Change in design of SRAM "powerlink"?

On Tuesday, June 13, 2017 at 11:27:20 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, June 13, 2017 at 11:47:47 PM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, June 13, 2017 at 2:09:26 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, June 13, 2017 at 1:54:39 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, June 13, 2017 at 11:58:03 AM UTC-7, Ned Mantei wrote:
A year or so ago I installed a new SRAM PC71 9-speed chain, and found
that the "powerlink" didn't easily slip to the closed position as they
had always done previously. I assumed that this was a manufacturing
problem and used an older powerlink that I had on hand. But the same
problem arose a week or so ago**, and this time I just stood on the
pedals until the link snapped into place.

A few days ago someone on this newsgroup--I forgot who--mentioned that
the links are meant to be one-time only, so not to be taken apart for
chain cleaning or the like. Could it be that this represents a change in
intended use, and that having the link fit more tightly than before is
what SRAM now wants?

**On a different bike--my chains last longer than a year.

You need to look this up on the SRAM site, but I think the 9-speed Powerlink is reusable. SRAM states that the 10/11 Powerlock are single use.. For the last couple of years at least, it's been SOP to line up the 9-speed Powerlink along the top of the chain stay and stand on the pedal to set it.

I've found that SRAM 9-sp chains have been living shorter lives over the last decade. I prefer KMC for cost and longevity, unless I can get SRAMs for some smoking deal off Nashbar or something.

By the way - I looked up the three or four different brands of masterlinks and I can't tell them apart. How can one be taken apart by hand while all the others need a pair of pliers?

I always use my Park pliers, whether its a KMC or SRAP masterlink. It's a waste of time wrestling with "tool-free" masterlinks.

-- Jay Beattie.

Agreed. I bought a plier to open and a plier to close KMC links. They were 8 euro each. Good investment. Only the connex links are always easy to open like James said. But they are expensive and only worthwhile if you take your chain off regularly in which case you need a reusable link.

SRAM 10 speed links are use-once only. But people seem to be using them multiple times anyway.

Ned Mantei wrote:
A year or so ago I installed a new SRAM PC71 9-speed chain, and found
that the "powerlink" didn't easily slip to the closed position as they
had always done previously. I assumed that this was a manufacturing
problem and used an older powerlink that I had on hand. But the same
problem arose a week or so ago**, and this time I just stood on the
pedals until the link snapped into place.

I just give the forward-facing crank a rap with the fist and the link snaps
shut.

A few days ago someone on this newsgroup--I forgot who--mentioned that
the links are meant to be one-time only, so not to be taken apart for
chain cleaning or the like. Could it be that this represents a change in
intended use, and that having the link fit more tightly than before is
what SRAM now wants?

It says on the packaging that it is for one-time use only, but I use mine
many times. For the mfgr there is no point to specify (and reliability-test)
links for repeated usage cycles. That doesn't mean it doesn't work.

robert

On Wednesday, June 14, 2017 at 8:33:05 AM UTC-7, Robert Latest wrote:
Ned Mantei wrote:
A year or so ago I installed a new SRAM PC71 9-speed chain, and found
that the "powerlink" didn't easily slip to the closed position as they
had always done previously. I assumed that this was a manufacturing
problem and used an older powerlink that I had on hand. But the same
problem arose a week or so ago**, and this time I just stood on the
pedals until the link snapped into place.

I just give the forward-facing crank a rap with the fist and the link snaps
shut.

A few days ago someone on this newsgroup--I forgot who--mentioned that
the links are meant to be one-time only, so not to be taken apart for
chain cleaning or the like. Could it be that this represents a change in
intended use, and that having the link fit more tightly than before is
what SRAM now wants?

It says on the packaging that it is for one-time use only, but I use mine
many times. For the mfgr there is no point to specify (and reliability-test)
links for repeated usage cycles. That doesn't mean it doesn't work.

robert

Thanks for this report on the practice and theory.

On 14/06/17 17:59, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 14 Jun 2017 17:01:01 +1000, James
wrote:

On 14/06/17 16:27, wrote:


Agreed. I bought a plier to open and a plier to close KMC links. They
were 8 euro each. Good investment. Only the connex links are always
easy to open like James said. But they are expensive and only
worthwhile if you take your chain off regularly in which case you
need a reusable link.


I just saw the price of an 11 speed Connex link. Nearly $30AUD! The 10
speed link is only $11, or about 3 cups of coffee.

Glad to have one less sprocket!

Given that the difference is only very slightly shorter pins logic
would have it that 11 speed should be slightly cheaper :-)


The price will likely come down with the release of 12 speed uber narrow
chains.

--
JS

On 2017-06-13 14:47, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, June 13, 2017 at 2:09:26 PM UTC-7,
wrote:
On Tuesday, June 13, 2017 at 1:54:39 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, June 13, 2017 at 11:58:03 AM UTC-7, Ned Mantei
wrote:
A year or so ago I installed a new SRAM PC71 9-speed chain, and
found that the "powerlink" didn't easily slip to the closed
position as they had always done previously. I assumed that
this was a manufacturing problem and used an older powerlink
that I had on hand. But the same problem arose a week or so
ago**, and this time I just stood on the pedals until the link
snapped into place.

A few days ago someone on this newsgroup--I forgot
who--mentioned that the links are meant to be one-time only, so
not to be taken apart for chain cleaning or the like. Could it
be that this represents a change in intended use, and that
having the link fit more tightly than before is what SRAM now
wants?

**On a different bike--my chains last longer than a year.

You need to look this up on the SRAM site, but I think the
9-speed Powerlink is reusable. SRAM states that the 10/11
Powerlock are single use. For the last couple of years at least,
it's been SOP to line up the 9-speed Powerlink along the top of
the chain stay and stand on the pedal to set it.

