Hamburg G20 summit protests and bicycles

On Tue, 11 Jul 2017 05:48:47 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

John B. wrote:

Back in the days or the student protests
against the Vietnam war I read a survey of
the students that joined the protests and
overwhelmingly it was the students taking the
courses in the less difficult subjects,
basket weaving, etc., that were protesting.
Students in the engineering, medical, legal
and sciences course were noticeably absence.
Whether this was due to higher intelligence
or more study time required was
not mentioned.

The most important reason for that is that
people who do those things are stable people
who care for what they do and put their
energies into it. They have had background that
have allowed different interests to evolve and
they to do fine in school.


Yes, I see. Those who busted out the shop window, I see in news
articles about the German riots, and apparently robbed the shop of
everything that was in it are to be respected?

But what was this done in support of? Anti Globalization I read, but
what is that? Does this mean that Mercedes can only sell cars in
Germany?

After all Mercedes is the largest seller of luxury autos in the world
and this must certainly support their German factories. So I assume
that anti globalization means that Mercedes must stop all foreign
sales and close down the majority of their plants and thus throw
2/3rds of their work force out of work. which of curse will result in
their paying substantially less tax which mean that the German
government will have less money to support students.


--
Cheers,

John B.

JS, read more wrench less...in political theories..

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti...ation_movement

The 'Marxist' are trying to produce a political/social effectiveness from their collective physical and intellectual understanding of European history as the human experience.

There would be opinions on how this happens to the individual ...n not Kent State JS, but short search doesn't uncover maybe in Scholar.

Just guessing generally they doahn much difference tween Franz Jose n Siemens

On 10/07/2017 10:15 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jul 2017 06:37:42 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Sunday, July 9, 2017 at 3:21:55 PM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 9 Jul 2017 12:32:38 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

reputed Marxists ...
I acquired the idea they are anarchists.

Karl Marx was not an anarchist. As Wikipedia offers:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism_and_Marxism
Marxism has tended to be a theoretical or analytical discourse
about revolutionary strategy.
Anarchism has tended to be an ethical discourse about
revolutionary practice.
Ummm... right.

Maybe they have a five year plan ?

That was the Communists starting in about 1928:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_five-year_plan_(Soviet_Union)
They gave up on the idea when they discovered that nobody in Russia
could afford a 5 year calendar.

was good TV ?

Although there was something resembling a TV starting in about 1928,
modern television didn't really take off until 1953, when RCA finally
figured out how to make NTSC function.

Kropotkin Lives !

He died in 1921. Quite an oddity for an anarchist as he was from a
wealthy land owning family. He does kinda look like a modern day
hipster:
https://www.google.com/search?q=kropotkin&tbm=isch

Marx planned the horrors of the world. Any government big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take all you have. And they have in every single case in history with the most extreme cases those of North Korea and East Germany. They went from Facism to Communism and the common man couldn't detect a difference.

Nor, it is likely, gave a damn.

At least from what I've read the "common man" in either Russia, China
or N. Korea was primarily interested in getting enough to eat and
everything other then that was meaningless.


That happens when you starve people.

On 10/07/2017 10:28 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jul 2017 17:11:38 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

John B. wrote:

As an admitted "terrorist" can you tell us
what the positive results of your
protest was?

Other then the gratuitous destruction of
other people's property, that is.

It is just the immature/destructive part of the
rebellion involving to a huge extent very
young, frustrated people. It is not the kids
who ace it at school and are good at sports.
It is marginalized people from disfunctional
families. The girls, from a traditional point
of view, aren't very attractive. Reality, not
an excuse.

The positive thing is "when you feel
frustration, show it" and in the right
direction, because if you don't, it will be
pointed at yourself or people who have nothing
to do we it.

At least it isn't pathetic as the
"revolutionary" ML-groups doing nothing, having
a meeting once a week reading Lenin and
analyzing "US-imperialism".

Is it a Homer quote? "It is easy to be angry,
but difficult to be angry at the right time, at
the right person, and for the right reason."

Negative aspects should be obvious to anyone...

But to take the immature/destructive rebellion
into something creative is an even more
difficult step and the challenge for anyone
growing up from it.

Back in the days or the student protests against the Vietnam war I
read a survey of the students that joined the protests and
overwhelmingly it was the students taking the courses in the less
difficult subjects, basket weaving, etc., that were protesting.
Students in the engineering, medical, legal and sciences course were
noticeably absence. Whether this was due to higher intelligence or
more study time required was not mentioned.


You should check where you read stuff. As I recall we didn't have any
basket weaving classes in my curriculum. First hit on a google for
engineering students protesting Vietnam:

https://www.google.ca/search?q=engin...w=1346&bih=733

As I remember it, after the Kent State tragedy when the militia
actually fired on the mob, protests seemed to become less spectacular,
which may be a comment on the dedication of the average "protester".

