EU to force daytime use of headlights?

"John Pitcock" wrote in message
o.uk...
I've sent this to uk.rec.cycling as cyclists are concerned about the
drivers who can't see anything that doesn't have two bright lights - as
happens now in the dark.

But a large number of cyclists seem to think that they can be seen when they
have stupid flashing led lights at the back, if they were to use proper
lights they would be able to be seen sooner as the lights would be clearer.

Alan

Alan Holmes wrote:

"John Pitcock" wrote in message
o.uk...
I've sent this to uk.rec.cycling as cyclists are concerned about the
drivers who can't see anything that doesn't have two bright lights - as
happens now in the dark.

But a large number of cyclists seem to think that they can be seen when they
have stupid flashing led lights at the back, if they were to use proper
lights they would be able to be seen sooner as the lights would be clearer.

'Proper' lights have very poor range compared with LED lights.

I'm not convinced that having them flashing helps, but it can't do any
harm.


--
SteveH 'You're not a real petrolhead unless you've owned an Alfa Romeo'
www.italiancar.co.uk - Honda VFR800 - Hongdou GY200 - Alfa 75 TSpark
Alfa 156 TSpark - B6 Passat 2.0TDI SE - COSOC KOTL
BOTAFOT #87 - BOTAFOF #18 - MRO # - UKRMSBC #7 - Apostle #2 - YTC #

SteveH wrote:
Alan Holmes wrote:
But a large number of cyclists seem to think that they can be seen when they
have stupid flashing led lights at the back, if they were to use proper
lights they would be able to be seen sooner as the lights would be clearer.

'Proper' lights have very poor range compared with LED lights.

I agree.. and have had cars dip their headlights on country lanes
because they have seen my front light illuminate the chevon sign as we
approached the same corner

I'm not convinced that having them flashing helps, but it can't do any
harm.

I think for a back light it helps draw attention (and I generally use
mine in such a mode), but what I don't understand (as a cyclist) is a
flashing front light, it would drive me mad!

(follow ups set to uk.rec.cycling only)

Alan Holmes ) gurgled happily, sounding much
like they were saying :

But a large number of cyclists seem to think that they can be seen
when they have stupid flashing led lights at the back, if they were to
use proper lights they would be able to be seen sooner as the lights
would be clearer.

I thought lights were of no use to *be seen by*, since everybody on the
road has bionic powers of vision? Make your mind up, Alan.

In article , Alan Holmes wrote:

But a large number of cyclists seem to think that they can be seen when they
have stupid flashing led lights at the back, if they were to use proper
lights they would be able to be seen sooner as the lights would be clearer.

Every study I've seen quoted says that flashing lights are more noticeable
in the first place, but harder to localise. So non-flashing lights might be
clearer in some sense, but likely to be seen later, not sooner.

mblewett wrote:

I think for a back light it helps draw attention (and I generally use
mine in such a mode), but what I don't understand (as a cyclist) is a
flashing front light, it would drive me mad!

I think flashing mode on a front light is useful in built up areas with
strong street lighting as an aid to being seen. It's useless though for
illuminating the road.

--
Dave...

"dkahn400" wrote in message
oups.com...
mblewett wrote:

I think for a back light it helps draw attention (and I generally use
mine in such a mode), but what I don't understand (as a cyclist) is a
flashing front light, it would drive me mad!

I think flashing mode on a front light is useful in built up areas with
strong street lighting as an aid to being seen. It's useless though for
illuminating the road.

The strobe effect of a flashing front light makes it dangerous for the rider
to use in the dark, as the resultant 'freeze frame' ruins the ability to
judge speed and distance. To demonstrate this, you need a darkend room with
a strobe light. If you run towards someone, lit only by the strobe, you will
be astounded by how quickly you reach them.

--
David Lloyd,
The pub is responsible for my opinions.

SteveH wrote:

'Proper' lights have very poor range compared with LED lights.

LEDs are definitely better than filament lamps for cyclists.

I'm not convinced that having them flashing helps, but it can't do any
harm.

It is much harder to get a "fix" on a flashing light. With a steady
light, you can quickly work out exactly where it is, which way it is
going and how fast. With a flashing light, that takes a lot longer,
and is likely to distract your attention away from other potential
hazards.

--
Stevie D
\\\\\ ///// Bringing dating agencies to the
\\\\\\\__X__/////// common hedgehog since 2001 - "HedgeHugs"
___\\\\\\\'/ \'///////_____________________________________________

"Alan Holmes" wrote in message
...

"John Pitcock" wrote in message
o.uk...
I've sent this to uk.rec.cycling as cyclists are concerned about the
drivers who can't see anything that doesn't have two bright lights - as
happens now in the dark.

But a large number of cyclists seem to think that they can be seen when
they
have stupid flashing led lights at the back, if they were to use proper
lights they would be able to be seen sooner as the lights would be
clearer.

Reply from a contributor to uk.rec.cycling

Anybody who knows anything about visual perception will know that a flashing
light is more easily seen than a static light. Flashing lights simulate
movement, thus indicating a moving object, which is more easily seen than
something that is static. You just have to watch enough wildlife programs to
know that this is true. Small prey species that cannot out-run the hunters
will use camouflage and remain still, in the hope that they will not be
spotted. This is why indicators on cars were changed from static lights to
flashing lights.

Before anyone thinks 'Oh no, here's a cycling nut/car hater trying to start
a flame war', I'll tell you that I am a Design Engineer in the automotive
industry and that I designed the bonnet and trunk hinges and the fuel filler
flap an the Jaguar XK8, the bonnet and trunk hinges on the Aston Martin DB7,
the fuel flap, bonnet and all tailgate hinges on the Range Rover P38A. I was
the launch Engineer for the front seat slides in the original Ford Focus and
I redesigned the Freelander rear seats to take isofix child seat anchorages
for the North American market.

If this legislation goes through, car drivers will soon stop looking for
real hazards and start to just look for lights instead, thus having the
opposite effect to the stated aim.

Whilst I'm here, I might as well say that I don't jump red lights, I think
the police should jump on those cycling at night without lights and
pavements are for walkers. I'll also leave you with a link to a picture of
one of those beautiful cycle paths that sardine can dwellers think cyclist
should compelled to use.

url:http://www.colyer.plus.com/z-corrd.jpg

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I posted the above to uk.rec.driving, but didn't want to continue the
cross-post. Alan Holmes seems to know nothing about visual perception.
Thanks for putting up the picture of the tree lined cycle path, Tony, I
think more should be planted in the middle of roads.

dkahn400 twisted the electrons to say:
I think flashing mode on a front light is useful in built up areas with
strong street lighting as an aid to being seen. It's useless though for
illuminating the road.

Not to mention those (fortunately reasonably rare) cyclists using
flashing orange LEDs on the front ... No chance of confusion there!
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...