Evaulating a bike

RonSonic wrote:
ou.


The part that got my attention is the simultaineous idea that either a $500
wheelset or a $1000 bike was needed. That bike isn't going to have anything like
that type of wheelset on it. Doesn't need it either.

I reasoned that the wheels are the interface between the bike/rider and
the surface so would take 50% of the cost of the equipment like the
speakers do in a hi fi system. You put your effort at the interface -
general rule.

OK, I'm wrong. I'm learning.

-paul

Donald Gillies wrote:

When I last bought a bike in 2000, I looked mainly at these issues:

a. Fit.


c. Materials.


d. Looks and Theft-Prevention.


There is no 'b'?



--
Tom Reingold
Noo Joizy
This email address works, but only for a short time.

wrote:
Paul Cassel wrote:



Where did $500 for the wheels come from? I kind of thought the
borrowed biek would come to you sort of complete except for a few
missing parts. If you have to buy a new set of wheels, then I'm not
sure its that great of a deal. Cheap wheelsets that will function well
enough can be had mail order from Nashbar or other mail order places.
Maybe a local shop has some wheels taken off another bike they can sell
cheap. Cheap being the key word here. Assuming the borrowed bike is a
freewheel bike, you should be able to find these wheelsets really
cheap. At the very most a new set of freewheel type wheels should cost
$100. Or less.

The wheels roll for sure. I figured if I could buy this bike cheap, and
have a $1,000 budget for a new bike if I made that decision, then I have
money left over to buy a good wheelset. The owner said the wheels aren't
nearly up to the quality of the rest of the bike. Given that the drive
train / brakes are Dura Ace, which I've learned is the top of the line,
I figured to get the entire bike equal which means a more expensive
wheelset - although I can't tell you what you buy with more outlay. But
I also can't tell you why Dura Ace is so good.

I figured you put your big bucks where the interfaces are so the road
interface is the wheels. I also figured the guy who sold the bike to my
buddy took off great wheels which is why the ones on it aren't any good.
They are true (I trued them). I don't know what makes them bad.

The crankset I mentioned comes with 50-34 tooth rings on it. It costs
more money to replace chainrings. Money that could be used to buy a
new bike if you start replacing parts on replacement parts before you
even use them. The 50 will work for most riding around. The 34 will
work very well for any hills.


I think I'll start with a cogset and see how that works. I am ok putting
on parts which I can take off if I can't buy this bike or I choose not
to, but I guess a crank is specific for a bike or I'll buy my new bike
around a crank which I think is silly.


You can get a very nice road bicycle for $1000. Look for sales at bike
shops or mail order. Its best to know what size you need if ordering
mail order. Probably crucial to know your correct size. That you get
from riding and figuring it out.

http://www.gvhbikes.com/welcome.html I had dealings with the original
Gary V Hobbs. Guessing the new owner is carrying on the good customer
service.

I think given my newness at this point, I'd only buy mail order very
cheaply or from a trusted source. I think I'm an obvious candidate for
the LBS to make a sale.



Cone wrenches to fit the hubs. Use a vernier caliper to figure out the
size of the inner ones. 13/14 and 15/16 and 17 should cover most
things. Traditional crank puller for square taper cranksets. Assuming
that is what is on the bike now. If you get a new crank/bottom bracket
then you will have to get a new crank puller for the new crank (ISIS or
Octalink specific). Bottom bracket hook tool for the locking ring.
Assuming that is the kind of bottom bracket you have now. New style
for a new bottom bracket. Pin spanner to adjust the old bottom
bracket. Headset wrench 32 mm. Freewheel removal tool. Assume
Suntour style with 4 notches. Chain whip. Crescent wrench and metric
wrenches and metric Allen wrenches are also needed but I assume you
have these already.

OK, thanks very much for that list. It seems affordable. I do have all
manner of conventional tools for working on my motorcycles. In fact, I
have a full on shop. What does a chain whip do? The only thing I know
about that I'd call a chain whip is a pipe wrench sort of affair.



Cheap dual pivot brakes can be head from Nashbar that will work fine.
Lots of power and easy to squeeze. Cheap too.


I never thought of that. I'll check.



If you knew what you were doing you could probably replace a few parts
and get by cheap. But if you have to replace quite a few parts the
owner takes for himself and then pay for what is left and then replace
a few more to make it satisfactory for you to ride, .... You might be
close to half or more of the cost of a new bike.

