Campy hydraulic brakes

I just came across this;

http://www.bikeradar.com/au/road/gea...-review-51269/

The idea of hydraulic brakes isn't of great interest to me. I think the
levers are kinda ugly too.

One paragraph in the article has made me curious though.

"Because disc-specific framesets have different geometry, Campagnolo
found it needed to realign the chain rings a little further outboard and
therefore disc-specific cranksets with specific rings that aren’t
interchangeable with conventional Campagnolo rings have been created."

What is different about the frame geometry? Is the rear axle longer
like a MTB hub?

Of course the claims of extra stopping power compared to the competition
makes me suspect "advertising bull****".

--
JS

On Wed, 10 May 2017 12:32:08 +1000, James
wrote:

I just came across this;

http://www.bikeradar.com/au/road/gea...-review-51269/

The idea of hydraulic brakes isn't of great interest to me. I think the
levers are kinda ugly too.

One paragraph in the article has made me curious though.

"Because disc-specific framesets have different geometry, Campagnolo
found it needed to realign the chain rings a little further outboard and
therefore disc-specific cranksets with specific rings that aren’t
interchangeable with conventional Campagnolo rings have been created."

I don't believe, and can find no reference to, a difference in what is
usually referred to as frame geometry, i.e., tube angles, wheel base,
BB heights, trail, etc. being necessary. But I suspect that the frame
tubes that support the brake itself,(not the rotor) would need to be a
bit stronger. It might also be that the usually disk brake hub is, I
think, a 135mm hub so the width of the forks might need to be
different then the "normal" road bike.

What is different about the frame geometry? Is the rear axle longer
like a MTB hub?

Of course the claims of extra stopping power compared to the competition
makes me suspect "advertising bull****".

Unless something has changed recently stopping distance is determined
by the coefficient of friction between the tires and the road surface.
So, unless one has a truly wretched set of brakes as a comparison, it
seems illogical, at best, to claim "extra stopping power" as a feature
of disk brakes .

I am the local neighborhood "bike fixer" and we have a hoard of sub
teen savages whizzing about on department store bikes and nearly every
one of them can skid a wheel, and does frequently to show off.

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 10:32:13 PM UTC-4, James wrote:
I just came across this;

http://www.bikeradar.com/au/road/gea...-review-51269/

The idea of hydraulic brakes isn't of great interest to me. I think the
levers are kinda ugly too.

One paragraph in the article has made me curious though.

"Because disc-specific framesets have different geometry, Campagnolo
found it needed to realign the chain rings a little further outboard and
therefore disc-specific cranksets with specific rings that aren’t
interchangeable with conventional Campagnolo rings have been created."

What is different about the frame geometry? Is the rear axle longer
like a MTB hub?

Of course the claims of extra stopping power compared to the competition
makes me suspect "advertising bull****".

--
JS

Seems like something that every bicyclist will be able to buy - NOT. Plus the fact that parts will be proprietary to Campy and in some cases to that particular groupset.

Example prices for each complete disc groupset are as follows :
Potenza DB: €1,580.53 / £1,339.43 / $1,610
Chorus mechanical DB: €2,343.25 / £1,985.81 / $2,135
Record mechanical DB: €2,632.71 / £2,231.11 / $2,385
Record EPS DB: €4,063.05 / £3,443.26 / $3,835
Super Record mechanical DB: €2,878.82 / £2,439.68 / $2,610
Super Record EPS DB: €4,396.62 / £3,725.95 / $4,230

Cheers

On Wed, 10 May 2017 04:11:45 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 10:32:13 PM UTC-4, James wrote:
I just came across this;

http://www.bikeradar.com/au/road/gea...-review-51269/

The idea of hydraulic brakes isn't of great interest to me. I think the
levers are kinda ugly too.

One paragraph in the article has made me curious though.

"Because disc-specific framesets have different geometry, Campagnolo
found it needed to realign the chain rings a little further outboard and
therefore disc-specific cranksets with specific rings that aren’t
interchangeable with conventional Campagnolo rings have been created."

What is different about the frame geometry? Is the rear axle longer
like a MTB hub?

Of course the claims of extra stopping power compared to the competition
makes me suspect "advertising bull****".

