upgrading Allez Elite from Compact to triple

I've worked out I need a new chainset, front deraillier but do I need a rear
draillier as I've got the short cage not the long cage? Need the triple as
I'm doing La marmotte next year!

Gareth

Gareth Price wrote:
I've worked out I need a new chainset, front deraillier but do I need
a rear draillier as I've got the short cage not the long cage? Need
the triple as I'm doing La marmotte next year!

It's sometimes possible to get away with a short cage with a triple system
if you avoid lots of certain gear combinatons, but life will be easier with
a long cage. I would recommend a long cage.

You /might/ also need a longer chain if the new largest chainring is larger
than the old one.

~PB

On 2 Nov, 15:28, "Pete Biggs"
wrote:
Gareth Price wrote:
I've worked out I need a new chainset, front deraillier but do I need
a rear draillier as I've got the short cage not the long cage? *Need
the triple as I'm doing La marmotte next year!

It's sometimes possible to get away with a short cage with a triple system
if you avoid lots of certain gear combinatons, but life will be easier with
a long cage. *I would recommend a long cage.

You /might/ also need a longer chain if the new largest chainring is larger
than the old one.

~PB

Yes, I would get a long cage rear mech and a great big cassette, 32 or
34 bottom if possible. I have a road triple on my best bike and I find
it has no greater range of gears than a double with big cassette, but
you have to give more thought to which chainwheel/ sprocket combo you
are to use.
TerryJ

On Mon, 3 Nov 2008 01:45:51 -0800 (PST)
TerryJ wrote:

On 2 Nov, 15:28, "Pete Biggs"
wrote:
Gareth Price wrote:
I've worked out I need a new chainset, front deraillier but do I
need a rear draillier as I've got the short cage not the long
cage? Â*Need the triple as I'm doing La marmotte next year!

It's sometimes possible to get away with a short cage with a triple
system if you avoid lots of certain gear combinatons, but life will
be easier with a long cage. Â*I would recommend a long cage.

You /might/ also need a longer chain if the new largest chainring
is larger than the old one.

~PB

Yes, I would get a long cage rear mech and a great big cassette, 32 or
34 bottom if possible. I have a road triple on my best bike and I find
it has no greater range of gears than a double with big cassette, but
you have to give more thought to which chainwheel/ sprocket combo you
are to use.

One of the advantages of using a triple is that you can use a nice
close ratio block and still have a reasonably low bottom gear - a wide
ratio block with a double will often mean you can't quite get the right
ratio, a wide ratio block with a triple may have the right ratio
somewhere but you'd have to be lucky to find it.
As for long arm vs. short arm, it really depends how short the short
arm mech really is - IME many will cope with a triple if you don't run
big-to-2-biggest or small-to-2-smallest.

TerryJ wrote:

Yes, I would get a long cage rear mech and a great big cassette, 32 or
34 bottom if possible. I have a road triple on my best bike and I find
it has no greater range of gears than a double with big cassette, but
you have to give more thought to which chainwheel/ sprocket combo you
are to use.

Great big cassettes tend to have great big jumps between the gears. If
slightly lower bottom gears are required, you can just change the triple
chainset's inner ring for a smaller one. This is a nicer option, imo.

~PB

terryj wrote:
One of the advantages of using a triple is that you can use a nice
close ratio block and still have a reasonably low bottom gear - a
wide ratio block with a double will often mean you can't quite get
the right ratio, a wide ratio block with a triple may have the right
ratio somewhere but you'd have to be lucky to find it.

And you'll have to front /and/ rear shift even if you can find it, then
front and rear shift again next time.

If one likes to think a lot about which chainwheel and what sprocket
then I suppose the more of them the better.I think many people are
going for a compact double because it simplifies the decisions.
Some people extol the virtues of single speed.

I think compact doubles are popular because they provide lower gears than
you get with a conventional road double, yet without the weight, expense and
Q factor of a triple.

Triples are particularly good though when you want a wide range of closely
spaced gears, or just the widest range possible.

~PB

One of the advantages of using a triple is that you can use a nice
close ratio block and still have a reasonably low bottom gear - a wide
ratio block with a double will often mean you can't quite get the right
ratio, a wide ratio block with a triple may have the right ratio
somewhere but you'd have to be lucky to find it.
If one likes to think a lot about which chainwheel and what sprocket
then I suppose the more of them the better.I think many people are going
for a compact double because it simplifies the decisions.
Some people extol the virtues of single speed.