I've found that SRAM 9-sp chains have been living shorter lives
over the last decade. I prefer KMC for cost and longevity, unless
I can get SRAMs for some smoking deal off Nashbar or something.

By the way - I looked up the three or four different brands of
masterlinks and I can't tell them apart. How can one be taken apart
by hand while all the others need a pair of pliers?

I always use my Park pliers, whether its a KMC or SRAP masterlink.
It's a waste of time wrestling with "tool-free" masterlinks.


I just "tent up" the KMC link by moving the chain one notch over part of
the larger chain ring, set the bike with the chain ring on a piece of
wood, take a small piece of hardwood and a small hammer .. tap .. tap ..
open. It takes only seconds.

If I do not wish to keep the link as a spare for emergencies I just push
out a pin with the chain tool. Even then I could still press it out of
the removed old chain later, using a bench vise.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2017-06-14 09:59, wrote:
On Wednesday, June 14, 2017 at 8:33:05 AM UTC-7, Robert Latest wrote:
Ned Mantei wrote:
A year or so ago I installed a new SRAM PC71 9-speed chain, and found
that the "powerlink" didn't easily slip to the closed position as they
had always done previously. I assumed that this was a manufacturing
problem and used an older powerlink that I had on hand. But the same
problem arose a week or so ago**, and this time I just stood on the
pedals until the link snapped into place.

I just give the forward-facing crank a rap with the fist and the link snaps
shut.

A few days ago someone on this newsgroup--I forgot who--mentioned that
the links are meant to be one-time only, so not to be taken apart for
chain cleaning or the like. Could it be that this represents a change in
intended use, and that having the link fit more tightly than before is
what SRAM now wants?

It says on the packaging that it is for one-time use only, but I use mine
many times. For the mfgr there is no point to specify (and reliability-test)
links for repeated usage cycles. That doesn't mean it doesn't work.

robert

Thanks for this report on the practice and theory.


However, watch those things for thinning at the contact surfaces. I have
seen links that were down to half metal thickness there. It is no fun
laboring up a steep hill standing in the pedals and then suddenly the
thing snaps. Can result in a nasty crash. I remember one report of a
chain snap situation in Germany that ended fatally.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Wednesday, June 14, 2017 at 6:50:19 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
Snipped
However, watch those things for thinning at the contact surfaces. I have
seen links that were down to half metal thickness there. It is no fun
laboring up a steep hill standing in the pedals and then suddenly the
thing snaps. Can result in a nasty crash. I remember one report of a
chain snap situation in Germany that ended fatally.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Out of how many milions of those links sold there you managed to find ONE report of ONE fatality? INCREDIBLE! Was that snapped chain even the result of a failed quick-link?

Cheers

On Thu, 15 Jun 2017 08:19:04 +1000, James
wrote:

On 14/06/17 17:59, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 14 Jun 2017 17:01:01 +1000, James
wrote:

On 14/06/17 16:27, wrote:


Agreed. I bought a plier to open and a plier to close KMC links. They
were 8 euro each. Good investment. Only the connex links are always
easy to open like James said. But they are expensive and only
worthwhile if you take your chain off regularly in which case you
need a reusable link.


I just saw the price of an 11 speed Connex link. Nearly $30AUD! The 10
speed link is only $11, or about 3 cups of coffee.

Glad to have one less sprocket!

Given that the difference is only very slightly shorter pins logic
would have it that 11 speed should be slightly cheaper :-)


The price will likely come down with the release of 12 speed uber narrow
chains.

Certainly. If you compare a 9 speed link with a 11 speed link there is
little visual difference yet the 9 speed link is cheaper.

I believe that they call it "marketing" :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Wednesday, June 14, 2017 at 5:51:17 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Thu, 15 Jun 2017 08:19:04 +1000, James
wrote:

On 14/06/17 17:59, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 14 Jun 2017 17:01:01 +1000, James
wrote:

On 14/06/17 16:27, wrote:


Agreed. I bought a plier to open and a plier to close KMC links. They
were 8 euro each. Good investment. Only the connex links are always
easy to open like James said. But they are expensive and only
worthwhile if you take your chain off regularly in which case you
need a reusable link.


I just saw the price of an 11 speed Connex link. Nearly $30AUD! The 10
speed link is only $11, or about 3 cups of coffee.

Glad to have one less sprocket!

Given that the difference is only very slightly shorter pins logic
would have it that 11 speed should be slightly cheaper :-)


The price will likely come down with the release of 12 speed uber narrow
chains.

Certainly. If you compare a 9 speed link with a 11 speed link there is
little visual difference yet the 9 speed link is cheaper.

I believe that they call it "marketing" :-)

The 11 speed is narrower by a slight amount and is constructed to closer tolerances. But I use 10 speed so I don't care.

On 2017-06-14 17:01, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, June 14, 2017 at 6:50:19 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
Snipped
However, watch those things for thinning at the contact surfaces. I
have seen links that were down to half metal thickness there. It is
no fun laboring up a steep hill standing in the pedals and then
suddenly the thing snaps. Can result in a nasty crash. I remember
one report of a chain snap situation in Germany that ended
fatally.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Out of how many milions of those links sold there you managed to find
ONE report of ONE fatality? INCREDIBLE! Was that snapped chain even
the result of a failed quick-link?


a. I have seen chains that failed at the link.

b. It doesn't matter where a chain fails, the consequences are usually
the same. Sometime it's ok, sometimes it's bad.

c. The rider in Germany subsequently lost control, hit the railing of a
bridge, went over the railing and fell down into a valley. Hopefully he
died at impact and didn't have to suffer long.

All I am saying is that people should look at a link to be re-used
before doing it. If you do not understand this I can't help it.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/