--
JS

Seems like something that every bicyclist will be able to buy - NOT. Plus the fact that parts will be proprietary to Campy and in some cases to that particular groupset.

Example prices for each complete disc groupset are as follows :
Potenza DB: €1,580.53 / £1,339.43 / $1,610
Chorus mechanical DB: €2,343.25 / £1,985.81 / $2,135
Record mechanical DB: €2,632.71 / £2,231.11 / $2,385
Record EPS DB: €4,063.05 / £3,443.26 / $3,835
Super Record mechanical DB: €2,878.82 / £2,439.68 / $2,610
Super Record EPS DB: €4,396.62 / £3,725.95 / $4,230

Cheers

To be perfectly honest I suspect that those prices will be very
attractive to a certain type of individual. Can't you hear them
saying, "Oh yes, but it was so cheap. Only $1,400. Hardly anything at
all.

After all, I read that the average U.S. family owes some $14,000 on
their credit cards. An additional 10% is almost meaningless.

Just call me Mr. Cynic :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 7:32:13 PM UTC-7, James wrote:
I just came across this;

http://www.bikeradar.com/au/road/gea...-review-51269/

The idea of hydraulic brakes isn't of great interest to me. I think the
levers are kinda ugly too.

One paragraph in the article has made me curious though.

"Because disc-specific framesets have different geometry, Campagnolo
found it needed to realign the chain rings a little further outboard and
therefore disc-specific cranksets with specific rings that aren’t
interchangeable with conventional Campagnolo rings have been created."

What is different about the frame geometry? Is the rear axle longer
like a MTB hub?

Of course the claims of extra stopping power compared to the competition
makes me suspect "advertising bull****".

Hmmm. I know the Roubaix/Diverge use a proprietary "short chain stay" (SCS) technology on new models to correct chain line -- which means you're screwed if you want to use an over-the-counter rear disc wheel, but the cranks are ordinary road cranks. Other gravel and disc road bikes just use ordinary stuff. I don't see a need for a special crank for disc bikes, except to sell more product.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 10:15:24 AM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 7:32:13 PM UTC-7, James wrote:
I just came across this;

http://www.bikeradar.com/au/road/gea...-review-51269/

The idea of hydraulic brakes isn't of great interest to me. I think the
levers are kinda ugly too.

One paragraph in the article has made me curious though.

"Because disc-specific framesets have different geometry, Campagnolo
found it needed to realign the chain rings a little further outboard and
therefore disc-specific cranksets with specific rings that aren’t
interchangeable with conventional Campagnolo rings have been created."

What is different about the frame geometry? Is the rear axle longer
like a MTB hub?

Of course the claims of extra stopping power compared to the competition
makes me suspect "advertising bull****".

Hmmm. I know the Roubaix/Diverge use a proprietary "short chain stay" (SCS) technology on new models to correct chain line -- which means you're screwed if you want to use an over-the-counter rear disc wheel, but the cranks are ordinary road cranks. Other gravel and disc road bikes just use ordinary stuff. I don't see a need for a special crank for disc bikes, except to sell more product.

-- Jay Beattie.

As soon as Isee the word "proprietory" on any bicycle component I stear well clear of it. Too many times in afew years "proprietory" morphs onto "orphan".

Cheers

On 5/10/2017 2:18 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 10:15:24 AM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 7:32:13 PM UTC-7, James wrote:
I just came across this;

http://www.bikeradar.com/au/road/gea...-review-51269/

The idea of hydraulic brakes isn't of great interest to me. I think the
levers are kinda ugly too.

One paragraph in the article has made me curious though.

"Because disc-specific framesets have different geometry, Campagnolo
found it needed to realign the chain rings a little further outboard and
therefore disc-specific cranksets with specific rings that aren’t
interchangeable with conventional Campagnolo rings have been created."

What is different about the frame geometry? Is the rear axle longer
like a MTB hub?

Of course the claims of extra stopping power compared to the competition
makes me suspect "advertising bull****".

Hmmm. I know the Roubaix/Diverge use a proprietary "short chain stay" (SCS) technology on new models to correct chain line -- which means you're screwed if you want to use an over-the-counter rear disc wheel, but the cranks are ordinary road cranks. Other gravel and disc road bikes just use ordinary stuff. I don't see a need for a special crank for disc bikes, except to sell more product.

