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Bikes Running Red Lights



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 10th 03, 09:30 AM
Andrew Swan
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Default Bikes Running Red Lights

Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
ask, do you run red lights:

(a) never
(b) depends if there's anyone watching
(c) depends if there's any drivers watching
(d) depends if there's any bike/car cops watching
(e) depends if there's any cops watching
(f) depends if there's any danger to me
(g) depends if there's any danger to anyone else
(h) if the light goes red when the bunch I'm in is halfway through
(might be a special case of (g) or not)
(i) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed (which is
actually legal, as the in-road sensors can't always [never?] detect
bikes and not all lights are on a timer all day)

soapbox
My opinion is this: if the only person you affected when you ran a red
was yourself, I'd say do what you like - it's your money/health if you
get fined/injured. However, it's not just about you. Like it or not, 80%
of motorists (i.e. ignoring the extreme ends of the bell curve) will
show cyclists respect and consideration in direct proportion to the
regard that we (as a body) show for the road rules. You can't expect
motorists to honour your road rights (e.g. a lane to yourself) if you
flout your obligations on the road.
/soapbox

P.S. This sounds like a troll, but it's something I actually feel
strongly about. Surely the inconvenience of stopping at a few lights
(and let's face it, there's usually no good reason why you can't, if
you're riding responsibly) is worth it if it means we get better
treatment in general? I know we are all equal road users in the eye of
the law, but the reality is when push comes to shove, 1000kg of metal
beats 8-20 kg of bike. We need all the goodwill we can generate, because
if it turns into a jungle, we are the mewling baby birds on the forest
floor.

P.P.S. If this was really a troll, I would have x-posted to aus.cars! :-)

&roo

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  #2  
Old September 10th 03, 09:37 AM
Andrew Swan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bikes Running Red Lights

Andrew Swan wrote:
Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
ask, do you run red lights:

(a) never
(b) depends if there's anyone watching
(c) depends if there's any drivers watching
(d) depends if there's any bike/car cops watching
(e) depends if there's any cops watching
(f) depends if there's any danger to me
(g) depends if there's any danger to anyone else
(h) if the light goes red when the bunch I'm in is halfway through
(might be a special case of (g) or not)
(i) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed (which is
actually legal, as the in-road sensors can't always [never?] detect
bikes and not all lights are on a timer all day)

soapbox
My opinion is this: if the only person you affected when you ran a red
was yourself, I'd say do what you like - it's your money/health if you
get fined/injured. However, it's not just about you. Like it or not, 80%
of motorists (i.e. ignoring the extreme ends of the bell curve) will
show cyclists respect and consideration in direct proportion to the
regard that we (as a body) show for the road rules. You can't expect
motorists to honour your road rights (e.g. a lane to yourself) if you
flout your obligations on the road.
/soapbox

P.S. This sounds like a troll, but it's something I actually feel
strongly about. Surely the inconvenience of stopping at a few lights
(and let's face it, there's usually no good reason why you can't, if
you're riding responsibly) is worth it if it means we get better
treatment in general? I know we are all equal road users in the eye of
the law, but the reality is when push comes to shove, 1000kg of metal
beats 8-20 kg of bike. We need all the goodwill we can generate, because
if it turns into a jungle, we are the mewling baby birds on the forest
floor.

P.P.S. If this was really a troll, I would have x-posted to aus.cars!
:-)

&roo

Forgot option (j): depends if any of my mates will rag me for stopping

&roo

  #3  
Old September 10th 03, 09:37 AM
Andrew Swan
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bikes Running Red Lights

Andrew Swan wrote:
Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
ask, do you run red lights:

(a) never
(b) depends if there's anyone watching
(c) depends if there's any drivers watching
(d) depends if there's any bike/car cops watching
(e) depends if there's any cops watching
(f) depends if there's any danger to me
(g) depends if there's any danger to anyone else
(h) if the light goes red when the bunch I'm in is halfway through
(might be a special case of (g) or not)
(i) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed (which is
actually legal, as the in-road sensors can't always [never?] detect
bikes and not all lights are on a timer all day)

soapbox
My opinion is this: if the only person you affected when you ran a red
was yourself, I'd say do what you like - it's your money/health if you
get fined/injured. However, it's not just about you. Like it or not, 80%
of motorists (i.e. ignoring the extreme ends of the bell curve) will
show cyclists respect and consideration in direct proportion to the
regard that we (as a body) show for the road rules. You can't expect
motorists to honour your road rights (e.g. a lane to yourself) if you
flout your obligations on the road.
/soapbox

