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  #101  
Old April 29th 12, 06:17 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Squashme
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Posts: 4,146
Default The Shed Thread

On Apr 29, 5:36*pm, Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 16:12:24 +0100, Judith
wrote:









On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 08:08:27 +0000 (UTC), Ian Smith
wrote:


snip


Judith has declared that even though concrete is a mixture of cement
and aggregate, if the aggregate is breeze it shall suddenly not be
called concrete.


Not quite - I have said that a concrete block and a breeze block are quite
different things.


The terms are not interchangeable.


If I show you a picture of what is clearly a breeze block *- and you do not
know what one of those is - then I can understand you claiming that it is a
concrete block.


Did you not like Portland Cement explanation?


"Concrete is made up of three basic components: water, aggregate (rock, sand,
or gravel) and Portland cement."


The problem with that, Judith, is the list in parentheses is not an
exhaustive list of possible aggregates in concrete.


She is very mono, isn't she?

Judith:-"So you would be quite happy to buy a bag of Portland Cement -
and find that you had bought a bag with ash and slag in it?"

She ignores the quoted fact that Portland Cement can contain ash, so
the bag can contain ash whether I like it or not. So concrete using
Portland cement can contain ash already.

Anyway she has now thanked me for my example of concrete blocks with
ash in, so that's something.

--------------------------------------------
"Concrete blocks are made from cast concrete, i.e. Portland cement and
aggregate, usually sand and fine gravel for high-density blocks. Lower
density blocks may use industrial wastes as an aggregate. Those that
use cinders (fly ash or bottom ash) are called cinder blocks in the
US, breeze blocks (breeze is a synonym of ash)[1] in the UK and are
also known as besser blocks or bricks in Australia."

So breeze blocks are lower density concrete blocks using ash as an
aggregate.


Ads
  #102  
Old April 29th 12, 07:57 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Dave - Cyclists VOR
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Posts: 7,703
Default The Shed Thread

On 29/04/2012 17:36, Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 16:12:24 +0100,
wrote:

On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 08:08:27 +0000 (UTC), Ian
wrote:

snip


Judith has declared that even though concrete is a mixture of cement
and aggregate, if the aggregate is breeze it shall suddenly not be
called concrete.



Not quite - I have said that a concrete block and a breeze block are quite
different things.

The terms are not interchangeable.

If I show you a picture of what is clearly a breeze block - and you do not
know what one of those is - then I can understand you claiming that it is a
concrete block.

Did you not like Portland Cement explanation?

"Concrete is made up of three basic components: water, aggregate (rock, sand,
or gravel) and Portland cement."


The problem with that, Judith, is the list in parentheses is not an
exhaustive list of possible aggregates in concrete.

Get that - that is what "concrete" is made from. It does not say that ash may
be used as an alternative

Feel free to point out any blocks made from cinders and ash which are sold as
concrete blocks.

If you go in to a building suppliers and ask to buy some concrete blocks I will
guarantee that they will not provide breeze blocks. (If they do, then you need
to make a post to uk.legal)

If you ask for breeze blocks - then I guarantee that they will not supply solid
concrete blocks.

I am sorry that you are too thick to understand this - in fact, more like a
concrete block than a breeze block : rather denser.


Notice how he picks up on a minor nit picky point, yet fails to answer
any of the others?

Mind you, he's been wriggling for years;

"Tom Crispin feels he has been misquoted. As Fahri’s only male primary
teacher, he says the comment must have come from him, although he has no
recollection of making it".

--
Dave - Cyclists VOR. "Many people barely recognise the bicycle as a
legitimate mode of transport; it is either a toy for children or a
vehicle fit only for the poor and/or strange," Dave Horton - Lancaster
University
  #103  
Old April 29th 12, 08:05 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Judith[_4_]
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Posts: 11,000
Default The Shed Thread

On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 10:17:44 -0700 (PDT), Squashme wrote:

snip


She ignores the quoted fact that Portland Cement can contain ash



Oh dear, oh dear - you have made my point much better than I could have done.

"Please could I have a bag of Portland Cement. Certainly madam, do you want
the one containing ash - or the ash-free version"


  #104  
Old April 29th 12, 08:07 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Judith[_4_]
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Posts: 11,000
Default The Shed Thread

On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 17:02:26 +0000 (UTC), Ian Smith
wrote:

On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 08:38:22 -0700 (PDT), Squashme wrote:

Didn't the Romans make concrete before Portland cement was invented
in the early 19th Century?


The romans made a pozzolanic concrete yes. There is no requirement
that the cement in concrete be portland cement - it's just that
portland cement is by far the most common cement in use today.

