolly Polly tires on rear. Got the
RPs on recommendation from my LBS- I had gone in looking for Avocets.
Does anyone have a favorite 28mm that is slick, black, folding bead
(easy mount on Mavic Open Pro), and a decent ride? I had thought about
getting the Continental Gatorskins but the 28mm has a wire bead.
Panaracer Pasela is going to match visually and is likely the same
casing with a different decorative tread. Under $20 in wire, and $30+
for a folder with belting.
It has a tan sidewall, that's identical to the Rolly Polly.
Finding nice all black tires in 28mm is tougher. I've thought about
painting up some Paselas with tire paint or shoe polish. ;-) The
black Panaracers in a similar style tend to have lower thread counts.
I don't mind a tan sidewall. Is there a Pasela that is not a TG?
BC
There isn't a Pasela that's both non-TG and folding. Dunno why, I
would buy them.
The wire 28s are only 300g--for a tire with a good amount of rubber. I
like the wire bead over kevlar as it's quicker (for me) to mount.
It has always been the reverse for me. I have found wire beads
terrible to mount and remove. I can do Kevlar beads with bare hands
quickly.
Depends on what brand you get. Continental makes tires that are too
small, but IRC and Panaracer make tires the right bead size, easy on/
off with no tools. Most tires are in between, like Vredestein,
Hutchinson, WTB, and Michelin, and need a lever for that final couple
cms. No big deal.

I've never used a tool to mount any wire continental, even on slightly
large DT and Campagnolo rims.......

I had tight clearances on my Moots, bought a 28c Pasela and it was
MUCH bigger than the wire Conti Top Tour ,now called Contact in 28c.
Conti w/ Wire, onto a DT 1.2..no problem getting it on w/o tools, just
me old hands.

Peter, I was scarred for life by IRC Roadlite tires way back when-
impossible to get on or off, haven't bought wire beads since then. How
do you find mounting the Conti wire-beads on Mavic Open Pro?

Also, do you think I will be able to tell a difference between a Pasela
and the GP 4 Season, or is suppleness a myth? The only time I actually
spotted a difference in tires was when I moved from some rock-hard
Vittoria 19mm's to Michelin Supercomp 23's, which seemed, dare I say it,
supple, and more comfortable. Haven't noticed such a dramatic difference
between tires since then.

BC
Road-lit

RonSonic wrote:
On 04 May 2009 00:42:19 GMT, wrote:

Nate Nagel wrote:

http://www.probikekit.com/display.php?code=Y1094

# Continental GP 4 Season 2009 Folding Tyre 700 x 23/25/28c
I find the attraction to miniature tread patters on bicycle tires
a strange, religion, taken on faith. The defenders of the faith
mention aquaplaning or some other friction phenomena when asked
why they believe these patterns have any practical reason.
That Continental end this fetish by showing wet and dry traction
for their products, is apparently playing on the credulity of
bicyclists, or the public at large. This is similar to myriad
clever looking auto tire treads available for boutique low
profile tires.
I am not going to argue that tread does anything significant for a
contact patch as small as that of a bicycle tire, but the tread
patterns of an automobile tire are VERY important. the wider the
tire, the more important they are. (unless you LIKE
hydroplaning...)
They all hydroplane, having a flat roller effect as they rotate.
The only effective tread pattern is wide and deep circumferential
channels (a series of bicycle tires side by side). All the thin
tread forms and sipes (tiny ones that are closed when under the
load) cannot purge water at over 50MPH or so.
sure, although there's a modified form of that which is a sort of
"V" shape which pumps water off to the side as it directs it
fore/aft. These are currently popular for ultra-high-performance
car tires, and that is what came to mind when reading your post.
They do look cool, but they're also functional as well.
Interesting. Have you experienced this effect or are you assuming
this from the appearance of the tread? If you have done any tower
diving from a ten meter platform, you must be aware of how hard water
is at those speeds and that little grooves, no mater how aligned,
cannot accelerate water fast enough to prevent hydroplaning.

Three words: F1 rain tires.

I'm pretty sure those are not people subject to hype and pretty treads.

http://www.trackaddix.com/?shop=1&su...&pcview=BRI-24

http://www.trackaddix.com/images/mis...nformation.pdf

On Mar 23, 5:47*pm, BCDrums wrote:
On Mar 23, 7:15*pm, Jay Beattie wrote:

Conti Grand Prix 4 Season is a great (and expensive) black tire that
comes in a 28mm. -- Jay Beattie.

I did notice this tire, but as you say, it's about $60. Was hoping to
cheap out in the recession.

Not a shill, but try Probikekit.com. Less than $40 per tire and free
shipping. Call your credit card company first to verify what premium
they charge for non-USD charges to avoid a nasty surprise.

http://www.probikekit.com/display.php?code=Y1094

On May 2, 11:48*pm, benzzoy wrote:
On Mar 23, 5:47*pm, BCDrums wrote:

On Mar 23, 7:15*pm, Jay Beattie wrote:

Conti Grand Prix 4 Season is a great (and expensive) black tire that
comes in a 28mm. -- Jay Beattie.

