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Making America into Amsterdam



 
 
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  #1  
Old June 26th 18, 04:57 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 5,959
Default Making America into Amsterdam

Interesting article, with data, about how much the Dutch actually ride
their bikes.

https://peopleforbikes.org/blog/best...h-hardly-bike/

Turns out they average, oh, maybe a mile or two per day.

That works for them because their cities are so dense that many
destinations are less than a mile away. That comes from having cities
that were founded in medieval times. When things are more than a couple
miles away, they tend to leave the bike and use other modes.

So we can get Dutch bike mode shares if we start work on our cities
early enough. Like, back in 1400 AD or so.

--
- Frank Krygowski
Ads
  #2  
Old June 26th 18, 07:04 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Posts: 3,142
Default Making America into Amsterdam

On Tuesday, June 26, 2018 at 8:57:17 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Interesting article, with data, about how much the Dutch actually ride
their bikes.

https://peopleforbikes.org/blog/best...h-hardly-bike/

Turns out they average, oh, maybe a mile or two per day.

That works for them because their cities are so dense that many
destinations are less than a mile away. That comes from having cities
that were founded in medieval times. When things are more than a couple
miles away, they tend to leave the bike and use other modes.

So we can get Dutch bike mode shares if we start work on our cities
early enough. Like, back in 1400 AD or so.


Or the 1960s, as in NL. 25% mode share at five miles is great -- even at 9-12 miles, the percentage of trips by bike is way better than any US city. Portland's city-wide bicycle mode share is 7% -- for all trips.

City density does not explain the relative lack of cyclists in NYC, Boston, Chicago, etc. -- and other places that are flat and that have compact metropolitan areas. There are many other differences.

-- Jay Beattie.


  #3  
Old June 26th 18, 07:14 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Emanuel Berg[_2_]
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Posts: 869
Default Making America into Amsterdam

jbeattie wrote:

Or the 1960s, as in NL. 25% mode share at
five miles is great -- even at 9-12 miles,
the percentage of trips by bike is way better
than any US city. Portland's city-wide
bicycle mode share is 7% -- for all trips.

City density does not explain the relative
lack of cyclists in NYC, Boston, Chicago,
etc. -- and other places that are flat and
that have compact metropolitan areas.
There are many other differences.


Are there stats, like a list, so one can
compare countries and cities?

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573
  #4  
Old June 26th 18, 07:25 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 5,194
Default Making America into Amsterdam

On 2018-06-26 08:57, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Interesting article, with data, about how much the Dutch actually ride
their bikes.

https://peopleforbikes.org/blog/best...h-hardly-bike/


Turns out they average, oh, maybe a mile or two per day.


That was quite different when I lived in the Netherlands in the 80's.
Whenever I asked friends "Hey, want to have a few beers and a cheese
platter in the Kaaskelder?" the answer was usually "YES!". That meant
40mi round trip with the return part in the night yet everyone naturally
assumed we'd bike there. The decision was greatly helped by an almost
seemless bike path from A to Z.


That works for them because their cities are so dense that many
destinations are less than a mile away. That comes from having cities
that were founded in medieval times.



No, that comes from not having the stupid zoning laws we have. If I
needed groceries or nearly anything else I could walk. As in "just
across the street" which is, for example, where the grocery store was.
The bank was immediately next door, literally. The post office was
diagonally across the street. The next church was less than 500ft away.
And so on.


... When things are more than a couple
miles away, they tend to leave the bike and use other modes.

So we can get Dutch bike mode shares if we start work on our cities
early enough. Like, back in 1400 AD or so.


Last time I was there I had the impression cycling wasn't quite as
popular as in the 80's. New generations? Who knows.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #5  
Old June 26th 18, 09:19 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Posts: 8,247
Default Making America into Amsterdam

On 6/26/2018 11:04 AM, jbeattie wrote:

Or the 1960s, as in NL. 25% mode share at five miles is great -- even at 9-12 miles, the percentage of trips by bike is way better than any US city. Portland's city-wide bicycle mode share is 7% -- for all trips.

City density does not explain the relative lack of cyclists in NYC, Boston, Chicago, etc. -- and other places that are flat and that have compact metropolitan areas. There are many other differences.


