hydraulic oil

"Ned Mantei" wrote in message
news
On 02-06-17 21:33, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 9:28:13 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, June 1, 2017 at 6:34:09 PM UTC-7, Emanuel Berg wrote:
The other day I went to the gross shop to get
a plastic 1L can of oil to use on bikes.
The oil I've been using so far has been
brown-goldish but that's all I know of it.
The consistency seems comparable to what I got,
hydraulic oil, which was what the clerk
recommended, but he didn't sound 100% and
didn't know the color of it, and it is actually
transparent or white-silverish. I don't know
what to make of it but I guess I like it fine,
so far.

What are you using this oil for? Usually hydraulic oil is too thin for
any real purposes outside of an enclosed gear train such as in hydraulic
transmissions. Bicycles usually call for heavy grease though no one uses
it.

True. I use grease on bolts, bearings, etc. No oil on modern cables with
liners -- and if I felt the urge to lube a lined cable, I would use
TriFlow or some other light, PTFE lubricant. If I had a gnarly old cable
in an un-lined housing, I'd use light grease. I used to use Phil Wood
grease for my brake cables.

I usually flush brifters with WD40 and then use some light spray silicon
or PTFE lubricant -- same with derailleur pivots. The only time I use
bulk oil is on chains, and next time I'm using artisanal bees wax
lubricant with organic hydrocarbons and a hint of essential
fluorocarbons. It's called Eau de Krygowski. But first I have to use up
my little bottle of magical red oil made by Bohemians in Mesa, Arizona.
http://www.bikegallery.com/product/a...cant-10322.htm

Chain lubes are such a racket.

-- Jay Beattie.




Last year I had to buy another liter of cheap motor oil for use as a chain
lubricant (and occasionally for the freewheel in the course of back hub
service).

Most motor oils contain anti-sludging detergents - they pretty much wash off
when it rains.

"Emanuel Berg" wrote in message
...
I'm not clear what you mean with what must be
a misspelling but hydraulic fluid can ONLY
lubricate in a bath. Applying it to a surface
will not lubricate anything. Or at least not
until the first swipe of two surfaces
displaces it.

OK, no it is hydraulic oil for sure, it says so
on the can.

What oil should one use? The WD-40 and CRC 5-56
seem to do more harm than good. Likewise
CRC Bike Oil which seems to be similar to
those. Grease tho optimal isn't getting inside
without picking things apart which is a huge
effort and last resort.

Slick 50 PTFE engine oil additive is a favourite of mine. Its an outstanding
friction modifier, but doesn't weather well.

For things that ICBA taking apart - I dilute PTFE or molybdenum grease with
a volatile solvent and run it in just like oil. When the solvent evaporates,
its not quite as firm as the original grease, but its usually good enough.

"Frank Krygowski" wrote in message
news
On 6/3/2017 9:25 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jun 2017 00:57:57 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

I'm not clear what you mean with what must be
a misspelling but hydraulic fluid can ONLY
lubricate in a bath. Applying it to a surface
will not lubricate anything. Or at least not
until the first swipe of two surfaces
displaces it.

OK, no it is hydraulic oil for sure, it says so
on the can.

What oil should one use? The WD-40 and CRC 5-56
seem to do more harm than good. Likewise
CRC Bike Oil which seems to be similar to
those. Grease tho optimal isn't getting inside
without picking things apart which is a huge
effort and last resort.

For example, many single speed hubs have
a small lid where to drip in oil. Only, what
oil is that?

Without getting all scientific the correct lubricant, assuming that
lubrication is what you are thinking of, depend on two things. (1) The
load on the bearing and (2) the spacing in the baring for the
lubricant. You can, for instance, build a perfectly good bearing that
is "lubricated" with compressed air and shipyard "ways" require a
totally different lubrication because of the tremendous weight of the
ship sliding down the ways. It gets even more complicated when you get
into special lubricants such as oil for hypoid gear systems so the
easy answer is "use what the manufacturer recommends".

Shimano, for example, sells a special WB oil that they recommend for
their 3 speed rear hubs and someone writing on the Sheldon Jones site
recommended "75W gear oil" for Sturmey-Archer 3 speed hubs.

Ah! A new topic for a bicycle/religious war: What oil to use in
Sturmey-Archer 3 speeds!

Up to school leaving age - I'd never heard of anyone using anything other
than 3 in one oil, which I think may be vegetable based.

My last hub worked well with Slick 50 PTFE engine oil additive.

Any kind of grease - even during assembly, will prevent the pawls from
latching.