P.S. This sounds like a troll, but it's something I actually feel
strongly about. Surely the inconvenience of stopping at a few lights
(and let's face it, there's usually no good reason why you can't, if
you're riding responsibly) is worth it if it means we get better
treatment in general? I know we are all equal road users in the eye of
the law, but the reality is when push comes to shove, 1000kg of metal
beats 8-20 kg of bike. We need all the goodwill we can generate, because
if it turns into a jungle, we are the mewling baby birds on the forest
floor.

P.P.S. If this was really a troll, I would have x-posted to aus.cars!
:-)

&roo

Forgot option (j): depends if any of my mates will rag me for stopping

&roo

  #4  
Old September 10th 03, 11:26 AM
John Doe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bikes Running Red Lights

I never run red lights for the reasons you mentioned. I obey all traffic
rules.

Peter


  #5  
Old September 10th 03, 11:26 AM
John Doe
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bikes Running Red Lights

I never run red lights for the reasons you mentioned. I obey all traffic
rules.

Peter


  #6  
Old September 10th 03, 12:10 PM
Brunswick_kate
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bikes Running Red Lights

Andrew Swan wrote:
Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
ask, do you run red lights:
((i) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed (which is
actually legal, as the in-road sensors can't always [never?] detect
bikes and not all lights are on a timer all day)




As you mention, this isn't illegal.

I do cop to having done "rolling stop signs" on the bike trails but upon
reflection, have decided it's pretty hypocritical of me to run those and
then bitch about people on bikes ignoring the rules they don't like.
Solution: I'm giving up the sections of the cycling path where these
stop signs are every 200 m through a residential neighbourhood and
sticking to the road ways where I won't be inconvenienced by the
continuous stop and go thing.

Hope you've got room on that soapbox for 2 because I'm right
there with you.



--
Insanity has its price -- Please have exact change.

--------------------------

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http://www.cyclingforums.com
  #7  
Old September 10th 03, 12:10 PM
Brunswick_kate
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bikes Running Red Lights

Andrew Swan wrote:
Another thread talked about cops running red lights. This prompts me to
ask, do you run red lights:
((i) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed (which is
actually legal, as the in-road sensors can't always [never?] detect
bikes and not all lights are on a timer all day)




As you mention, this isn't illegal.

I do cop to having done "rolling stop signs" on the bike trails but upon
reflection, have decided it's pretty hypocritical of me to run those and
then bitch about people on bikes ignoring the rules they don't like.
Solution: I'm giving up the sections of the cycling path where these
stop signs are every 200 m through a residential neighbourhood and
sticking to the road ways where I won't be inconvenienced by the
continuous stop and go thing.

Hope you've got room on that soapbox for 2 because I'm right
there with you.



--
Insanity has its price -- Please have exact change.

--------------------------

Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com
  #8  
Old September 10th 03, 01:52 PM
Real LITE guy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bikes Running Red Lights

(i) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed

ALSO

If there is no traffic in sight and I have my wits about me (not tired
or pre-occupied), I'll coast on through.

That implies paying close attention and not assuming safety.



--
--------------------------

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http://www.cyclingforums.com
  #9  
Old September 10th 03, 01:52 PM
Real LITE guy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bikes Running Red Lights

(i) if I've been waiting ages and they haven't changed

ALSO

If there is no traffic in sight and I have my wits about me (not tired
or pre-occupied), I'll coast on through.

That implies paying close attention and not assuming safety.



--
--------------------------

Posted via cyclingforums.com
http://www.cyclingforums.com
  #10  
Old September 10th 03, 02:34 PM
Georgetown_Jay
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bikes Running Red Lights

Nice Thread...

I'm sick & tired of stopping at reds on my ride just to have some idiot
on another bike behind me catch up and roll through the intersection.
Seriously - what's wrong with these people Now each of the
cars waiting at the red to go through the lights is likely a bit more
agitated with “those damn cyclists" and I’m left to contend with them
when the light turns green.

On a positive side I've found it somewhat therapeutic to then catch up
to my ignorant fellow cyclist, inform him of the purpose of a red light,
and leave him staring at my back tire....



--
--------------------------

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