Another Case of those safe CF bikes

The 2017 Tour of Flanders....

This rider was involved in a single rider crash on a city street lined with people and NO obstructions to run into.

The Bahrain Merida Pro Cycling Team rides Merida bikes, specifically the Scultura Team and Reacto Team model bikes. Both are full carbon fiber.

I have a picture but of course we cannot post pictures here. The bike broke about 5 inches above the bottom bracket on the down tube and about the same distance from the seat tube on the top tube. It appears that he was uninjured which suggests that he fell into the street lining crowd.

We know that anyone that rides a CF bike is more interested in saving a couple of lbs rather than his own safety but then that is a problem that will solve itself.

On Saturday, June 24, 2017 at 3:50:27 PM UTC-7, wrote:
The 2017 Tour of Flanders....

This rider was involved in a single rider crash on a city street lined with people and NO obstructions to run into.

The Bahrain Merida Pro Cycling Team rides Merida bikes, specifically the Scultura Team and Reacto Team model bikes. Both are full carbon fiber.

I have a picture but of course we cannot post pictures here. The bike broke about 5 inches above the bottom bracket on the down tube and about the same distance from the seat tube on the top tube. It appears that he was uninjured which suggests that he fell into the street lining crowd.

We know that anyone that rides a CF bike is more interested in saving a couple of lbs rather than his own safety but then that is a problem that will solve itself.

THE FORKS ON MY SUPERSIX BROKE!!!!!!! After my wife drove under a low overhang with my bike on the roof rack. Time for marriage counseling.

The overhang hit the saddle, ripped it off caught the post and pulled the bike out of the fork mount, ripping off the lawyer-lips and fraying the fork ends. I took it over to Ruckus Composites for repair. They won't warranty forks, so I'll be getting a new pair. Even though the frame took a huge bending load on the downtube at the seatpost, it looks fine. I'll find out from Ruckus on Monday. Waaaaaah. If it's ruined, I'll get an Emonda SL6, which are on sale right now.

I went on a ride today on my Roubaix, which is a pig in comparison. My long-time riding buddy throttled me coming home up the cemetery hill at the end of a spin through the countryside in high heat. Yes, Portland can get hot -- 98 today, 102 tomorrow.

-- Jay Beattie.

We know that anyone that rides a CF bike is more interested in saving a couple of lbs rather than his own safety
but then that is a problem that will solve itself.

Of course you are completely right. Nobody ever broke a non-CF bike
while "just riding along"...


Hmm, wait, the only time I ever had a bike break while riding it was
a steel bike with steel fork.

But that doesn't fit into your view of the world...

On Saturday, June 24, 2017 at 7:56:25 PM UTC-7, Claus Aßmann wrote:
We know that anyone that rides a CF bike is more interested in saving a couple of lbs rather than his own safety
but then that is a problem that will solve itself.

Of course you are completely right. Nobody ever broke a non-CF bike
while "just riding along"...


Hmm, wait, the only time I ever had a bike break while riding it was
a steel bike with steel fork.

But that doesn't fit into your view of the world...

With details like that who could doubt you? Must have been your Saronni with Columbus MAX tubing. Those forks are breaking every day.

On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 7:52:23 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Saturday, June 24, 2017 at 7:56:25 PM UTC-7, Claus Aßmann wrote:
We know that anyone that rides a CF bike is more interested in saving a couple of lbs rather than his own safety
but then that is a problem that will solve itself.

Of course you are completely right. Nobody ever broke a non-CF bike
while "just riding along"...


Hmm, wait, the only time I ever had a bike break while riding it was
a steel bike with steel fork.

But that doesn't fit into your view of the world...

With details like that who could doubt you? Must have been your Saronni with Columbus MAX tubing. Those forks are breaking every day.

Putting aside the potential problems with CF, bikes do break on the Tour of Flanders and Paris-Roubaix. Cobbles can kill even classic components. I remember a slide show Jock Boyer did for the SJBC in the early'80s showing guys breaking Cinelli bars and stems in the Paris Roubaix. I don't know about frames. I also don't think I would ride the lightest production bike on the market over cobbles.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Sun, 25 Jun 2017 08:14:19 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:
On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 7:52:23 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Saturday, June 24, 2017 at 7:56:25 PM UTC-7, Claus Aßmann wrote:
We know that anyone that rides a CF bike is more interested in
saving a couple of lbs rather than his own safety but then that
is a problem that will solve itself.

Of course you are completely right. Nobody ever broke a non-CF
bike while "just riding along"...


Hmm, wait, the only time I ever had a bike break while riding it
was a steel bike with steel fork.

But that doesn't fit into your view of the world...

With details like that who could doubt you? Must have been your
Saronni with Columbus MAX tubing. Those forks are breaking every day.

Putting aside the potential problems with CF, bikes do break on the
Tour of Flanders and Paris-Roubaix. Cobbles can kill even classic
components. I remember a slide show Jock Boyer did for the SJBC in the
early'80s showing guys breaking Cinelli bars and stems in the Paris
Roubaix. I don't know about frames. I also don't think I would ride
the lightest production bike on the market over cobbles.