More bull****. Kent State got more people into the streets protesting
than before. "4 dead in Ohio" became an anthem.

http://depts.washington.edu/antiwar/may1970strike.shtml

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-h...onwide-protest



Whether you were pro or anti Vietnam, the fact is the antiwar protesters
were not lazy, stupid cowards any more than the supporters were fascist
murderers. Fake news and alternate facts.

On Tue, 11 Jul 2017 08:00:08 -0400, Duane
wrote:

On 10/07/2017 10:15 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jul 2017 06:37:42 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Sunday, July 9, 2017 at 3:21:55 PM UTC-7, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sun, 9 Jul 2017 12:32:38 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

reputed Marxists ...
I acquired the idea they are anarchists.

Karl Marx was not an anarchist. As Wikipedia offers:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism_and_Marxism
Marxism has tended to be a theoretical or analytical discourse
about revolutionary strategy.
Anarchism has tended to be an ethical discourse about
revolutionary practice.
Ummm... right.

Maybe they have a five year plan ?

That was the Communists starting in about 1928:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_five-year_plan_(Soviet_Union)
They gave up on the idea when they discovered that nobody in Russia
could afford a 5 year calendar.

was good TV ?

Although there was something resembling a TV starting in about 1928,
modern television didn't really take off until 1953, when RCA finally
figured out how to make NTSC function.

Kropotkin Lives !

He died in 1921. Quite an oddity for an anarchist as he was from a
wealthy land owning family. He does kinda look like a modern day
hipster:
https://www.google.com/search?q=kropotkin&tbm=isch

Marx planned the horrors of the world. Any government big enough to give you all you want is big enough to take all you have. And they have in every single case in history with the most extreme cases those of North Korea and East Germany. They went from Facism to Communism and the common man couldn't detect a difference.

Nor, it is likely, gave a damn.

At least from what I've read the "common man" in either Russia, China
or N. Korea was primarily interested in getting enough to eat and
everything other then that was meaningless.


That happens when you starve people.

I don't believe that anyone in previous China or Russia governments
actually starved anyone, in the sense of actively denying food and
certainly not in China under previous governments. The continued
warfare and banditry from roughly 1911, with the fall of the imperial
government, until the country was stabilized under the present regime,
undoubtedly caused sufficient starvation in the country that politics
were probably not the main subject of conversation in the village
square.

It might be germane that a common greeting in much of Asia is "Have
you eaten yet ?"
--
Cheers,

John B.

following stacking bodies like cord wood during WW2


Stalin killed 50 million people pursuing Soviet national goals

the problem with Russian government management is not political theory, the problem is no top soil and cold weather

the first problem. human rights...to secure a new mustang and ac apt is secondary.

On Tue, 11 Jul 2017 08:11:44 -0400, Duane
wrote:

On 10/07/2017 10:28 PM, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 10 Jul 2017 17:11:38 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

John B. wrote:

As an admitted "terrorist" can you tell us
what the positive results of your
protest was?

Other then the gratuitous destruction of
other people's property, that is.

It is just the immature/destructive part of the
rebellion involving to a huge extent very
young, frustrated people. It is not the kids
who ace it at school and are good at sports.
It is marginalized people from disfunctional
families. The girls, from a traditional point
of view, aren't very attractive. Reality, not
an excuse.

The positive thing is "when you feel
frustration, show it" and in the right
direction, because if you don't, it will be
pointed at yourself or people who have nothing
to do we it.

At least it isn't pathetic as the
"revolutionary" ML-groups doing nothing, having
a meeting once a week reading Lenin and
analyzing "US-imperialism".

Is it a Homer quote? "It is easy to be angry,
but difficult to be angry at the right time, at
the right person, and for the right reason."

Negative aspects should be obvious to anyone...

But to take the immature/destructive rebellion
into something creative is an even more
difficult step and the challenge for anyone
growing up from it.

Back in the days or the student protests against the Vietnam war I
read a survey of the students that joined the protests and
overwhelmingly it was the students taking the courses in the less
difficult subjects, basket weaving, etc., that were protesting.
Students in the engineering, medical, legal and sciences course were
noticeably absence. Whether this was due to higher intelligence or
more study time required was not mentioned.


You should check where you read stuff. As I recall we didn't have any
basket weaving classes in my curriculum. First hit on a google for
engineering students protesting Vietnam:

https://www.google.ca/search?q=engin...w=1346&bih=733


I'll have a little trouble researching the problem as I remember
reading the argument that the mobs were made up mainly of students who
were not in the professional courses in one news magazine or the other
during the strife in California collages, which would have been what?
In the late 1960's? Probably in 1968, as I was back from Vietnam.

As I remember it, after the Kent State tragedy when the militia
actually fired on the mob, protests seemed to become less spectacular,
which may be a comment on the dedication of the average "protester".