Portland cement was (so far as the inventor's intention was concerned)
a failure, since he was trying to invent a cheaper imitation for
portland stone (hence the name), and for that, his material was not at
all useful. Even within the family of portland cement, there are
numerous variants and 'recipes'.

(Apparently Portland cement can contain fly ash and slag.)


No, cement is one thing and fly ash and slag is another. GGBFS and
ground ash are added for two reasons - they can be ground incredibly
fine, and act as sub-microscopic aggregate, and they can also be
pozzolanic - which means that the grains don't fully convert
chemically, but there is a crystal growth mechanism on the surfaces
that cause the grains to stick weakly together. Pozzolanic reaction,
however, are much less energetic than portland cement reactions, so if
you use a cement substitute you can have much less heat to deal with.
Dealing with the heat of hydration is a big source of aggravation in
massive pours, and even in modest pours a lot of the workmanship
requirements revolve around controlling early thermal cracking.

http://flyash.sustainablesources.com/

"Thirty percent of the flyash in the US is recycled into making
concrete."


Yes, as a cement substitute, but that doesn't make it cement.

"Concrete additives have been used since Roman and Egyptian times,
when it was discovered that adding volcanic ash to the mix allowed
it to set under water."


I think that's wrong - I don't know what the author is getting at but
most cements set under water (I think all modern cements do, but I'm
not an expert at roman materials). Cement setting is a hydration
process. Indeed, when you're doing careful strength testing you cure
your concrete samples submerged in water, and most of the curing
methods in structural work are trying to simulate concrete being under
water - from the low tech soaked hessian to the high tech sprayed
membranes.

I suspect the author has paraphrased something along the lines of 'the
romans discovered that adding ground volcanic ash to sand and gravel
produced a material that set hard, even under water' which was
comparing it to clay bricks or rammed earth type technology, not some
grade of concrete.

regards Ian SMith




Thanks for giving him a stuffing - saves me doing it.

  #105  
Old April 29th 12, 08:18 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Judith[_4_]
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Posts: 11,000
Default The Shed Thread

On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 19:57:36 +0100, Dave - Cyclists VOR
wrote:

snip


"Tom Crispin feels he has been misquoted. As Fahri’s only male primary
teacher, he says the comment must have come from him, although he has no
recollection of making it".




I don't think that you should keep repeating that ......








...... it may make him very cross.


  #106  
Old April 29th 12, 08:55 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling,uk.d-i-y
Newshound
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Posts: 2
Default The Shed Thread



Surely uk.d-i-y could settle this argument? Medway will respect them.

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-breeze-block.htm


I think this link is wrong. I think Breeze blocks date from the 50's
(perhaps earlier?) and were made with some sort of clinker or slag.
Certainly they were much harder to drill than today's standard (not
lightweight) concrete blocks. I suspect it might have been a proprietary
name.

  #107  
Old April 29th 12, 09:36 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling,uk.d-i-y
Squashme
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,146
Default The Shed Thread

On Apr 29, 8:55*pm, newshound wrote:
Surely uk.d-i-y could settle this argument? Medway will respect them.


http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-breeze-block.htm


I think this link is wrong. I think Breeze blocks date from the 50's
(perhaps earlier?) and were made with some sort of clinker or slag.
Certainly they were much harder to drill than today's standard (not
lightweight) concrete blocks. I suspect it might have been a proprietary
name.


Elsewhere on the web says 1930s.

Wikipedia has this:-
"Concrete blocks are made from cast concrete, i.e. Portland cement and
aggregate, usually sand and fine gravel for high-density blocks. Lower
density blocks may use industrial wastes as an aggregate. Those that
use cinders (fly ash or bottom ash) are called cinder blocks in the
US, breeze blocks (breeze is a synonym of ash)[1] in the UK and are
also known as besser blocks or bricks in Australia."

So breeze blocks are lower density concrete blocks using ash as an
aggregate.

We had someone called Judith on URC saying:-
"Breeze blocks are not made out of concrete - they are made out of ash
and
cinder."

The web has this:-
"Breeze block - a light concrete building block made with cinder
aggregate; "cinder blocks are called breeze blocks in Britain""

---------------------------------------------------
Judith:- "Feel free to point out any blocks made from cinders and ash
which are sold as concrete blocks."

