How much movement in spokes?

David Kerber writes:

I just got my brand new 2003 Fuji Touring today, and after going for
a ride, I brought it inside to transfer the computer, light, etc from
my old bike. While I was at it, I decided to stress-relieve the
spokes in case they hadn't been done in the shop (I didn't ask, but
I assume they weren't). While I was squeezing the spokes, I got a
few pops and pings from them so I think they needed it.

Pops and pings are a sign that the spokes were twisted, and when
unloaded (the ones adjacent to the ones you stretched) turned in the
threads. Now the wheel is no longer true. This is what happens by
default when you ride over a bump. It causes a poorly built wheel to
become untrue. Stress relieving is a noiseless event in which spokes
are stretched to yield at residual stress points. It should not make
a sound.

My question is: how much should the spokes move (bend) while I'm
squeezing them? To my inexperienced eye, they seemed to be rather
loose, and I'm wondering if I should tighten them all up by 1/2 a
turn or something. The rims are Alex 2100's double-walled aluminum,
and appear to be perfectly true and round when I spin them (as I
would expect on a new bike). I weigh about 190, and I don't plan to
do any heavy touring, but a few trips to the store are likely, and I
might do some touring at some point in the future on it.

You'll need a tensiometer to measure tension. "How far" won't do
because everyone grasps spokes with differing force.

Thanks for any light you can shed on this!

If you want to build or re-build wheels you might have a look at:

http://www.avocet.com/wheelbook/wheelbook.html

Jobst Brandt

Palo Alto CA

wrote in message
...
David Kerber writes:

I just got my brand new 2003 Fuji Touring today, and after going for

I've been wanting to test ride one of those. Looks like a very nice,
versatile well-spec'd bike.

Pops and pings are a sign that the spokes were twisted, and when
unloaded (the ones adjacent to the ones you stretched) turned in the
threads. Now the wheel is no longer true.

Well, yes, but the increased rim runout is probably not even visible.

This is what happens by
default when you ride over a bump. It causes a poorly built wheel to
become untrue. Stress relieving is a noiseless event in which spokes
are stretched to yield at residual stress points. It should not make
a sound.

The pops and pings also happen when riding wheels for the first time where
spokes were twisted during building. I just take the wheels off after the
first ride and fine-true them again. Works a charm.

My question is: how much should the spokes move (bend) while I'm
squeezing them? To my inexperienced eye, they seemed to be rather
loose, and I'm wondering if I should tighten them all up by 1/2 a
turn or something.

It's difficult to tell from your description; but I think you're on the
right track. They might need more than 1/2 turn . If you ride them, and
they go out of true quickly, then they're definitely too loose. This is a
problem with machine-built wheels in general, from what I've read and
experienced.

You'll need a tensiometer to measure tension. "How far" won't do
because everyone grasps spokes with differing force.

A tensiometer would be great; but the "ping" test has always worked for me.
I've built dozens of wheels, never used a tensiometer even once. I "ping"
the spokes and get them to sound with the same tone, or just squeeze them in
adjacent pairs and then tension them equally by feel.

From my experience, the spoke wrench will probably slip before you get a
spoke too tight. Check out the spoke tension on the high-end
low-spoke-count wheels sometime to get an idea of just how high you can go.
I'm of the belief that generally speaking it is better to be on the high
side than on the low side of spoke tension. Of course, it is possible to
get spokes too tight. I've just never managed to do it.

Thanks for any light you can shed on this!

HTH

-Barry

David- While I was at it, I decided to stress-relieve the spokes in
case they hadn't been done in the shop (I didn't ask, but I assume they
weren't). While I was squeezing the spokes, I got a few pops and pings
from them so I think they needed it. BRBR

The noise is from spoke windup, not stress relieving.

David My question is: how much should the spokes move (bend) while I'm
squeezing them? To my inexperienced eye, they seemed to be rather
loose, and I'm wondering if I should tighten them all up by 1/2 a turn
or something. BRBR

They probably are, most wheels are but I wouldn't just arbitrarily start
raising the tension w/o knowing what it is to start with. Ya can kill a wheel
that way.



Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

barry- The pops and pings also happen when riding wheels for the first time
where
spokes were twisted during building. I just take the wheels off after the
first ride and fine-true them again. Works a charm. BRBR

A decent builder should take these twists out as he builds the wheel. Not doing
so just changes the tesnion and also the true-ness of the wheel. Not doing it
means the wheelbuilder is missing an important part of the build. New wheels
should not make a noise.



Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

"Jay Hill" wrote in message
. ..
If you want to build or re-build wheels you might have a look at:

http://www.avocet.com/wheelbook/wheelbook.html

Or go to Sheldon Brown's site, where you can get good information and
don't have to buy a book.

Unless you want to waste alot of time and bother printing the stuff, or
committing it totally to memory before setting out, having a book is a good
thing. I found it worth every penny to be able to reference the thing
anytime, anywhere. Books are so much nicer than internet pages.

Aside from all that, with all due respect, Sheldon's site has hardly the
information found in "The Book".



--
Robin Hubert

Robin Hubert wrote:
: "Jay Hill" wrote in message
: . ..
: If you want to build or re-build wheels you might have a look at:
:
: http://www.avocet.com/wheelbook/wheelbook.html
:
: Or go to Sheldon Brown's site, where you can get good information and
: don't have to buy a book.

: Unless you want to waste alot of time and bother printing the stuff, or
: committing it totally to memory before setting out, having a book is a good
: thing. I found it worth every penny to be able to reference the thing
: anytime, anywhere. Books are so much nicer than internet pages.


I have used both. " The book" was fine But Sheldon's web site is just
plain good fun and useful to boot. And it is in color! Who needs to
print it out? Just save the pages to your hard drive and read them when
needed.

: Aside from all that, with all due respect, Sheldon's site has hardly the
: information found in "The Book".



Sheldon had a great site with loads more info that you find in the book.
Bearings, axles, quick release info, etc.

I found that only around 20 pages of "the Book" is worth reading. The
rest will just make your eyes glaze over.

--------------------------------
Bob Masse'
--------------------------------