Of course the statistic that was quoted is not true, but no surprise there!

https://www.statista.com/statistics/620201/average-biking-distance-per-person-per-day-netherlands-by-age/

There are four things that need to be necessary to increase bike share
in the U.S., and they all need to be present at the same time. You can't
do one and proclaim that it's hopeless.

1. Separated bicycle infrastructure that goes between housing centers
and job centers.

2. Security so there is no danger of theft or vandalism.

3. Financial or other encouragement

4. Shower facilities.

I recently did a bicycle/train combination trip to San Francisco for a
meeting. The meeting was at the Metropolitan Transportation Commission,
which you would think would be very pro-bicycle. In fact they just talk
the talk. Two of us were ready to leave and not attend the meeting
because of a lack of secure parking, which is vitally important in San
Francisco. When I told one of the check-in people that I was turning in
my badge and leaving she suddenly decided that we were worthy of the
lovely, two-level, indoor bicycle parking room.


  #6  
Old June 26th 18, 09:34 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Posts: 8,247
Default Making America into Amsterdam

On 6/26/2018 11:25 AM, Joerg wrote:

No, that comes from not having the stupid zoning laws we have. If I
needed groceries or nearly anything else I could walk. As in "just
across the street" which is, for example, where the grocery store was.
The bank was immediately next door, literally. The post office was
diagonally across the street. The next church was less than 500ft away.
And so on.


This feeds on itself.

We have approved numerous "Mixed-Use" developments. The businesses
struggle and don't last long. The amount of housing isn't enough to
support the businesses and the people that don't live there expect
plentiful parking to be easily available, and close, which it isn't. I
talked to a commercial real estate broker about this.

See
http://cumbelich.com/blog/the-inconvenient-truth-about-mixed-use.
"As far as trends in retail real estate development go, none during my
30-years in the industry has been more counter-productive or
government-driven than residential over retail mixed-use development (RRMU).

Pick just about any Bay Area city and you will easily identify any
number of RRMU projects that have been proposed, entitled and/or
developed over the past ten years. And with rare exception, these
projects suffer the same ills…relatively high vacancy rates,
substantially below market rents, poor credit tenancies and a high
turnover rate of the brokerage firms that try, with little success, to
lease what is un-leasable.

Don’t get me wrong – as a design concept RRMU works beautifully…in
Paris. And in Manhattan. And therein lies a big part of the problem.
City planners and city councils across Northern California have revealed
an inferiority complex to major urban markets around the world and tried
to force feed this utterly urban product type into sprawling suburbs
from Concord to Novato to San Jose. Only guess what, the most important
ingredient is missing – concentrated, massive, pedestrian populations."

One new development decided not to leave space for parking along the
road, building all the way out to the street, then asked the city to put
in limited time street parking. We declined because of the cost of
enforcement.

You chose to live in an area where it's far to everything. From my
house, in 15 minutes I can walk to three grocery stores, two drug
stores, and about 30 restaurants. By bicycle it's less than five
minutes. A house close-in was much more expensive per square foot than a
house in the distant suburbs of San Jose. We could have had a larger,
newer house for the same money. But it sure is nice to not have to drive
everywhere.

You also have the issue that, despite the astr-turf YIMBY groups, that
families with children generally want to live in single family homes.
  #7  
Old June 26th 18, 09:38 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Posts: 5,959
Default Making America into Amsterdam

On 6/26/2018 2:14 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
jbeattie wrote:

Or the 1960s, as in NL. 25% mode share at
five miles is great -- even at 9-12 miles,
the percentage of trips by bike is way better
than any US city. Portland's city-wide
bicycle mode share is 7% -- for all trips.

City density does not explain the relative
lack of cyclists in NYC, Boston, Chicago,
etc. -- and other places that are flat and
that have compact metropolitan areas.
There are many other differences.


Are there stats, like a list, so one can
compare countries and cities?


I generally start with a search at google.com Or perhaps
www.duckduckgo.com if you value your privacy.

You can try typing "bicycle mode share" in the search box. Or type some
other phrase is it sounds interesting to you.