I did notice this tire, but as you say, it's about $60. Was hoping to
cheap out in the recession.

Not a shill, but try Probikekit.com. *Less than $40 per tire and free
shipping. *Call your credit card company first to verify what premium
they charge for non-USD charges to avoid a nasty surprise.

http://www.probikekit.com/display.php?code=Y1094

So you missed where the OP posted yesterday, saying he'd ordered the
GP4S from PBK?

On May 2, 9:02*am, BCDrums wrote:
P. Chisholm wrote:
On Mar 24, 8:08 am, landotter wrote:
On Mar 24, 5:56 am, BCDrums wrote:

On Mar 23, 10:30 pm, landotter wrote:
On Mar 23, 8:00 pm, pm wrote:
On Mar 23, 5:46 pm, BCDrums wrote:
On Mar 23, 5:57 pm, landotter wrote:
On Mar 23, 3:02 pm, BCDrums wrote: Am replacing Panaracer/Rivendell Rolly Polly tires on rear. Got the
RPs on recommendation from my LBS- I had gone in looking for Avocets.
Does anyone have a favorite 28mm that is slick, black, folding bead
(easy mount on Mavic Open Pro), and a decent ride? I had thought about
getting the Continental Gatorskins but the 28mm has a wire bead.
Panaracer Pasela is going to match visually and is likely the same
casing with a different decorative tread. Under $20 in wire, and $30+
for a folder with belting.
It has a tan sidewall, that's identical to the Rolly Polly.
Finding nice all black tires in 28mm is tougher. I've thought about
painting up some Paselas with tire paint *or shoe polish. ;-) The
black Panaracers in a similar style tend to have lower thread counts.
I don't mind a tan sidewall. Is there a Pasela that is not a TG?
BC
There isn't a Pasela that's both non-TG and folding. Dunno why, I
would buy them.
The wire 28s are only 300g--for a tire with a good amount of rubber. I
like the wire bead over kevlar as it's quicker (for me) to mount.
It has always been the reverse for me. I have found wire beads
terrible to mount and remove. I can do Kevlar beads with bare hands
quickly.
Depends on what brand you get. Continental makes tires that are too
small, but IRC and Panaracer make tires the right bead size, easy on/
off with no tools. Most tires are in between, like *Vredestein,
Hutchinson, WTB, and Michelin, and need a lever for that final couple
cms. No big deal.

I've never used a tool to mount any wire continental, even on slightly
large DT and Campagnolo rims.......

I had tight clearances on my Moots, bought a 28c Pasela and it was
MUCH bigger than the wire Conti Top Tour ,now called Contact in 28c.
Conti w/ Wire, onto a DT 1.2..no problem getting it on w/o tools, just
me old hands.

Peter, I was scarred for life by IRC Roadlite tires way back when-
impossible to get on or off, haven't bought wire beads since then. How
do you find mounting the Conti wire-beads on Mavic Open Pro?

Easy, no problem. Just use my hands, rolling it on at the end when
it's almost on. No problem. Samo for DT, which are a little bigger
than OpenPros. Just did it yesterday with 25c Gatorskins wire onto DT
1.1 rims.

Also, do you think I will be able to tell a difference between a Pasela
and the GP 4 Season, or is suppleness a myth? The only time I actually
spotted a difference in tires was when I moved from some rock-hard
Vittoria 19mm's to Michelin Supercomp 23's, which seemed, dare I say it,
supple, and more comfortable. Haven't noticed such a dramatic difference
between tires since then.

Tried the Pasela, too big and have never used tires from that
manufacturer. We sell Conti and Vittoria, I use those.

BC
Road-lit

wrote:
http://www.probikekit.com/display.php?code=Y1094

# Continental GP 4 Season 2009 Folding Tyre 700 x 23/25/28c

I find the attraction to miniature tread patters on bicycle tires a
strange, religion, taken on faith. The defenders of the faith mention
aquaplaning or some other friction phenomena when asked why they
believe these patterns have any practical reason.

er, no they don't, they mention cogging, just like manufacturers do.



That Continental end this fetish by showing wet and dry traction for
their products, is apparently playing on the credulity of bicyclists,
or the public at large. This is similar to myriad clever looking auto
tire treads available for boutique low profile tires.

jobst, given a choice between your technical research and continental's
technical research, i'll take continental's. their state of knowledge
has not stagnated for the last 50 years.



I'm not sure who else is aware of this but Michelin seems to be ahead
of the game with their slicks:

http://tinyurl.com/cmcwzn

that's right, you /invented/ slicks, didn't you. except that not all
michelins are slicks - the "pro race 3 grip" for instance. why would
they call it "grip" if it didn't?