On the web
"Lignacite Ltd Ashlite concrete blocks comprise a range of medium
dense, load bearing units, used in internal or external walls. Ashlite
is a light weight, robust and durable block ideal for plastering and
flooring. The blocks are manufactured from cement, sand, ash and other
lightweight aggregates, and it contains 100% recycled aggregates and
is compliant with the BREEAM standard."
  #108  
Old April 29th 12, 09:40 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Bertie Wooster[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,958
Default The Shed Thread

On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 20:18:41 +0100, Judith
wrote:

On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 19:57:36 +0100, Dave - Cyclists VOR
wrote:

snip


"Tom Crispin feels he has been misquoted. As Fahri’s only male primary
teacher, he says the comment must have come from him, although he has no
recollection of making it".




I don't think that you should keep repeating that ......








..... it may make him very cross.


Don't judge others by your own low standards - or you might think that
a carefree GFY (good for you) means something far more angry.
  #109  
Old April 29th 12, 10:11 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling,uk.d-i-y
Rod Speed
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,488
Default The Shed Thread

Squashme wrote
newshound wrote


Surely uk.d-i-y could settle this argument? Medway will respect them.


http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-breeze-block.htm


I think this link is wrong. I think Breeze blocks date from the 50's
(perhaps earlier?) and were made with some sort of clinker or slag.
Certainly they were much harder to drill than today's standard (not
lightweight) concrete blocks. I suspect it might have been a proprietary
name.


Elsewhere on the web says 1930s.


Wikipedia has this:-
"Concrete blocks are made from cast concrete, i.e. Portland cement and
aggregate, usually sand and fine gravel for high-density blocks. Lower
density blocks may use industrial wastes as an aggregate. Those that
use cinders (fly ash or bottom ash) are called cinder blocks in the
US, breeze blocks (breeze is a synonym of ash)[1] in the UK and are
also known as besser blocks or bricks in Australia."


That last isnt right. That name is used for all concrete blocks
and we don't have many at all made from industrial waste.

So breeze blocks are lower density concrete blocks using ash as an
aggregate.


We had someone called Judith on URC saying:-
"Breeze blocks are not made out of concrete - they are made out of ash
and cinder."


The web has this:-
"Breeze block - a light concrete building block made with cinder
aggregate; "cinder blocks are called breeze blocks in Britain""

---------------------------------------------------
Judith:- "Feel free to point out any blocks made from
cinders and ash which are sold as concrete blocks."


On the web
"Lignacite Ltd Ashlite concrete blocks comprise a range of medium
dense, load bearing units, used in internal or external walls. Ashlite
is a light weight, robust and durable block ideal for plastering and
flooring. The blocks are manufactured from cement, sand, ash and other
lightweight aggregates, and it contains 100% recycled aggregates and
is compliant with the BREEAM standard."

  #110  
Old April 29th 12, 10:35 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling,uk.d-i-y
Squashme
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,146
Default The Shed Thread

On Apr 29, 10:11*pm, "Rod Speed" wrote:
Squashme wrote





newshound wrote
Surely uk.d-i-y could settle this argument? Medway will respect them.
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-breeze-block.htm
I think this link is wrong. I think Breeze blocks date from the 50's
(perhaps earlier?) and were made with some sort of clinker or slag.
Certainly they were much harder to drill than today's standard (not
lightweight) concrete blocks. I suspect it might have been a proprietary
name.

Elsewhere on the web says 1930s.
Wikipedia has this:-
"Concrete blocks are made from cast concrete, i.e. Portland cement and
aggregate, usually sand and fine gravel for high-density blocks. Lower
density blocks may use industrial wastes as an aggregate. Those that
use cinders (fly ash or bottom ash) are called cinder blocks in the
US, breeze blocks (breeze is a synonym of ash)[1] in the UK and are
also known as besser blocks or bricks in Australia."


That last isnt right. That name is used for all concrete blocks
and we don't have many at all made from industrial waste.


In Australia, I trust?




So breeze blocks are lower density concrete blocks using ash as an
aggregate.
We had someone called Judith on URC saying:-
"Breeze blocks are not made out of concrete - they are made out of ash
and cinder."
The web has this:-
"Breeze block - a light concrete building block made with cinder
aggregate; "cinder blocks are called breeze blocks in Britain""


---------------------------------------------------
Judith:- "Feel free to point out any blocks made from
cinders and ash which are sold as concrete blocks."
On the web
"Lignacite Ltd Ashlite concrete blocks comprise a range of medium
dense, load bearing units, used in internal or external walls. Ashlite
is a light weight, robust and durable block ideal for plastering and
flooring. The blocks are manufactured from cement, sand, ash and other
lightweight aggregates, and it contains 100% recycled aggregates and
is compliant with the BREEAM standard."- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


 




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