I'm not sure I'd bother relying on transmission fluid for lubrication, and
any kind of brake hydraulic fluid is a "seriously - don't do it".

"AMuzi" wrote in message
news
On 6/4/2017 2:22 AM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 22:08:21 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/3/2017 9:25 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 04 Jun 2017 00:57:57 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

I'm not clear what you mean with what must be
a misspelling but hydraulic fluid can ONLY
lubricate in a bath. Applying it to a surface
will not lubricate anything. Or at least not
until the first swipe of two surfaces
displaces it.

OK, no it is hydraulic oil for sure, it says so
on the can.

What oil should one use? The WD-40 and CRC 5-56
seem to do more harm than good. Likewise
CRC Bike Oil which seems to be similar to
those. Grease tho optimal isn't getting inside
without picking things apart which is a huge
effort and last resort.

For example, many single speed hubs have
a small lid where to drip in oil. Only, what
oil is that?

Without getting all scientific the correct lubricant, assuming that
lubrication is what you are thinking of, depend on two things. (1) The
load on the bearing and (2) the spacing in the baring for the
lubricant. You can, for instance, build a perfectly good bearing that
is "lubricated" with compressed air and shipyard "ways" require a
totally different lubrication because of the tremendous weight of the
ship sliding down the ways. It gets even more complicated when you get
into special lubricants such as oil for hypoid gear systems so the
easy answer is "use what the manufacturer recommends".

Shimano, for example, sells a special WB oil that they recommend for
their 3 speed rear hubs and someone writing on the Sheldon Jones site
recommended "75W gear oil" for Sturmey-Archer 3 speed hubs.

Ah! A new topic for a bicycle/religious war: What oil to use in
Sturmey-Archer 3 speeds!

I hadn't heard about using 75W oil. I've been using automatic
transmission fluid, just a few drops every once in a while. The hub
seems fine...

It is even more complex as I read that "Old Sturmey-Archer
coaster-brake 3-speeds have an oil fitting, but other hubs with a
coaster brake require a special high-temperature grease for the brake
shoes."

and even worse: "Some hubs use a different grease for the rest of the
mechanism, so the pawls don't stick.

And finally, I read in the Sturmey-Archer service manual that no
routine lubrication is required and that the hub should be greased
when overhauled.

This is probably even more complex then the helmet question that seems
essentially a simple "yes" or "no" decision.

But maybe I should have phrased that differently. Something like "I use
automatic transmission fluid, and anyone who doesn't is a know-nothing
who shouldn't be allowed to ride a Sturmey-Archer!"

P.S. The ATF is red. I'm sure that helps.

Well, we all know that red is faster so using a red lubricant will
likely make the bike much faster.
--
Cheers,

John B.


A recent post intimated that The Ancients did not understand time. Here's
a modern example of that.

Classic era [1] gearboxes use a medium weight machine oil. 90W gear lube
through sewing machine oil are acceptable. Rebuilders often grease the end
bearings before closing the gearbox which gives a slower oil drool[2] than
otherwise.

Starting near the end of the last century, Sachs and Shimano changed to a
molybdenum-rich light viscosity grease[3]. Sturmey Archer's current
incarnation quickly followed[4].

I experimented with molybdenum grease on an old SA 3-sp - I had to dilute it
heavily or the pawls let go under load.

wrote in message
...
On Saturday, June 3, 2017 at 3:58:01 PM UTC-7, Emanuel Berg wrote:

For example, many single speed hubs have
a small lid where to drip in oil. Only, what
oil is that?

THAT is where you drip in some nice cheap 30 weight motor oil. Unless you
have the manual when can advise you what they prefer.

Generally I preferred to service the hub and apply grease on re assembly.
Some had an oil hole which was usually just a hole with a spring clip
covering it - a nice easy cheat is use a syringe to pump grease in till it
oozes out the bearings.

Its a while since I've seen an oiler hole - servicing the hub is the only
way now.

The really old BB oilers have the same thread as nylon number plate screws -
handy to know if you break the flap off.

On 04/06/17 12:08, Frank Krygowski wrote:


Ah! A new topic for a bicycle/religious war: What oil to use in
Sturmey-Archer 3 speeds!

I hadn't heard about using 75W oil. I've been using automatic
transmission fluid, just a few drops every once in a while. The hub
seems fine...

But maybe I should have phrased that differently. Something like "I use
automatic transmission fluid, and anyone who doesn't is a know-nothing
who shouldn't be allowed to ride a Sturmey-Archer!"

P.S. The ATF is red. I'm sure that helps.


