"Standstill crash"

On 2017-06-30 18:31, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jun 2017 09:04:43 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-06-30 08:29, Frank Krygowski wrote:

[...]


But maybe a week ago, I was talking to a local planner. It was a social
situation involving re-introduction of friends from long ago.

Anyway, that bike project came up. I said something about hoping it
didn't get funded, and about its intersection design being particularly
atrocious.

The planner's facial expression seemed to indicate she disagreed with
me. She said "Well, I'm an incrementalist."

Given the social situation, I didn't ask for an explanation. But I
suspect she meant "We'll get the money and build it. Then we'll later
try to fix the mistakes."

Can you imagine designing structural bridge elements using that philosophy?


We've had plenty examples of bridges built with the "we'll fix it later"
mentality. For example, the Bay Bridge towards San Franscisco comes to
mind. When stuff can't really be fixed it gets papered over.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/articl...re-6290453.php

The problem, as stated in the article, was that 99% of the rods tested
passed the test and 1% failed. So what was papered over?


The corrosion was. When any such rod fails in a bridge after only very
few years of service life that is a big red flag. They let salty water
get in and this started a corrosion process which will very like eat
them, one by one by one. And soon.

It keeps on seeping which does not bode well if a big earthquake hits in
20 years or so:

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/articl...-s-6244776.php

IMO this is all symptomatic when big government gets in. The most recent
example in our area is a "bike lane" they put in at Green Valley Road
near El Dorado Hills, CA. I usually travel that stretch twice a week by
road bike, sometimes MTB. It is very lumpy and on the road bike it
shakes your bones. It seems they could not even operate a steam roller
correctly but, of course, they will collect fat pension checks later.
The old shoulder there was totally smooth so now I am riding
"ultra-AFRAP" where there is some old asphalt left. On the MTB I unlock
the suspension which I normally never have to do on roads.

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Friday, June 30, 2017 at 6:31:57 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jun 2017 09:04:43 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-06-30 08:29, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/29/2017 8:19 PM, jbeattie wrote:

I've seen some pretty swanky bicycle infrastructure that is
beautifully constructed and paved -- but still dangerous because of
design. Corner-cutting comes in many flavors -- and sometimes the
designers don't even see the corners. They think the facility is
super-deluxe when it's a death trap.

About six months ago, a dozen members of our bike club attended a public
meeting on a proposed bike facility. The design looked crazy, with
wrong-way cyclists mixing narrow spaces with pedestrians and with
chaotic interactions at intersections. We're fervently hoping the grant
application gets shot down hard.


It's probably already all carved up and the meetings are token events so
the public thinks it had its say.


But maybe a week ago, I was talking to a local planner. It was a social
situation involving re-introduction of friends from long ago.

Anyway, that bike project came up. I said something about hoping it
didn't get funded, and about its intersection design being particularly
atrocious.

The planner's facial expression seemed to indicate she disagreed with
me. She said "Well, I'm an incrementalist."

Given the social situation, I didn't ask for an explanation. But I
suspect she meant "We'll get the money and build it. Then we'll later
try to fix the mistakes."

Can you imagine designing structural bridge elements using that philosophy?


We've had plenty examples of bridges built with the "we'll fix it later"
mentality. For example, the Bay Bridge towards San Franscisco comes to
mind. When stuff can't really be fixed it gets papered over.

http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/articl...re-6290453.php

The problem, as stated in the article, was that 99% of the rods tested
passed the test and 1% failed. So what was papered over?

Sometimes the fixes come too late.

https://www.ntsb.gov/investigations/...ts/HAR0803.pdf

99% my ass - http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/articl...ge-6588743.php

On 6/30/2017 9:26 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jun 2017 11:29:11 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/29/2017 8:19 PM, jbeattie wrote:

I've seen some pretty swanky bicycle infrastructure that is beautifully constructed and paved -- but still dangerous because of design. Corner-cutting comes in many flavors -- and sometimes the designers don't even see the corners. They think the facility is super-deluxe when it's a death trap.

About six months ago, a dozen members of our bike club attended a public
meeting on a proposed bike facility. The design looked crazy, with
wrong-way cyclists mixing narrow spaces with pedestrians and with
chaotic interactions at intersections. We're fervently hoping the grant
application gets shot down hard.

But maybe a week ago, I was talking to a local planner. It was a social
situation involving re-introduction of friends from long ago.

Anyway, that bike project came up. I said something about hoping it
didn't get funded, and about its intersection design being particularly
atrocious.

The planner's facial expression seemed to indicate she disagreed with
me. She said "Well, I'm an incrementalist."

Given the social situation, I didn't ask for an explanation. But I
suspect she meant "We'll get the money and build it. Then we'll later
try to fix the mistakes."

Can you imagine designing structural bridge elements using that philosophy?