If I knew what I was doing, I'd be giving instead of soliciting
advice here. I've probably learned more from this thread about bike
mechanicals than I have in my few months of road riding including
reading many magazines.

I don't mind putting in some parts that the owner takes with him if we
don't come to a bargain. After all, I AM getting use from this bike so
some rental in the form of my improving it is not only reasonable, but
something I'd like to do. After all, I'm wearing out HIS machine.

-paul

maxo wrote:
On Mon, 08 Aug 2005 10:42:15 -0600, Paul Cassel wrote:


I bought a book by Zinn on fixing
bikes and have been banging away on this bike some, but now seem to need
about $140 in tools such as cone wrenches to continue.


You can get a bike tool kit from Nashbar for a pittance:

http://tinyurl.com/azvtq

$40

Or get the individual tools you need, I got a Pedros headset spanner, a
Park cone wrench, and a basic chain tool for under $5usd each in my last
order.

If you're using XTR on your mtb--Dura Ace probably isn't going to feel any
better--but it's going to last a long time, it's quality stuff.

Replace your brake pads with something like a nice set of Koolstops will
give you a huge improvement in braking. If they're vintage calipers, the
Continentals are your better choice. Cheap too, about $8 for two pairs on
Ebay.

I've got a motorcycle too, and believe me, it's refreshing to work on
bicycles in comparison. So, so simple. You can overhaul all your bearings
and cables on a bike in a couple hours plus or minus beer breaks. Very
satisfying compared to spending those same hours diagnosing a carb issue.
LOL

Nashbar kit is is then. Others have suggested the koolstops so I'm doing
that too. I just got the brakes properly adjusted so they hit at the
same time, but it's not very good anyway. Seeing my 12 y.o. daughter do
a stoppie just to rub in that I can't stop very well was pretty funny.

I'm looking forward to getting decent working on bikes. I do miss a
stand which I have for my motorcycles, but not suitable for bicycles. Is
there a standard maintenance schedule posted on the 'Net somewhere? Like
"every 500 miles or 30 hours grease the...." type of schedule?

Tom Reingold wrote:

Are you asking how to upgrade your friend's bike or how to decide what
(or whether) to buy new?

Trying to evaluate the decision. Since the bike does fit me and doesnt'
seem to be laughable tech, I am going to keep it.

If it's an old bike, don't spend too much on an upgrade. I have an old
bike and spend carefully. You get the most bang for your buck by buying
tires! We often overlook tires. Get some supple smooth-tread tires and
inflate them to 100 psi.

Old tires fell apart so I got some on sale Huchinsons for $10 / ea. They
are smooth and I have them inflated to 100 psi. The bike handles much
better now.

If the bike doesn't have clipless pedals, get some of those.

Did it.

If the bike fits you well enough for you to spend hours on it, it's
right for you. The rest is so much window dressing without much
functional difference, as long as it all works well.


You are in line with the general concensus which is why I'm sticking if
he'll sell. Also, and this probably sounds stupid, but I've grown to
LIKE this bike over the miles "we've" covered. It's like the bike and I
have grown to be friends. There is a definite bond there that at least I
feel.

Now you've got your laugh for a day, but I do have an attachment for
this machine.

Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:




So I ask this group - is there anything new under the sun which is
significant in bike tech which would cause me to be happier on a new
tech bike such as the Giant OCR1 composite which is what I'm considering?


Not really. Way to much emphasis on new gadgets of todays road
bicycles. Fit is the most important thing, all else pales in
comparison. Lever mounted shifting is nice to have, clipless pedals
also but the rest, in materials, goofy wheels, carbn this or that,
makes little difference.

Funny comment coming from the owner of an LBS, but I admire your
honesty. Sometimes a fancy rig will make you feel better about yourself
so your performance may improve.

I'm nothing in riding bicycles but I was a serious endurance athlete
when I was distance running. OK, I took myself seriously even if the
sport didn't.

We used to say, and really mean, that the mentals is the defining
element in a performance. It means that once I ran a marathon so fast
that my best friend, waiting at the finish line, seriously asked me if I
cut the course. I didn't know what he meeant until I looked at the
clock. I was so fast that I thought I was misreading the clock, but the
watchers confirmed my time later on. I did do the entire course.

