Chain lube intervals 7-speed versus 10-speed

On Tuesday, June 13, 2017 at 7:50:48 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
Snipped
I don't know. I can't remember any chain that I've had that made any
noises. Even back in the days when the chain on a very old one speed
schwinn would get all rusty in the winter and I'd oil it with my Mom's
sewing machine oil.

But maybe I spend too much time on bicycle preventative maintenance
--
Cheers,

John B.

Preventative maintenance is NOT something Joerg does. Remember his post about ignoring unusual noises from his bicycles? No wonder so much of his stuff breaks.

Cheers

On Tuesday, June 13, 2017 at 5:35:50 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, June 13, 2017 at 7:50:48 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
Snipped
I don't know. I can't remember any chain that I've had that made any
noises. Even back in the days when the chain on a very old one speed
schwinn would get all rusty in the winter and I'd oil it with my Mom's
sewing machine oil.

But maybe I spend too much time on bicycle preventative maintenance
--
Cheers,

John B.

Preventative maintenance is NOT something Joerg does. Remember his post about ignoring unusual noises from his bicycles? No wonder so much of his stuff breaks.

I'm sure that your bike is totally quiet.

I ignore any sound on my bike that doesn't appear to be anything dangerous and the equipment failures have all been from things that didn't make noises before the disaster.

On 2017-06-13 06:54, wrote:
On Tuesday, June 13, 2017 at 5:35:50 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, June 13, 2017 at 7:50:48 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
Snipped
I don't know. I can't remember any chain that I've had that made
any noises. Even back in the days when the chain on a very old
one speed schwinn would get all rusty in the winter and I'd oil
it with my Mom's sewing machine oil.

But maybe I spend too much time on bicycle preventative
maintenance -- Cheers,

John B.

Preventative maintenance is NOT something Joerg does.


Baloney. You never seem to read attentively. I religiously clean and
lube my chains. Bike maintenance goes by checklist here just like the
aircraft guys do it. That includes all "mission-critical" items such as
brakes, brake pads, chains, tire pressures, shock pressures, stem
tightness, front wheel mounts, battery and so on.


... Remember his
post about ignoring unusual noises from his bicycles? No wonder so
much of his stuff breaks.

I'm sure that your bike is totally quiet.

I ignore any sound on my bike that doesn't appear to be anything
dangerous and the equipment failures have all been from things that
didn't make noises before the disaster.


Exactly. Of course I do not ignore sudden-onset noises such as the
clattering from the rear end of my MTB. Every time that happens I stop
immediately and whip out the tool pouch. Usually it's from the rear
shock that came loose. The screws for those are too wimpy.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Tuesday, June 13, 2017 at 4:50:48 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jun 2017 07:39:43 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-06-11 17:28, John B. wrote:
On Sun, 11 Jun 2017 21:05:47 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Sat, 10 Jun 2017 07:13:06 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-06-10 06:41, wrote:
On Friday, June 9, 2017 at 11:14:36 PM UTC-7, James wrote:
On 10/06/17 14:53, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 09 Jun 2017 16:15:45 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

No, not a new helmet thread :-)

Just curious. I had to use my MTB for a while even on roads
because my road bike was indisposed. After a fresh clean and
lube with White Lightning Epic Ride (it's a thin oil plus wax)
it started squealing after only 100 miles of pure asphalt
riding, no trails or dirt. The road bike delivers in excess of
200mi per lube. The difference is that the MTB uses a KMC
X10.93 10-speed chain and the road bike uses wider 7/8 speed
chains of various brands (Wippermann, Sachs-Sedis, KMC).

Why is that? Are 10-speed chains more like the princess on the
pea?

I don't know about the lube but 7 speed is 7.3 mm wide, an 8
speed 7.1 mm, a 9 speed 6.6 to 6.8 mm, a 10 speed 6.2 mm
(Shimano, Campagnolo), or maybe 10 speed (Narrow) 5.88 mm
(Campagnolo, KMC) so a 10 speed chain is about 17% wider then a
7 speed.



I guess you meant narrower :-)

What surprised me was that this makes such a difference in lube
intervals. Or maybe it's the construction of the chains?


I can't say for White lightening lube but I usually lube my
chains with either my wax mix or the corrosion preventative I
used to use, monthly and that is normally more then 200 miles on
pavement.


It probably depends on the climate, dust and route. The road bike has to
endure about 5-10% offroad or dirt roads. I often get 250mi but without
those dusty dirt roads I might get more. With the MTB as a substitute I
didn't ride dirt at all.


Recently, about 1000km for my 10s chain having been "cooked" in my
wax/oil mix, and that includes some wet weather!