Any bike can be broken under the right circumstances. CFRP bikes seem
to have improved quite a bit over the past decade, although still more
likely to actually fracture in a heavy accident (e.g., a collision).
But it's been a long time since I've heard of one breaking JRA.

That said, I think I would still not be inclined to ride a bike wth
a CFRP fork/steerer- but that might just be my hidebound traditionalism.
I have read touring reports by a guy riding a CF road bike in the
Himalayas, Africa, etc., with nary a frame-related problem in thousands
of miles of rough roads and non-roads (by American standards).
Virtually every pro MTBer and cyclo-crosser rides CF bikes. If they
survive that kind of use, smooth asphalt riding ought to be just fine.
I think the materials and building techniques used have greatly
improved.

On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 11:40:31 AM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Sun, 25 Jun 2017 08:14:19 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:
On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 7:52:23 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Saturday, June 24, 2017 at 7:56:25 PM UTC-7, Claus Aßmann wrote:
We know that anyone that rides a CF bike is more interested in
saving a couple of lbs rather than his own safety but then that
is a problem that will solve itself.

Of course you are completely right. Nobody ever broke a non-CF
bike while "just riding along"...


Hmm, wait, the only time I ever had a bike break while riding it
was a steel bike with steel fork.

But that doesn't fit into your view of the world...

With details like that who could doubt you? Must have been your
Saronni with Columbus MAX tubing. Those forks are breaking every day.

Putting aside the potential problems with CF, bikes do break on the
Tour of Flanders and Paris-Roubaix. Cobbles can kill even classic
components. I remember a slide show Jock Boyer did for the SJBC in the
early'80s showing guys breaking Cinelli bars and stems in the Paris
Roubaix. I don't know about frames. I also don't think I would ride
the lightest production bike on the market over cobbles.

Any bike can be broken under the right circumstances. CFRP bikes seem
to have improved quite a bit over the past decade, although still more
likely to actually fracture in a heavy accident (e.g., a collision).
But it's been a long time since I've heard of one breaking JRA.

That said, I think I would still not be inclined to ride a bike wth
a CFRP fork/steerer- but that might just be my hidebound traditionalism.
I have read touring reports by a guy riding a CF road bike in the
Himalayas, Africa, etc., with nary a frame-related problem in thousands
of miles of rough roads and non-roads (by American standards).
Virtually every pro MTBer and cyclo-crosser rides CF bikes. If they
survive that kind of use, smooth asphalt riding ought to be just fine.
I think the materials and building techniques used have greatly
improved.

Tim - here's the problem. When someone says that they had a steel bike break if truth be known it was almost always a $50 Department Store bike. The CF bikes that are breaking now are $10,000 best of everything.

As my friend who now cannot use his small finger says, any catastrophic failure in this category is one too many.

And what we're having is even overbuilt CF bikes showing cracks after one month. A friend of mine had a Gary Fisher with a lifetime warranty on it. If started cracking and after Trek bought them they honored the warranty and provided him a new frame and fork. The NEW frame and fork cracked at the junction of the downtube and seattube in one month. They replaced that one and the new one seems fine after a year. But if you do not know what to expect do you want to possibly lay your life on the line?

Just this morning I was descending on what used to be a smooth road. Up at 42 mph I hit a series of hard bumps with a car passing me at the same time so that I neither had room to dodge or any way of dodging those bumps.

I would just as soon not have a $10,000 top of the line bicycle break in half at that moment.

On 6/25/2017 5:05 PM, wrote:
On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 11:40:31 AM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Sun, 25 Jun 2017 08:14:19 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:
On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 7:52:23 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Saturday, June 24, 2017 at 7:56:25 PM UTC-7, Claus Aßmann wrote:
We know that anyone that rides a CF bike is more interested in
saving a couple of lbs rather than his own safety but then that
is a problem that will solve itself.

Of course you are completely right. Nobody ever broke a non-CF
bike while "just riding along"...


Hmm, wait, the only time I ever had a bike break while riding it
was a steel bike with steel fork.

But that doesn't fit into your view of the world...

With details like that who could doubt you? Must have been your
Saronni with Columbus MAX tubing. Those forks are breaking every day.

Putting aside the potential problems with CF, bikes do break on the
Tour of Flanders and Paris-Roubaix. Cobbles can kill even classic
components. I remember a slide show Jock Boyer did for the SJBC in the
early'80s showing guys breaking Cinelli bars and stems in the Paris
Roubaix. I don't know about frames. I also don't think I would ride
the lightest production bike on the market over cobbles.

Any bike can be broken under the right circumstances. CFRP bikes seem
to have improved quite a bit over the past decade, although still more
likely to actually fracture in a heavy accident (e.g., a collision).
But it's been a long time since I've heard of one breaking JRA.

That said, I think I would still not be inclined to ride a bike wth
a CFRP fork/steerer- but that might just be my hidebound traditionalism.
I have read touring reports by a guy riding a CF road bike in the
Himalayas, Africa, etc., with nary a frame-related problem in thousands
of miles of rough roads and non-roads (by American standards).
Virtually every pro MTBer and cyclo-crosser rides CF bikes. If they
survive that kind of use, smooth asphalt riding ought to be just fine.
I think the materials and building techniques used have greatly
improved.

