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#11
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spoke key wire gauge
On Wed, 31 May 2017 07:42:00 +0700, John B.
wrote: On Tue, 30 May 2017 20:14:44 +0200, Emanuel Berg wrote: AMuzi writes: It's not relevant that 14g spokes are nominally 0.080 inches. What is relevant is that standard spoke nipples for both 14g and 15g are nominally 0.130 inches on the flats. Early Japanese standard for nipples was 0.136 inches, a tighter fit wrench (very helpful for high quality builds with higher spoke tension) is 0.127 inches. How does the gauge system work and why does it get smaller with higher numbers? Is it like the "P" system for sandpapers? Not really, right? Remember that a measuring, or gage, system is simply a method of keeping track of something. In some countries a horse is measured as a number of hands high., in other countries they are so many centimeters high. Either system works perfectly well,,, for those who are failure with it. :-( for those who are familiar with it :-( The traditional top tube diameter on a bicycle was 1 inch in the U.S. and 25.4mm in Europe :-) -- Cheers, John B. |
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#12
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spoke key wire gauge
On Wed, 31 May 2017 03:21:37 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote: John B. writes: Remember that a measuring, or gage, system is simply a method of keeping track of something. In some countries a horse is measured as a number of hands high., in other countries they are so many centimeters high. Either system works perfectly well,,, for those who are failure with it. The traditional top tube diameter on a bicycle was 1 inch in the U.S. and 25.4mm in Europe :-) Well, the English system makes sense because they were the pioneers of industrialism and whatever embryo of "systematic craft" that was before it, and it is natural they used the body as the first "tool" to measure stuff. OK, so then the super-rational French who lagged just a bit behind had the advantage of seeing where all this lead, while still not having invested too much into it mentally to be unable to let it go. So their systems are better if compared as systems, but it makes sense it appeared not as the first attempt. "super-rational" based on 1\10,000,000 part of one half of a meridian, measurement by Delambre and Méchain, which was later found to be incorrectly measured :-) The length of the King's foot seems as logical. Here, we also have tons of units that relate to the body. Not everyone even knows of them anymore and no one works by them. It appears our "thumbs" are somewhat bigger than those in England And I've heard stories of joint Swedish-Norwegian (or Norwegian-Swedish) projects when the carpenters almost came to blows because nothing they did checked out. What had happened, the Swedish and Norwegian inches were very close to, but not entirely identical! So everyone laughed and then the carpenters were happy ever after. Probably an invented story, but doesn't seem entirely impossible. I had a English machinist work for me once who had worked for a British tank (as in war weapon) maker who told a story about his company building a tank to NATO standard drawings. After working for a month it was found that the turret wouldn't fit the body of the tank because the number of decimal places used to convert the metric measurements to inch measurements was different from one part to another. We also have an expression "det var som sjutton" which is "I'd be damned", only literally it is "that was like 17", and the origin is the 16ths of an inch. If it amounts to 17 rather than 16 something isn't right -- Cheers, John B. |
#13
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spoke key wire gauge
On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 10:17:43 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
Snipped I had a English machinist work for me once who had worked for a British tank (as in war weapon) maker who told a story about his company building a tank to NATO standard drawings. After working for a month it was found that the turret wouldn't fit the body of the tank because the number of decimal places used to convert the metric measurements to inch measurements was different from one part to another. Snipped John B. That's not too bad. How about a comercial jet aircraft running out of fuel in flight due to a imperial to metric error? http://www.nytimes.com/1983/07/30/us...on-errors.html "Published: July 30, 1983 Google+ Share Reprints Air Canada said yesterday that its Boeing 767 jet ran out of fuel in midflight last week because of two mistakes in figuring the fuel supply of the airline's first aircraft to use metric measurements. After both engines lost their power, the pilots made