My own belief is that the U.S. already has sufficient highway space
and traffic laws to provide safe riding for bicyclists. For a far
simpler remedy why not just enforce the laws? It would seem to be the
cheapest solution.

I'd be in favor of that. But weird as it sounds, enforcing traffic laws
would require a cultural shift in America.

I know a guy with connections at the State Highway Patrol. He says that
if a SHP officer tickets a driver for going (say) 5 mph over the speed
limit, that officer will get razzed back at the barracks.

Our suburban village has a reputation as a "speed trap." Why? Because
in the state-mandated 25 mph zones, the cops will ticket someone doing
35 mph. And one bicyclist friend of mine who's a former cop swears at
the enforcement, claiming they do it only to raise money. Personally, as
a bicyclist and walker, I like the "speed trap" designation. I think we
should promote it with warning signs at the village limits.

And as I've said before, I'd prefer to have some sort of traffic calming
in residential neighborhood streets, something to physically or
psychologically prevent speeding. I'm sick of rat runners trying to
save seconds by zooming by little kids playing in their front yards.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 7/1/2017 3:36 AM, John B. wrote:


But having said that it might also be said that graft and corruption
is what made America great. Research the building of the
transcontinental railroad, digging of the Erie Cannel, the early
railroads, or any other major public construction project.

Do you suppose that's any different in other countries? I'd think it
would be pretty much the same.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Saturday, July 1, 2017 at 8:43:22 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/1/2017 3:36 AM, John B. wrote:


But having said that it might also be said that graft and corruption
is what made America great. Research the building of the
transcontinental railroad, digging of the Erie Cannel, the early
railroads, or any other major public construction project.

Do you suppose that's any different in other countries? I'd think it
would be pretty much the same.

Friends that have been it Italy and Holland say that it's MUCH worse. Didn't we just lose Nalini to a speeder in Italy?

On 7/1/2017 2:50 PM, wrote:
On Saturday, July 1, 2017 at 8:43:22 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/1/2017 3:36 AM, John B. wrote:


But having said that it might also be said that graft and corruption
is what made America great. Research the building of the
transcontinental railroad, digging of the Erie Cannel, the early
railroads, or any other major public construction project.

Do you suppose that's any different in other countries? I'd think it
would be pretty much the same.

Friends that have been it Italy and Holland say that it's MUCH worse. Didn't we just lose Nalini to a speeder in Italy?

You're right. I should have said that most other countries are at least
as bad. Some countries certainly have the reputation for being far worse.

I suppose we should ask: Does anyone live in a country where graft and
corruption are absent?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sat, 1 Jul 2017 11:36:49 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/30/2017 9:26 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 30 Jun 2017 11:29:11 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 6/29/2017 8:19 PM, jbeattie wrote:

I've seen some pretty swanky bicycle infrastructure that is beautifully constructed and paved -- but still dangerous because of design. Corner-cutting comes in many flavors -- and sometimes the designers don't even see the corners. They think the facility is super-deluxe when it's a death trap.

About six months ago, a dozen members of our bike club attended a public
meeting on a proposed bike facility. The design looked crazy, with
wrong-way cyclists mixing narrow spaces with pedestrians and with
chaotic interactions at intersections. We're fervently hoping the grant
application gets shot down hard.

But maybe a week ago, I was talking to a local planner. It was a social
situation involving re-introduction of friends from long ago.

Anyway, that bike project came up. I said something about hoping it
didn't get funded, and about its intersection design being particularly
atrocious.

The planner's facial expression seemed to indicate she disagreed with
me. She said "Well, I'm an incrementalist."

Given the social situation, I didn't ask for an explanation. But I
suspect she meant "We'll get the money and build it. Then we'll later
try to fix the mistakes."

Can you imagine designing structural bridge elements using that philosophy?

My own belief is that the U.S. already has sufficient highway space
and traffic laws to provide safe riding for bicyclists. For a far
simpler remedy why not just enforce the laws? It would seem to be the
cheapest solution.

I'd be in favor of that. But weird as it sounds, enforcing traffic laws
would require a cultural shift in America.

Not weird, just another example of the U.S. attitude that punishing
someone who breaks the law is somehow uncivilized, or perhaps ignoring
his minority status or some other bunk. If one isn't to be punished
for exceeding the speed limit then why have a speed limit at all?

Some Snipped


And as I've said before, I'd prefer to have some sort of traffic calming
in residential neighborhood streets, something to physically or
psychologically prevent speeding. I'm sick of rat runners trying to
save seconds by zooming by little kids playing in their front yards.

Traffic bumps or "sleeping policemen" as they are known as here. The
local village had a big to do some yours ago about a car driven by the
engineering crew of a supper yacht that ran through the village at
speeds estimated to be 70 - 100 kmh.