-- Jay Beattie.

As soon as Isee the word "proprietory" on any bicycle component I stear well clear of it. Too many times in afew years "proprietory" morphs onto "orphan".

Cheers


I think that you, as all of us, pick and choose on that
less-than-absolute criterion. Which aftermarket scallop-top
headset can you quickly name? Who makes compatible parts for
DuraAce AX calipers?

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 3:45:55 PM UTC-4, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/10/2017 2:18 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, May 10, 2017 at 10:15:24 AM UTC-4, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 7:32:13 PM UTC-7, James wrote:
I just came across this;

http://www.bikeradar.com/au/road/gea...-review-51269/

The idea of hydraulic brakes isn't of great interest to me. I think the
levers are kinda ugly too.

One paragraph in the article has made me curious though.

"Because disc-specific framesets have different geometry, Campagnolo
found it needed to realign the chain rings a little further outboard and
therefore disc-specific cranksets with specific rings that aren’t
interchangeable with conventional Campagnolo rings have been created."

What is different about the frame geometry? Is the rear axle longer
like a MTB hub?

Of course the claims of extra stopping power compared to the competition
makes me suspect "advertising bull****".

Hmmm. I know the Roubaix/Diverge use a proprietary "short chain stay" (SCS) technology on new models to correct chain line -- which means you're screwed if you want to use an over-the-counter rear disc wheel, but the cranks are ordinary road cranks. Other gravel and disc road bikes just use ordinary stuff. I don't see a need for a special crank for disc bikes, except to sell more product.

-- Jay Beattie.

As soon as Isee the word "proprietory" on any bicycle component I stear well clear of it. Too many times in afew years "proprietory" morphs onto "orphan".

Cheers


I think that you, as all of us, pick and choose on that
less-than-absolute criterion. Which aftermarket scallop-top
headset can you quickly name? Who makes compatible parts for
DuraAce AX calipers?

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Which is EXACTLY why I'm so leary about buying anything else that is proprietory for a bicycle. Fortunately Jay sold me a set of Dura Ace AX (600 EX/AX) headset wrenches and I was very lucky to find a bunch of NOS Dura Ace AX brake pads and a number of NOS Uniglide cassettes at a small town bicycle shop I passed one day whilst riding out in the country a goodly distance from home. THe thing is that those Dura Ace AX brake pads seem to last me for years and years of use.

Cheers

On Tuesday, May 9, 2017 at 7:32:13 PM UTC-7, James wrote:
I just came across this;

http://www.bikeradar.com/au/road/gea...-review-51269/

The idea of hydraulic brakes isn't of great interest to me. I think the
levers are kinda ugly too.

One paragraph in the article has made me curious though.

"Because disc-specific framesets have different geometry, Campagnolo
found it needed to realign the chain rings a little further outboard and
therefore disc-specific cranksets with specific rings that aren’t
interchangeable with conventional Campagnolo rings have been created."

What is different about the frame geometry? Is the rear axle longer
like a MTB hub?

Of course the claims of extra stopping power compared to the competition
makes me suspect "advertising bull****".

These things are really sucky. Because of the added braking power the normal 7 or 8mm axles are dangerous and so they place 10 mm axles that pull out from one side only while there is a fixed nut on the other side.

I have hydraulics on my xcross bike and I HATE them. They have to have the smallest diameter disk to keep from making such a bike far too sensitive to ride. Do you want to do an end-over on the pavement?

In order to partly compensate for increased braking power they give the front end more trail. And likewise they often increase the wheelbase for the same reason.

The ONLY good point about hydraulic disks is that they can stop a heavy full suspension rapidly. Though they usually need more speed and not less.

In order to get the necessary force to use such a brake, the leverage (lever motion compared to disk pad motion) is HUGE. This means that there is very small total motion and the disk pads are very thin and wear out very rapidly. Or even worse, wear out and actually spit the worn threw pad out of the actuator. This isn't a huge problem but one you always have to keep an eye on maintenance.

If you want a very nice setup it's the TRP-7.0 V-brakes. These too have a leverage problem but not one that's insurmountable and the pads last forever.. These work almost as well as disks without the sensitivity.