Another time I finished a half in PR time feeling stronger at the end
than I did at the start. These are all mental things which is part of
conditioning as well.

If a person can buy a bike for $6,000, the tech may not help him, but if
it pumps up his mentals, he WILL do much better on it than he would on
his previous ride. So while I can't discuss bikes at your level, I can
make an arguement for the new fancy equipment - if it does have a
positive mental effect on the rider.

-paul

Paul Cassel wrote:
I've grown to
LIKE this bike over the miles "we've" covered. It's like the bike and I
have grown to be friends. There is a definite bond there that at least I
feel.

That's a good reason for keeping it.

Cogset is the same as cluster.

Kool Stop black pads are very good but the "salmon" ones are even
better.


If you are interested in wheels read this book:
http://tinyurl.com/3tars

You'll notice that the author is a regular poster to this forum. If you
read advice of his take it seriously.

I don't agree with everything in the following but you would do well to
try looking at these:

http://tinyurl.com/dkptr
http://tinyurl.com/dhlvx

In particular read the FAQs to this newsgroup, which can be found in a
link from the second link above, i.e. at

http://tinyurl.com/a5dvn


Random bicycles I like with fenders (mostly), in no particular order:
http://tinyurl.com/dupfv
http://tinyurl.com/7ma9z
http://tinyurl.com/8xl7e
http://tinyurl.com/5xwmk
http://tinyurl.com/cz5wf
http://tinyurl.com/axooo
http://tinyurl.com/8sewx


Good luck and have many great rides.o

On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 09:44:31 -0600, Paul Cassel wrote:

Nashbar kit is is then. Others have suggested the koolstops so I'm doing
that too. I just got the brakes properly adjusted so they hit at the same
time, but it's not very good anyway. Seeing my 12 y.o. daughter do a
stoppie just to rub in that I can't stop very well was pretty funny.

Yeah, you really can't go wrong with the Koolstops, and if they're older
single pivot side-pulls--the Continental model is brilliant. Nothing
compares. Silent, zero rim wear, and they last forever.

I was thinking about replacing my ancient Shimano 600 calipers with new
dual pivots as I'd put very expensive new cartridge pads in them and the
braking still sucked--then a nice person on these groups knocked some
sense into me--the pads were all the improvement I needed. 1/4 the price
of the "boutique" pads the LBS sold me--and better.


I'm looking forward to getting decent working on bikes. I do miss a
stand which I have for my motorcycles, but not suitable for bicycles. Is
there a standard maintenance schedule posted on the 'Net somewhere? Like
"every 500 miles or 30 hours grease the...." type of schedule?

Varies as to riding conditions and type of bearings/seal/etc. I do
drivetrain when it sounds noisy or looks grubby. Wheel bearings I repack
once per year as a matter of habit, it's quick and easy. Headset and
bottom bracket--repack or replace as necessary. Whenever you've got your
chain off, turn your cranks and see if they're smooth, and wiggle the arms
to see if the BB is loose. Headsets: does it turn smoothly from side to
side? With the front brake locked, does the fork move in the head tube
when you rock the bike back and forth? If yes, tighten and/or repack, if
no, forgettaboutit. If you're a fair weather rider, you'll probably only
deal with drivetrain cleanliness for the most part, once you've got
everything dialed in.

"Paul Cassel" wrote in message
...

I was the same until I got some good advice and started playing with my
bike's adjustments plus I got a high end seat. Curiously, the seat I got
has almost no padding while the seat I ditched has a lot.

I have a helluva time convincing people that padded does not mean
comfortable. They look at my Brooks and think I'm into punishment.

It's the most comfortable saddle I've owned.

Bob Koreis

On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 08:54:02 -0600, Paul Cassel wrote:

I think I can build a bike.

I'm sure you can, it's not very difficult--the reason I lamented the lack
of a pre-built Surly Pacer was that it's usually cheaper to get a prebuilt
ride than to piece something together, as you're not going to be able to
source parts the same way shops do.

If you've got the bucks, it's very satisfying to build your own.

The Ramboullet and the Pacer's big difference, other than the fact that
the former is quite a bit more tour oriented in the ride and braze-on
department--is price. The former is gorgeous with nice lugs and a very
pretty finish, the Pacer is 1/3 the price, smartly designed, and
powdercoated a solid color with decals you can peel off. Different
priorities. Both very nice.