More bull****. Kent State got more people into the streets protesting
than before. "4 dead in Ohio" became an anthem.

http://depts.washington.edu/antiwar/may1970strike.shtml


You seem to be telling me about one collage while I was referring to
the U.S. as a whole.

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-h...onwide-protest

Nation wide Protest? Come on now. I was living in the U.S. in 1970,
specifically in California, and I certainly do not remember seeing, or
reading about any nation wide protest.

It must have been one of those things like The Ride of Paul
Revere....everyone knows about it but it never actually happened.,

Whether you were pro or anti Vietnam, the fact is the antiwar protesters
were not lazy, stupid cowards any more than the supporters were fascist
murderers. Fake news and alternate facts.

Well, the supporters were the U.S. duly elected government and the
protesters seemed to be made up of great herds of people that had no
actual knowledge of Vietnam (under any regime).

I'll give you an example.

Remember the photo of General Nguyen Ngoc Loan shooting the guy in the
head that got everyone all riled up? It was referred to as "The Eddie
Adams photo that provides one of the iconic images that eventually
helped sway public opinion in the United States against the war". Yup,
got everyone all excited.

Now what really happened was that during the Tet battle for Saigon,
the Viet Cong captured the Armor Camp in Go Vap. After communist
troops took control of the base Lém, the leader of a Viet Cong unit,
seized Lieutenant Colonel Nguyen Tuan with his family and murdered
Tuan, his wife and six children and his 80-year-old mother by cutting
their throats.

When captured by the police near a mass grave with 34 civilian bodies.
Lém stated that he was proud to carry out his unit leader's order to
kill these people. When brought before General Loan, Loan summarily
executed him using his sidearm,

But, of course, the American public didn't know the details, did they?
A picture was printed and Shazam! Everyone was waving their arms in
the air and screaming.

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Monday, July 10, 2017 at 1:56:00 PM UTC-7, Emanuel Berg wrote:
frustrated" by what?

By their daily life, year in and year out with
humiliation, school and social life where they
cannot compete, no interests or cultural
activities, no crafts or outdoor relaxation, no
rest at home with disfunctional families, no
jobs or at least none which will lift their
spirits and capture their imaginations, their
thoughts obviously at this point not being
clear but a mixture of confusing ideas and
emotions, often made worse by alcohol and
drugs, and so on, and so on.

I was very young and frustrated because I had
an IQ of 145 and could plainly see answers
that PhD's could not. And they wouldn't
listen to me until they would suggest
spending a great deal of money on a project
and I would suggest 10% or less.

But I didn't go out and loot local stores
because of that.

Well, not everyone is like you.

Perhaps that's something that I can't understand because I never gave IQ a thought or even any acceptance until much later in life.

I have always felt that everyone has the same capabilities and capacities. Even Frank........

So the only reasons I can come up with for the actions of people are more ego or lack of ego that motivates them.

When I call someone a dummy or stupid it actually isn't aimed at them personally but at their actions. Because I have never met anyone that hasn't done stupid things. And perhaps in that I'm the leader of the pack.

I think that people that "cannot compete" are those that have never been given the idea that they can. They become accepting of a life where they feel lower than others. Do you know that the best time in my life was when I had jobs that required almost no thought - the jobs that you think frustrates people?

It's just that I also needed to stretch my imagination and so I would leave these jobs for tough jobs. I stopped working on commercial airline electronics to work in robotics. That job ended and I was on the street so I went to work as a rapid transit electronic technician. I left that to engineer and program and when two or three of those in a row ended I took up a partnership with a man installing telephone systems in office buildings.

The easy jobs were great. You didn't have to worry about failing and you in general had great job reliability. But all those seriously important jobs ALL ended. And not just me - all of my bosses and their bosses are elsewhere now as well. And these guys really knew what they were doing.

How many people do you know that never get any relaxation because they don't take the chance? I was becoming a little old crippled man at 30 when a man suggested cycling for my back. Without that I probably would be one of those people in a walker now. Maybe people need to egg each other on more to get them to be more relaxed and happier. It would help most people's home lives as well.

On Monday, July 10, 2017 at 2:13:55 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-07-08 22:06, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Do anti-capitalists have something against bicycles?


No, they are just completely nuts.

And therein lies the rub. If you are taught that someone is taking something away from you, you can grow to believe it no matter how loony it is.

On Monday, July 10, 2017 at 6:44:33 PM UTC-7, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Joerg wrote:

No, they are just completely nuts.

Some of them are definitely nuts but the vast
majority of them are not nuts in the sense
Nazis or Jihadists are. I would say they are
lost, only to me with their walk of life it
makes sense they end up where they do. If they
were ever given a calm place and an activity
that made sense to them none of this would ever
happen. It is a great tragedy society couldn't
provide such basic things and I regard that
tragedy much bigger than some cars put
aflame...

They have a place. The people that are forced into these positions of slavery are 100:1 more than their controllers and they do nothing about it.