When Avocet ordered slicks from IRC, IRC was aghast at the idea,
although after the fact they tested RR and found slicks superior to
similar tires with patterned tread. However they seem not to have
gone to the effort of testing traction, wet and dry.

yeah, wet roads never have mud, sand, leaves, or any crap at all wash
across them. unlike your lab of course.


Meanwhile, road
motorcycle tire manufacturers have become agnostics and gone slick.

yeah, like all these:
http://www.americanmototire.com/cata...p?cPath=33_176

of course, motorcyclists are all clueless idiots and don't know when to
change tires based on seasons so they expect to ride summer "slicks" all
year long.

On May 3, 9:19*am, wrote:
http://www.probikekit.com/display.php?code=Y1094

# Continental GP 4 Season 2009 Folding Tyre 700 x 23/25/28c

I find the attraction to miniature tread patters on bicycle tires a
strange, religion, taken on faith. *The defenders of the faith mention
aquaplaning or some other friction phenomena when asked why they
believe these patterns have any practical reason.

That Continental end this fetish by showing wet and dry traction for
their products, is apparently playing on the credulity of bicyclists,
or the public at large. *This is similar to myriad clever looking auto
tire treads available for boutique low profile tires.

I'm not sure who else is aware of this but Michelin seems to be ahead
of the game with their slicks:

*http://tinyurl.com/cmcwzn

When Avocet ordered slicks from IRC, IRC was aghast at the idea,
although after the fact they tested RR and found slicks superior to
similar tires with patterned tread. *However they seem not to have
gone to the effort of testing traction, wet and dry. *Meanwhile, road
motorcycle tire manufacturers have become agnostics and gone slick.

Jobst Brandt

In your experience are 120 tpi tires much better riding than 66 tpi?

Thx

Andres

wrote:
http://www.probikekit.com/display.php?code=Y1094

# Continental GP 4 Season 2009 Folding Tyre 700 x 23/25/28c

I find the attraction to miniature tread patters on bicycle tires a
strange, religion, taken on faith. The defenders of the faith mention
aquaplaning or some other friction phenomena when asked why they
believe these patterns have any practical reason.

That Continental end this fetish by showing wet and dry traction for
their products, is apparently playing on the credulity of bicyclists,
or the public at large. This is similar to myriad clever looking auto
tire treads available for boutique low profile tires.

I am not going to argue that tread does anything significant for a
contact patch as small as that of a bicycle tire, but the tread patterns
of an automobile tire are VERY important. the wider the tire, the more
important they are. (unless you LIKE hydroplaning...)

nate

--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

wrote:
Nate Nagel wrote:

http://www.probikekit.com/display.php?code=Y1094

# Continental GP 4 Season 2009 Folding Tyre 700 x 23/25/28c

I find the attraction to miniature tread patters on bicycle tires a
strange, religion, taken on faith. The defenders of the faith
mention aquaplaning or some other friction phenomena when asked why
they believe these patterns have any practical reason.

That Continental end this fetish by showing wet and dry traction
for their products, is apparently playing on the credulity of
bicyclists, or the public at large. This is similar to myriad
clever looking auto tire treads available for boutique low profile
tires.

I am not going to argue that tread does anything significant for a
contact patch as small as that of a bicycle tire, but the tread
patterns of an automobile tire are VERY important. the wider the
tire, the more important they are. (unless you LIKE
hydroplaning...)

They all hydroplane, having a flat roller effect as they rotate. The
only effective tread pattern is wide and deep circumferential channels
(a series of bicycle tires side by side). All the thin tread forms
and sipes (tiny ones that are closed when under the load) cannot purge
water at over 50MPH or so.

sure, although there's a modified form of that which is a sort of "V"
shape which pumps water off to the side as it directs it fore/aft.
These are currently popular for ultra-high-performance car tires, and
that is what came to mind when reading your post. They do look cool,
but they're also functional as well.

nate


However, I'm talking about round cross section tires as used by motos
and bicycles. For these, and commercial air, artistic tread patterns
are useless other than to assure "the man on the street" that the
tires are for "Four Seasons" ala Continental.

Jobst Brandt


--
replace "roosters" with "cox" to reply.
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

no grooves to corn plantin' grooves is a continuum, no ?
so where's the gain point ? from enduro to knobby ?

from there fielding the pasela is easy. some like to feel fast, some
like going fast, and others want to get there damn the speed and feel.
por know knot. in the last category are riders and drivers who are
faster on stone wheels.
pasela is a feel good tire but fragile. conti goes fast and feels good
goin' FAST. Surly hands down faster than pasela. Bontrager is a good
dull tire and an excellent value for the world market.
I gotta lotta miles on these tires. tyhat's the scoop.

which end ? how do you corner ? on the front wheel diving in ? Conti
front. Rear slider ? Conti rear.
gee whiz you saved...?
two bontragers for you.