Here's one result: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_share


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #8  
Old June 26th 18, 09:48 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,959
Default Making America into Amsterdam

On 6/26/2018 2:04 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, June 26, 2018 at 8:57:17 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
Interesting article, with data, about how much the Dutch actually ride
their bikes.

https://peopleforbikes.org/blog/best...h-hardly-bike/

Turns out they average, oh, maybe a mile or two per day.

That works for them because their cities are so dense that many
destinations are less than a mile away. That comes from having cities
that were founded in medieval times. When things are more than a couple
miles away, they tend to leave the bike and use other modes.

So we can get Dutch bike mode shares if we start work on our cities
early enough. Like, back in 1400 AD or so.


Or the 1960s, as in NL. 25% mode share at five miles is great -- even at 9-12 miles, the percentage of trips by bike is way better than any US city. Portland's city-wide bicycle mode share is 7% -- for all trips.

City density does not explain the relative lack of cyclists in NYC, Boston, Chicago, etc. -- and other places that are flat and that have compact metropolitan areas. There are many other differences.


Indeed, there are many other differences. And a look at the cities
listed at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_share shows that any city
over 7% is an extreme outlier.

I notice, though, that it lists Portland as just 3%. I don't know the
details on that survey, but IIRC the one that claimed 7% for Portland
really meant 7% of the city's legal residents said they traveled by
bike. That does not mean that 7% of the travel within city limits was by
bike. The hoards entering from the suburbs are almost all in cars.

Differences? We've been through this before, but I do think average trip
length must be important, along with terrain, weather, history, culture
and perhaps most important, local fashion.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #9  
Old June 26th 18, 10:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 9,485
Default Making America into Amsterdam

On 6/26/2018 3:48 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/26/2018 2:04 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, June 26, 2018 at 8:57:17 AM UTC-7, Frank
Krygowski wrote:
Interesting article, with data, about how much the Dutch
actually ride
their bikes.

https://peopleforbikes.org/blog/best...h-hardly-bike/


Turns out they average, oh, maybe a mile or two per day.

That works for them because their cities are so dense
that many
destinations are less than a mile away. That comes from
having cities
that were founded in medieval times. When things are more
than a couple
miles away, they tend to leave the bike and use other modes.

So we can get Dutch bike mode shares if we start work on
our cities
early enough. Like, back in 1400 AD or so.


Or the 1960s, as in NL. 25% mode share at five miles is
great -- even at 9-12 miles, the percentage of trips by
bike is way better than any US city. Portland's city-wide
bicycle mode share is 7% -- for all trips.

City density does not explain the relative lack of
cyclists in NYC, Boston, Chicago, etc. -- and other places
that are flat and that have compact metropolitan areas.
There are many other differences.


Indeed, there are many other differences. And a look at the
cities listed at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modal_share
shows that any city over 7% is an extreme outlier.

I notice, though, that it lists Portland as just 3%. I don't
know the details on that survey, but IIRC the one that
claimed 7% for Portland really meant 7% of the city's legal
residents said they traveled by bike. That does not mean
that 7% of the travel within city limits was by bike. The
hoards entering from the suburbs are almost all in cars.

Differences? We've been through this before, but I do think
average trip length must be important, along with terrain,
weather, history, culture and perhaps most important, local
fashion.



Probably just needs more friendly kiddie paths:

https://host.madison.com/wsj/news/lo...7b5df427c.html

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #10  
Old June 26th 18, 10:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
David Scheidt
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Posts: 1,241
Default Making America into Amsterdam

sms wrote:
:On 6/26/2018 11:25 AM, Joerg wrote:

: No, that comes from not having the stupid zoning laws we have. If I
: needed groceries or nearly anything else I could walk. As in "just
: across the street" which is, for example, where the grocery store was.
: The bank was immediately next door, literally. The post office was
: diagonally across the street. The next church was less than 500ft away.
: And so on.

:This feeds on itself.

:We have approved numerous "Mixed-Use" developments. The businesses
:struggle and don't last long. The amount of housing isn't enough to

Every one I've every seen has been done wrong. Not enough density.
Stupid zoning that reduces density, like requiring setbacks and
clearances, and parking. Do that, and get back to us.


--
sig 123
 




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