what is now thought to be the first successful emergency ''dead stick'' landing of a commercial jetliner. The pilots of the Ottawa-to-Edmonton flight came in over the end of the runway at Gimli, Manitoba, at an abnormally high speed of about 180 knots because the engine failure made it impossible to use the flaps to make a slower approach. But the only serious damage was a collapsed nose gear, and the only casualties among the 69 people on board were two passengers who suffered minor injuries. The captain, Robert Pearson, was helped in gauging his approach to the 6,800-foot-long strip by the fact that he has had a glider-pilot license for 10 years. Another fortunate circumstance was that the copilot, Maurice Quintal, had taken training in the Canadian Air Force at the Gimli field, which is no longer in active use except as a drag strip for automobile races." or http://mentalfloss.com/article/25845...sion-disasters Can you imagine losing $125 million thanks to a little metric system error? That’s exactly what happened in 1999 when NASA lost a Mars orbiter because one team used metric units for a calculation and the other team didn’t. Guess they didn’t learn from their previous mistake… 2. … just the year before, NASA lost equipment worth millions thanks to shoddy conversion practices. SOHO, the Solar Heliospheric Observatory, a joint project between NASA and the ESA (European Space Agency), lost all communications with Earth. After about a week of trying various things, communication was restored and everyone breathed a sigh of relief. Among the problems thought to have caused the sudden blackout? • There was an error in the spacecraft’s navigation measurements of nearly 100 km, which resulted in a much lower altitude than expected and led to the vehicle’s break-up in the atmosphere. • The conversion factor from English to Metric units was erroneously left out of the AMD files. • Interface Specification required that the impulse-bit calculations should be done using Metric Units. or In 1999, the Institute for Safe Medication Practices reported an instance where a patient had received 0.5 grams of Phenobarbital (a sedative) instead of 0.5 grains when the recommendation was misread. A grain is a unit of measure equal to about 0.065 grams… yikes. The Institute emphasized that only the metric system should be used for prescribing drugs. or An aircraft more than 30,000 pounds overweight is certainly no laughing matter. In 1994, the FAA received an anonymous tip that an American International Airways (now Kalitta Air, a cargo airline) flight had landed 15 tons heavier than it should have. The FAA investigated and discovered that the problem was in a kilogram-to-pounds conversion (or lack thereof). Cheers |
#14
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spoke key wire gauge
John B. wrote:
"super-rational" based on 1\10,000,000 part of one half of a meridian, measurement by Delambre and MĂ©chain, which was later found to be incorrectly measured :-) The length of the King's foot seems as logical. Ha! Sure, the style and self-image plays into it. In the end, I don't think either nation is more rational than the other. When the English got to the top of Everest, it was a carefully planned logistical effort under John Hunt, a military man. But when the French pioneered Annapurna, they got lost several times even in their hike to the foot of the mountain, and there they couldn't bother with to much camp work as the monsoon was coming, so basically they just went up and down I had a English machinist work for me once who had worked for a British tank (as in war weapon) maker who told a story about his company building a tank to NATO standard drawings. After working for a month it was found that the turret wouldn't fit the body of the tank because the number of decimal places used to convert the metric measurements to inch measurements was different from one part to another. Tank a lot for that story -- underground experts united http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573 |
#15
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spoke key wire gauge
On 5/30/2017 9:17 PM, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 31 May 2017 03:21:37 +0200, Emanuel Berg wrote: John B. writes: -snip gauges- I had a English machinist work for me once who had worked for a British tank (as in war weapon) maker who told a story about his company building a tank to NATO standard drawings. After working for a month it was found that the turret wouldn't fit the body of the tank because the number of decimal places used to convert the metric measurements to inch measurements was different from one part to another. Hence the well-worn quip, "Close enough for government work" -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#16
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spoke key wire gauge