As SA was an English company, the deal with their gear boxes, as with
Land Rover gear boxes, is that provided the gearbox is still leaking oil
there is oil in there and all is well. Once it stops leaking oil the
damage is already done and it will be stuffed, so keep topping it up
with any oily substance that comes to hand and don't let it run out.

--
JS

On 6/2/2017 12:33 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 9:28:13 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Thursday, June 1, 2017 at 6:34:09 PM UTC-7, Emanuel Berg wrote:
The other day I went to the gross shop to get
a plastic 1L can of oil to use on bikes.
The oil I've been using so far has been
brown-goldish but that's all I know of it.
The consistency seems comparable to what I got,
hydraulic oil, which was what the clerk
recommended, but he didn't sound 100% and
didn't know the color of it, and it is actually
transparent or white-silverish. I don't know
what to make of it but I guess I like it fine,
so far.

What are you using this oil for? Usually hydraulic oil is too thin for any real purposes outside of an enclosed gear train such as in hydraulic transmissions. Bicycles usually call for heavy grease though no one uses it.

True. I use grease on bolts, bearings, etc. No oil on modern cables with liners -- and if I felt the urge to lube a lined cable, I would use TriFlow or some other light, PTFE lubricant. If I had a gnarly old cable in an un-lined housing, I'd use light grease. I used to use Phil Wood grease for my brake cables.

I usually flush brifters with WD40 and then use some light spray silicon or PTFE lubricant -- same with derailleur pivots. The only time I use bulk oil is on chains, and next time I'm using artisanal bees wax lubricant with organic hydrocarbons and a hint of essential fluorocarbons. It's called Eau de Krygowski. But first I have to use up my little bottle of magical red oil made by Bohemians in Mesa, Arizona. http://www.bikegallery.com/product/a...cant-10322.htm

Chain lubes are such a racket.

They make a big difference. If you're tired, you definitely want the
coffee-scented chain lube.
http://www.jensonusa.com/Dumonde-Tech-Cafe-Chain-Lube. I got a sample
bottle at an Interbike several years ago, and I am using it sparingly.

But seriously, the best lubricant for chains is one that actually gets
inside the links, between the surfaces that need lubricant. Too many
people spray lubricant on a chain and they have a very nice oily looking
chain, with no lubricant between the sleeves and rollers. You want a
foaming chain and cable lubricant where the foam evaporates after
carrying the lubricant inside the chain. A bunch of these are available.
Motorcycle shops usually have one available. I have not seen Eau de
Krygowski for sale anywhere.

On Sun, 4 Jun 2017 18:27:39 -0700, sms
wrote:

I have not seen Eau de
Krygowski for sale anywhere.

In French, "Eau" means "water" which doesn't make a good chain lube.
I think you mean "Huile de Krygowski".
Chain oil would be "Huile de chaîne".

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 6/4/2017 9:27 PM, sms wrote:


But seriously, the best lubricant for chains is one that actually gets
inside the links, between the surfaces that need lubricant. Too many
people spray lubricant on a chain and they have a very nice oily looking
chain, with no lubricant between the sleeves and rollers. You want a
foaming chain and cable lubricant where the foam evaporates after
carrying the lubricant inside the chain.

If you really wanted the best lubricant for your chain, you would search
out the articles that have described the results of chain lubricant
tests. Links have been posted many times. Those results prove "sms" to
be wrong once again. Specifically, wax-based lubes can work far better
than what Scharf (AKA "sms") recommends.

Here's an article that references a company that does custom lubrication
for time trial competitors.
http://www.bikeradar.com/us/news/art...iciency-35694/

And in a subsequent article, the company gives its recipe and explains
how the process can be done at home. The result is higher efficiency,
longer chain life and cleaner chain than any other method.

http://www.bikeradar.com/us/road/new...formula-36424/

My method is far simpler and faster, but conveys most of the same
benefits. Next time you're cleaning black motorcycle grease off your
chain, cogs, bike frame and clothing, you might remind yourself that
others don't have to do that, and they enjoy longer chain life as well.

--
- Frank Krygowski

use this on the chain

https://translate.google.com/transla...il-75w-90-1%2F

no grease on cables at your average temps. friction.

use a Teflon wax from Finish Line... detergent n no drag.

bearings take a synthetic ...silicone...bicycle grease ask FL

Phil Wood is more higher ambient outside temps.

there are commercial areas where greases are typed by color for example earth moving ...a guess.

individual manufacturers may grade grease by color providing a simple ID out in the field where the used tube is missing.

a question for JB on Portland's unusual political dialogue ..

wud you offer us a percentage of liberal and conservative populations among your cycling peers ..... and not peers.