A friend does the wax cooking thing. He gets slightly more miles per
lube but not a whole lot. His chains last longer though.


I use a Connex quick link that requires no tools for me to undo.

I was unaware that they had more than one method of quick releases. I
have a packet of four that has "YBN" on it. They work fine and I can
release them easily though it requires a pair of pliers.


I use the KMC missing link that comes with the chains. It requires
"tenting" the link, a piece of wood and a mallet (or small rock when on
the trail). I don't carry suitable pliers for that on rides since it
takes less than a minte to do the job without those.

The construction of bicycle chain did change some time ago but I don't
know if that was all chains or only some chains. I've got a 7 speed
chain and I'll pop a link off and look at it.

Or maybe Andrew knows.

I busted up the old 7 speed chain I have, or rather the chain I took
off the old seven speed bike. It is marked FSC-F50 which I believe
indicates that it is a 7 speed chain. It is made exactly like my 9
speed chains with the rollers supported by the "dimpled" side plates.


Maybe the 10-speed ones squeal earlier because the load-bearing surfaces
are narrower? The squealing is most pronounced under load. I can feel it
coming up when going uphill and the chain lets off a faint "wrrrt ...
wrrrt" noise with slight vibration. Later it begins to squeal. Same for
7/8-speed except their lube remains much longer.


I don't know. I can't remember any chain that I've had that made any
noises. Even back in the days when the chain on a very old one speed
schwinn would get all rusty in the winter and I'd oil it with my Mom's
sewing machine oil.

But maybe I spend too much time on bicycle preventative maintenance
--
Cheers,

John B.

Either that or too much time on newsgroups ;-)

On Tuesday, June 13, 2017 at 9:54:21 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tuesday, June 13, 2017 at 5:35:50 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

Preventative maintenance is NOT something Joerg does. Remember his post about ignoring unusual noises from his bicycles? No wonder so much of his stuff breaks.

I'm sure that your bike is totally quiet.

I ignore any sound on my bike that doesn't appear to be anything dangerous and the equipment failures have all been from things that didn't make noises before the disaster.

I'm very aware of bike noises, and I think it pays off. Example #1: Way back
in the early 1970s, on what was my wife's and my very first "long" ride out
into the boondocks, I heard an odd noise from the back of my bike but didn't
bother to check it out. Maybe a minute later, the jacket I'd strapped onto
the rear rack got sucked into the rear spokes. That taught me to use bike
bags and to not ignore noises.

(At least it was the back wheel. One guy I know had his jacket tied around
his handlebars, at least until it sucked into his front wheel. He later said
how smart he was to wear a helmet. I said it would have been smarter to
contain the jacket properly.)

Personal example #2: I've mentioned the forks breaking off our tandem at low
speed. Maybe ten seconds before they parted company with the fork crown, I
heard my front fender squeaking slightly against the tire. If I'd stopped
to investigate that, I might have spotted the crack in the forks.

- Frank Krygowski

On Tuesday, June 13, 2017 at 1:24:36 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
Snipped
Baloney. You never seem to read attentively. I religiously clean and
lube my chains. Bike maintenance goes by checklist here just like the
aircraft guys do it. That includes all "mission-critical" items such as
brakes, brake pads, chains, tire pressures, shock pressures, stem
tightness, front wheel mounts, battery and so on.

BULL****!

In another thread you stated: "On Thursday, June 8, 2017 at 12:33:59 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:

- show quoted text -

"Meantime I have a higher tolerance against bike noises. I usually just
let them be until it becomes very loud, a part gets loose or something
falls off. With this BB I think I let it go too far where other riders
started to notice but that is fixed now."

Nowhere have you mentioned that you do regular maintenance on your bike. What I and many others tink you do is ride the bike until something on it breaks and then create a kludge fix for it.

Cheers

On 2017-06-13 12:30, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, June 13, 2017 at 1:24:36 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote: Snipped
Baloney. You never seem to read attentively. I religiously clean
and lube my chains. Bike maintenance goes by checklist here just
like the aircraft guys do it. That includes all "mission-critical"
items such as brakes, brake pads, chains, tire pressures, shock
pressures, stem tightness, front wheel mounts, battery and so on.

BULL****!

In another thread you stated: "On Thursday, June 8, 2017 at 12:33:59
PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:

- show quoted text -

"Meantime I have a higher tolerance against bike noises. I usually
just let them be until it becomes very loud, a part gets loose or
something falls off. With this BB I think I let it go too far where
other riders started to notice but that is fixed now."

Nowhere have you mentioned that you do regular maintenance on your
bike. ...


That is because you have not attentively read my posts. We had numerous
chain lube discussions here where I laid in great detail out how I
maintain my chains.