On 5/30/2017 10:03 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 10:17:43 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote: Snipped I had a English machinist work for me once who had worked for a British tank (as in war weapon) maker who told a story about his company building a tank to NATO standard drawings. After working for a month it was found that the turret wouldn't fit the body of the tank because the number of decimal places used to convert the metric measurements to inch measurements was different from one part to another. Snipped John B. That's not too bad. How about a comercial jet aircraft running out of fuel in flight due to a imperial to metric error? http://www.nytimes.com/1983/07/30/us...on-errors.html "Published: July 30, 1983 Google+ Share Reprints Air Canada said yesterday that its Boeing 767 jet ran out of fuel in midflight last week because of two mistakes in figuring the fuel supply of the airline's first aircraft to use metric measurements. After both engines lost their power, the pilots made what is now thought to be the first successful emergency ''dead stick'' landing of a commercial jetliner. The pilots of the Ottawa-to-Edmonton flight came in over the end of the runway at Gimli, Manitoba, at an abnormally high speed of about 180 knots because the engine failure made it impossible to use the flaps to make a slower approach. But the only serious damage was a collapsed nose gear, and the only casualties among the 69 people on board were two passengers who suffered minor injuries. The captain, Robert Pearson, was helped in gauging his approach to the 6,800-foot-long strip by the fact that he has had a glider-pilot license for 10 years. Another fortunate circumstance was that the copilot, Maurice Quintal, had taken training in the Canadian Air Force at the Gimli field, which is no longer in active use except as a drag strip for automobile races." or http://mentalfloss.com/article/25845...sion-disasters Can you imagine losing $125 million thanks to a little metric system error? That’s exactly what happened in 1999 when NASA lost a Mars orbiter because one team used metric units for a calculation and the other team didn’t. Guess they didn’t learn from their previous mistake… 2. … just the year before, NASA lost equipment worth millions thanks to shoddy conversion practices. SOHO, the Solar Heliospheric Observatory, a joint project between NASA and the ESA (European Space Agency), lost all communications with Earth. After about a week of trying various things, communication was restored and everyone breathed a sigh of relief. Among the problems thought to have caused the sudden blackout? • There was an error in the spacecraft’s navigation measurements of nearly 100 km, which resulted in a much lower altitude than expected and led to the vehicle’s break-up in the atmosphere. • The conversion factor from English to Metric units was erroneously left out of the AMD files. • Interface Specification required that the impulse-bit calculations should be done using Metric Units. or In 1999, the Institute for Safe Medication Practices reported an instance where a patient had received 0.5 grams of Phenobarbital (a sedative) instead of 0.5 grains when the recommendation was misread. A grain is a unit of measure equal to about 0.065 grams… yikes. The Institute emphasized that only the metric system should be used for prescribing drugs. or An aircraft more than 30,000 pounds overweight is certainly no laughing matter. In 1994, the FAA received an anonymous tip that an American International Airways (now Kalitta Air, a cargo airline) flight had landed 15 tons heavier than it should have. The FAA investigated and discovered that the problem was in a kilogram-to-pounds conversion (or lack thereof). Cheers Back when 14mm pedals were as common as cockroaches, screwing one into a 9/16" aluminum crank could also be dramatic for the home mechanic. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#17
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spoke key wire gauge
"Andre Jute" wrote in message ... On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 8:08:09 PM UTC+1, Ian Field wrote: "Emanuel Berg" wrote in message ... What are the digits on the spoke key? It seems 14 and 15 are those mostly used on the bikes I see. Here is what units(1) has in /usr/share/units/definitions.units , but it seems none of those match my spoke key. (?) Some slots are very wide by the way - perhaps to be used on MC spokes? Some sports cars also have spoked wheels. Usually short very heavy gauge spokes. If you mean the Dunlop wheels found on Jaguar of a certain age, and Borrani on Maserati of the same age, those are sturdy precisely because of their short spokes. If the car is neglected, though, any corrosion in those wheels can be either expensive or lethal, I assumed everyone would get that without spelling it out - was I wrong? |