As for long arm vs. short arm, it really depends how short the short
arm mech really is - IME many will cope with a triple if you don't run
big-to-2-biggest or small-to-2-smallest.
I used to run 52/42 with an mtb block of 14 to 32 on my road bike(hilly
area, not that fit) with a 105 short arm rear mech in the early 90's. It
just about coped with 42/32. I wouldn't recommend it , though. A low end
rear mech would not cost much.
I agree that the short arm rear will cope with a triple if you don't
cross track too much.

TerryJ wrote:

On 2 Nov, 15:28, "Pete Biggs"
wrote:
Gareth Price wrote:
I've worked out I need a new chainset, front deraillier but do I need
a rear draillier as I've got the short cage not the long cage? Need
the triple as I'm doing La marmotte next year!

It's sometimes possible to get away with a short cage with a triple system
if you avoid lots of certain gear combinatons, but life will be easier with
a long cage. I would recommend a long cage.

You /might/ also need a longer chain if the new largest chainring is larger
than the old one.

~PB

Yes, I would get a long cage rear mech and a great big cassette, 32 or
34 bottom if possible. I have a road triple on my best bike and I find
it has no greater range of gears than a double with big cassette, but
you have to give more thought to which chainwheel/ sprocket combo you
are to use.
TerryJ

well if your going from 34t to 30t you'll get maybe a gear lower, if you
have a relitvely high cassette you may well get most of the gearing with
a low range cassette,

though you do end up with the dead zones with the compacts that can be a
pain.

if the parts are worn out, or you simply want it, just warning that the
differnace is not as much as you'd think reading some forum posts.

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com

Rob Morley wrote:

On Mon, 3 Nov 2008 01:45:51 -0800 (PST)
TerryJ wrote:

On 2 Nov, 15:28, "Pete Biggs"
wrote:
Gareth Price wrote:
I've worked out I need a new chainset, front deraillier but do I
need a rear draillier as I've got the short cage not the long
cage? Need the triple as I'm doing La marmotte next year!

It's sometimes possible to get away with a short cage with a triple
system if you avoid lots of certain gear combinatons, but life will
be easier with a long cage. I would recommend a long cage.

You /might/ also need a longer chain if the new largest chainring
is larger than the old one.

~PB

Yes, I would get a long cage rear mech and a great big cassette, 32 or
34 bottom if possible. I have a road triple on my best bike and I find
it has no greater range of gears than a double with big cassette, but
you have to give more thought to which chainwheel/ sprocket combo you
are to use.

One of the advantages of using a triple is that you can use a nice
close ratio block and still have a reasonably low bottom gear - a wide
ratio block with a double will often mean you can't quite get the right
ratio, a wide ratio block with a triple may have the right ratio
somewhere but you'd have to be lucky to find it.
As for long arm vs. short arm, it really depends how short the short
arm mech really is - IME many will cope with a triple if you don't run
big-to-2-biggest or small-to-2-smallest.

having a MTB back ground one of the things i like about the old racer is
it's a fairly simple thing, twin chainrings with a 9 speed block at the
back, has enough range to cope with all but the steepest of hills, i'm
fine with slighly wider spaced gears. and the fact that most of the
gearing and changing can be done on the cassette rather than the chain
rings is very much a plus for me.

roger
--
www.rogermerriman.com

Roger Merriman wrote:

having a MTB back ground one of the things i like about the old racer
is it's a fairly simple thing, twin chainrings with a 9 speed block
at the back, has enough range to cope with all but the steepest of
hills, i'm fine with slighly wider spaced gears. and the fact that
most of the gearing and changing can be done on the cassette rather
than the chain rings is very much a plus for me.

You do even more of the changing on the cassette with a triple if you stay
on the middle ring most of the time. The chainline allows you to use all or
nearly all the rear gears with it. You have to front-shift more with a
double to avoid excessive cross-chaining.

If you have 9 or 10 cogs in your cassette then can have plenty of closely
spaced gears AND a pretty wide range, eg 13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-26-29.

~PB