Tim - here's the problem. When someone says that they had a steel bike break if truth be known it was almost always a $50 Department Store bike. The CF bikes that are breaking now are $10,000 best of everything.

As my friend who now cannot use his small finger says, any catastrophic failure in this category is one too many.

And what we're having is even overbuilt CF bikes showing cracks after one month. A friend of mine had a Gary Fisher with a lifetime warranty on it. If started cracking and after Trek bought them they honored the warranty and provided him a new frame and fork. The NEW frame and fork cracked at the junction of the downtube and seattube in one month. They replaced that one and the new one seems fine after a year. But if you do not know what to expect do you want to possibly lay your life on the line?

Just this morning I was descending on what used to be a smooth road. Up at 42 mph I hit a series of hard bumps with a car passing me at the same time so that I neither had room to dodge or any way of dodging those bumps.

I would just as soon not have a $10,000 top of the line bicycle break in half at that moment.


I don't know what the statistical failure rates are for any
given product but I can tell you (as I have here before)
that everything breaks with some measurable frequency.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 3:05:43 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 11:40:31 AM UTC-7, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Sun, 25 Jun 2017 08:14:19 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:
On Sunday, June 25, 2017 at 7:52:23 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Saturday, June 24, 2017 at 7:56:25 PM UTC-7, Claus Aßmann wrote:
We know that anyone that rides a CF bike is more interested in
saving a couple of lbs rather than his own safety but then that
is a problem that will solve itself.

Of course you are completely right. Nobody ever broke a non-CF
bike while "just riding along"...


Hmm, wait, the only time I ever had a bike break while riding it
was a steel bike with steel fork.

But that doesn't fit into your view of the world...

With details like that who could doubt you? Must have been your
Saronni with Columbus MAX tubing. Those forks are breaking every day..

Putting aside the potential problems with CF, bikes do break on the
Tour of Flanders and Paris-Roubaix. Cobbles can kill even classic
components. I remember a slide show Jock Boyer did for the SJBC in the
early'80s showing guys breaking Cinelli bars and stems in the Paris
Roubaix. I don't know about frames. I also don't think I would ride
the lightest production bike on the market over cobbles.

Any bike can be broken under the right circumstances. CFRP bikes seem
to have improved quite a bit over the past decade, although still more
likely to actually fracture in a heavy accident (e.g., a collision).
But it's been a long time since I've heard of one breaking JRA.

That said, I think I would still not be inclined to ride a bike wth
a CFRP fork/steerer- but that might just be my hidebound traditionalism..
I have read touring reports by a guy riding a CF road bike in the
Himalayas, Africa, etc., with nary a frame-related problem in thousands
of miles of rough roads and non-roads (by American standards).
Virtually every pro MTBer and cyclo-crosser rides CF bikes. If they
survive that kind of use, smooth asphalt riding ought to be just fine.
I think the materials and building techniques used have greatly
improved.

Tim - here's the problem. When someone says that they had a steel bike break if truth be known it was almost always a $50 Department Store bike. The CF bikes that are breaking now are $10,000 best of everything.

As my friend who now cannot use his small finger says, any catastrophic failure in this category is one too many.

And what we're having is even overbuilt CF bikes showing cracks after one month. A friend of mine had a Gary Fisher with a lifetime warranty on it. If started cracking and after Trek bought them they honored the warranty and provided him a new frame and fork. The NEW frame and fork cracked at the junction of the downtube and seattube in one month. They replaced that one and the new one seems fine after a year. But if you do not know what to expect do you want to possibly lay your life on the line?

Just this morning I was descending on what used to be a smooth road. Up at 42 mph I hit a series of hard bumps with a car passing me at the same time so that I neither had room to dodge or any way of dodging those bumps.


I just did all that on a CF Roubaix, including a four mile ascent on forest road and dirt trail with babyheads. I used to do that road/trail a lot on my SuperSix before its untimely roof-rack accident. Final descent was this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqllO_J9_wA The bike didn't explode.

The two guys I was with were on CF (one on a 10 year old Pinarello), although we did run into a guy riding a Speedvagen http://www.thevanillaworkshop.com/speedvagen-about/ (CF forks) He passed us going up Old Germantown and then died a little at the top so we caught back up -- well, I was at the back blocking, so I let the other guys catch up. It was part of my strategy of being old and slow. When the sun shines (102F today), everyone is out on his or her bike.

The Roubaix is a pig compared to the Supersix. I miss that bike, and it descended like riding on a rail. I'll learn on Monday whether CF can stand up to being knocked off a roof rack. The forks are done, but the main frame -- which took the hit at the seat post -- looks like it is in pretty good shape. I hope it is ruined, though, because I want another bike with Shimano and not the SRAM Red. I never warmed to double-tap.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 6/25/2017 7:38 PM, jbeattie wrote:
Final descent was this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqllO_J9_wA The bike didn't explode.

I will say, I find fast descents in dappled bright sunshine to be scary.
It's very hard to spot potholes in time, at least with my old eyes.

--
- Frank Krygowski