#18
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spoke key wire gauge
On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 9:42:42 PM UTC+1, Ian Field wrote:
"Andre Jute" wrote in message ... On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 8:08:09 PM UTC+1, Ian Field wrote: "Emanuel Berg" wrote in message ... What are the digits on the spoke key? It seems 14 and 15 are those mostly used on the bikes I see. Here is what units(1) has in /usr/share/units/definitions.units , but it seems none of those match my spoke key. (?) Some slots are very wide by the way - perhaps to be used on MC spokes? Some sports cars also have spoked wheels. Usually short very heavy gauge spokes. If you mean the Dunlop wheels found on Jaguar of a certain age, and Borrani on Maserati of the same age, those are sturdy precisely because of their short spokes. If the car is neglected, though, any corrosion in those wheels can be either expensive or lethal, I assumed everyone would get that without spelling it out - was I wrong? It's possible. Most cyclist are probably too young ever to have seen a real automobile wire wheel, never mind handled one. Ask Muzi what's the average age of the little English sports car masochists. -- AJ |
#19
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spoke key wire gauge
On 5/31/2017 4:03 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 9:42:42 PM UTC+1, Ian Field wrote: "Andre Jute" wrote in message ... On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 8:08:09 PM UTC+1, Ian Field wrote: "Emanuel Berg" wrote in message ... What are the digits on the spoke key? It seems 14 and 15 are those mostly used on the bikes I see. Here is what units(1) has in /usr/share/units/definitions.units , but it seems none of those match my spoke key. (?) Some slots are very wide by the way - perhaps to be used on MC spokes? Some sports cars also have spoked wheels. Usually short very heavy gauge spokes. If you mean the Dunlop wheels found on Jaguar of a certain age, and Borrani on Maserati of the same age, those are sturdy precisely because of their short spokes. If the car is neglected, though, any corrosion in those wheels can be either expensive or lethal, I assumed everyone would get that without spelling it out - was I wrong? It's possible. Most cyclist are probably too young ever to have seen a real automobile wire wheel, never mind handled one. Ask Muzi what's the average age of the little English sports car masochists. -- AJ I'm no expert but I'm considered young in that crowd. BTW wire wheels[1] are cute and retro but inefficient in so many ways besides being undependable. Add in rust, inner tubes etc and pressed steel wheels are the logical choice (modern light alloy wheels even more). [1]1965 MGB -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#20
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spoke key wire gauge
On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 3:02:34 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/31/2017 4:03 PM, Andre Jute wrote: On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 9:42:42 PM UTC+1, Ian Field wrote: "Andre Jute" wrote in message ... On Tuesday, May 30, 2017 at 8:08:09 PM UTC+1, Ian Field wrote: "Emanuel Berg" wrote in message ... What are the digits on the spoke key? It seems 14 and 15 are those mostly used on the bikes I see. Here is what units(1) has in /usr/share/units/definitions.units , but it seems none of those match my spoke key. (?) Some slots are very wide by the way - perhaps to be used on MC spokes? Some sports cars also have spoked wheels. Usually short very heavy gauge spokes. If you mean the Dunlop wheels found on Jaguar of a certain age, and Borrani on Maserati of the same age, those are sturdy precisely because of their short spokes. If the car is neglected, though, any corrosion in those wheels can be either expensive or lethal, I assumed everyone would get that without spelling it out - was I wrong? It's possible. Most cyclist are probably too young ever to have seen a real automobile wire wheel, never mind handled one. Ask Muzi what's the average age of the little English sports car masochists. -- AJ I'm no expert but I'm considered young in that crowd. BTW wire wheels[1] are cute and retro but inefficient in so many ways besides being undependable. Add in rust, inner tubes etc and pressed steel wheels are the logical choice (modern light alloy wheels even more). [1]1965 MGB -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Hmm. Jobst said that during cooling, cast wheels contract, so there is residual tension in the spokes of cast wheels. So, do you really think there is any difference? |
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