There was a reason for the speeds but that didn't pacify the villagers
who's kids, chickens, goats, whatever, wander across the road, so they
laid down speed bumps about every 20 feet through the village. These
aren't the gracefully sloped bumps that you sometimes see, these are
very abrupt and will probably bounce one off the road at any speed
over 25 kpm. and the sneaky villagers don't paint them so you can't
really see them until the front wheels go crash.

It certainly does keep speeds down but they are not pleasant on a
bicycle. They work out to every three pedal strokes and BUMP!
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sat, 1 Jul 2017 11:43:18 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 7/1/2017 3:36 AM, John B. wrote:


But having said that it might also be said that graft and corruption
is what made America great. Research the building of the
transcontinental railroad, digging of the Erie Cannel, the early
railroads, or any other major public construction project.

Do you suppose that's any different in other countries? I'd think it
would be pretty much the same.

I've lived in a number of the Asian nations during their development
period and "tit for tat" is very much the name of the game. You do
something for me and I do something for you. In fact it is ingrained
in the culture.

This is not simply a matter of "Tea Money", as it is called, but
extends throughout all human relations. The Tea Money is simply the
most visible part of it. As an example, if you buy fish in the "wet
market" and a vender gives you a really good deal on a nice fat fish
then you "owe" the vender and as long as the vender keeps giving you a
good deal then you really should continue to buy your fish from her.
Most of the Oriental languages have specific terms for this. In Thai
it translate to "pay you back for your act".

Another example: The company I worked for in Indonesia was probably,
at the time, the most experienced and successful at building remote
drilling sites in dense jungle and we still paid someone something for
every contract we were awarded. Now then, everyone in the business
knew we were the best, that we would get the sites built on schedule,
and that our prices were fair. But still we "owed" the chap, or
office, that awarded us the work for the award of the work.

I think that is probably a world wide phenomena.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Saturday, July 1, 2017 at 11:52:38 PM UTC-4, John B. wrote:
Snipped
Traffic bumps or "sleeping policemen" as they are known as here. The
local village had a big to do some yours ago about a car driven by the
engineering crew of a supper yacht that ran through the village at
speeds estimated to be 70 - 100 kmh.

There was a reason for the speeds but that didn't pacify the villagers
who's kids, chickens, goats, whatever, wander across the road, so they
laid down speed bumps about every 20 feet through the village. These
aren't the gracefully sloped bumps that you sometimes see, these are
very abrupt and will probably bounce one off the road at any speed
over 25 kpm. and the sneaky villagers don't paint them so you can't
really see them until the front wheels go crash.

It certainly does keep speeds down but they are not pleasant on a
bicycle. They work out to every three pedal strokes and BUMP!
--
Cheers,

John B.

What a fantastic place to perfect your bunny hopping technique! VBEG LOL

Cheers

On Sat, 1 Jul 2017 22:42:30 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 7/1/2017 2:50 PM, wrote:
On Saturday, July 1, 2017 at 8:43:22 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 7/1/2017 3:36 AM, John B. wrote:


But having said that it might also be said that graft and corruption
is what made America great. Research the building of the
transcontinental railroad, digging of the Erie Cannel, the early
railroads, or any other major public construction project.

Do you suppose that's any different in other countries? I'd think it
would be pretty much the same.

Friends that have been it Italy and Holland say that it's MUCH worse. Didn't we just lose Nalini to a speeder in Italy?

You're right. I should have said that most other countries are at least
as bad. Some countries certainly have the reputation for being far worse.

I suppose we should ask: Does anyone live in a country where graft and
corruption are absent?

Singapore has the low level stuff down to a minimum. If you were to
offer a traffic policeman Tea Money you will likely be arrested for
bribing an officer.

But we found that just being a nice guy worked pretty well. I remember
we had a barge load of equipment ready to leave with the tug scheduled
for tomorrow morning and still needed customs clearance. When the
Customs Inspector finally arrived at the dock we had a power boat
waiting, cold water and cold cokes on the barge, a gofer to hold a
flashlight to read the serial numbers and one of our people with all
the lading documents on a clipboard and I (Big Boss)was there to
resolve any problems. The Inspector stayed late to get the paperwork
finished so we could sail on schedule.

In contrast a "Materials Manager" for an oil company got in an
argument about "drill pipe" with a Customs Inspector. The discussion
got finalized after four days. That is four days of mooring rental,
barge rental, tug rental, and rescheduling the trucking company to
move the pipe on a Sunday :-)

But having said that what is corruption? Hiring a guy because my old
buddy Frank recommended him? Buying from Muzi because he will give me
a fair price?

I'm sure that the guy I didn't hire and the shop I didn't buy from
will be screaming loudly about undue influence, unfair trading and
probably unnatural sex acts :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.