What I and many others tink you do is ride the bike until
something on it breaks and then create a kludge fix for it.


Which is nonsense.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Tuesday, June 13, 2017 at 10:24:36 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-13 06:54, wrote:
On Tuesday, June 13, 2017 at 5:35:50 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, June 13, 2017 at 7:50:48 AM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
Snipped
I don't know. I can't remember any chain that I've had that made
any noises. Even back in the days when the chain on a very old
one speed schwinn would get all rusty in the winter and I'd oil
it with my Mom's sewing machine oil.

But maybe I spend too much time on bicycle preventative
maintenance -- Cheers,

John B.

Preventative maintenance is NOT something Joerg does.


Baloney. You never seem to read attentively. I religiously clean and
lube my chains. Bike maintenance goes by checklist here just like the
aircraft guys do it. That includes all "mission-critical" items such as
brakes, brake pads, chains, tire pressures, shock pressures, stem
tightness, front wheel mounts, battery and so on.


... Remember his
post about ignoring unusual noises from his bicycles? No wonder so
much of his stuff breaks.

I'm sure that your bike is totally quiet.

I ignore any sound on my bike that doesn't appear to be anything
dangerous and the equipment failures have all been from things that
didn't make noises before the disaster.


Exactly. Of course I do not ignore sudden-onset noises such as the
clattering from the rear end of my MTB. Every time that happens I stop
immediately and whip out the tool pouch. Usually it's from the rear
shock that came loose. The screws for those are too wimpy.

I finally found that odd clicking that came on hard climbs in only one gear as far as I could tell. My Delta cleat was getting so thin that the rubber walker was falling off so I replaced the cleat and the sound was gone on a damn hard climb I just did. I could have torn the crank and bottom bracket off and inspected them. I could have checked the pedals. Instead I found the problem without checklists or swearing.

On Tuesday, June 13, 2017 at 12:22:39 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Tuesday, June 13, 2017 at 9:54:21 AM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tuesday, June 13, 2017 at 5:35:50 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

Preventative maintenance is NOT something Joerg does. Remember his post about ignoring unusual noises from his bicycles? No wonder so much of his stuff breaks.

I'm sure that your bike is totally quiet.

I ignore any sound on my bike that doesn't appear to be anything dangerous and the equipment failures have all been from things that didn't make noises before the disaster.

I'm very aware of bike noises, and I think it pays off. Example #1: Way back
in the early 1970s, on what was my wife's and my very first "long" ride out
into the boondocks, I heard an odd noise from the back of my bike but didn't
bother to check it out. Maybe a minute later, the jacket I'd strapped onto
the rear rack got sucked into the rear spokes. That taught me to use bike
bags and to not ignore noises.

(At least it was the back wheel. One guy I know had his jacket tied around
his handlebars, at least until it sucked into his front wheel. He later said
how smart he was to wear a helmet. I said it would have been smarter to
contain the jacket properly.)

Personal example #2: I've mentioned the forks breaking off our tandem at low
speed. Maybe ten seconds before they parted company with the fork crown, I
heard my front fender squeaking slightly against the tire. If I'd stopped
to investigate that, I might have spotted the crack in the forks.

- Frank Krygowski

Having worked on bikes for so long I have a pretty good ear for what's important and what isn't.

On 2017-06-13 13:55, wrote:
On Tuesday, June 13, 2017 at 10:24:36 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-06-13 06:54, wrote:
On Tuesday, June 13, 2017 at 5:35:50 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot
wrote:

[...]


... Remember his post about ignoring unusual noises from his
bicycles? No wonder so much of his stuff breaks.

I'm sure that your bike is totally quiet.

I ignore any sound on my bike that doesn't appear to be anything
dangerous and the equipment failures have all been from things
that didn't make noises before the disaster.


Exactly. Of course I do not ignore sudden-onset noises such as the
clattering from the rear end of my MTB. Every time that happens I
stop immediately and whip out the tool pouch. Usually it's from the
rear shock that came loose. The screws for those are too wimpy.

I finally found that odd clicking that came on hard climbs in only
one gear as far as I could tell. My Delta cleat was getting so thin
that the rubber walker was falling off so I replaced the cleat and
the sound was gone on a damn hard climb I just did. I could have torn
the crank and bottom bracket off and inspected them. I could have
checked the pedals. Instead I found the problem without checklists or
swearing.


Some of the clicking remained after replacing the road bike BB. Comes
from the pedals. Oh well. I never have cleat pedals because then I'd
have to wear cycling shoes which I abhor. So even my road bike has ...
gasp ... MTB pedals.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/