Am I missing something on wheels?

On my "I miss Jobst" I got a lot of smirking comments that were hard to
decipher. Since I can't reply to all of them I started a new post. To
be more specific my Open Pros are 32 spokes with Shimano ultegra hubs.
I paid around $90-100 for a front wheel, and $110-120 for a rear wheel,
on the sets I purchased. Now if I got a lot of mystique with my
purchase I was unaware of that. These wheels were pre-built with only
minor truing necessary on my part. Now if you folk are finding
pre-built wheels that are as good as the OP's for cheaper, I'd sure like
to know about it. All I see when I'm shopping around on-line for wheels
are wheels that cost around $200, with not enough spokes. Please
enlighten me.

On Apr 11, 7:35*am, Cicero Venatio wrote:
On my "I miss Jobst" I got a lot of smirking comments that were hard to
decipher. *Since I can't reply to all of them I started a new post. *To
be more specific my Open Pros are 32 spokes with Shimano ultegra hubs.
I paid around $90-100 for a front wheel, and $110-120 for a rear wheel,
on the sets I purchased. *Now if I got a lot of mystique with my
purchase I was unaware of that. *These wheels were pre-built with only
minor truing necessary on my part. *Now if you folk are finding
pre-built wheels that are as good as the OP's for cheaper, I'd sure like
to know about it. *All I see when I'm shopping around on-line for wheels
are wheels that cost around $200, with not enough spokes. *Please
enlighten me.

For non-racing purposes in the road mode, you can often find Alex R390
rims on Tiagra hubs for under $200. That's a strong socked rim that's
50 heavier than an OP where it matters. They can be dialed to 120kgf
compared to the recommended 90-100 with an OP, giving a more stable
wheel.

The Ultegra/OP combo is commodity and cheaper than the sum of its
parts. Fine if tensioned properly and not clyde ridden, but not nearly
as durable as the cheaper alternative.

On Apr 11, 5:35*am, Cicero Venatio wrote:
On my "I miss Jobst" I got a lot of smirking comments that were hard to
decipher. *Since I can't reply to all of them I started a new post. *To
be more specific my Open Pros are 32 spokes with Shimano ultegra hubs.
I paid around $90-100 for a front wheel, and $110-120 for a rear wheel,
on the sets I purchased. *Now if I got a lot of mystique with my
purchase I was unaware of that. *These wheels were pre-built with only
minor truing necessary on my part. *Now if you folk are finding
pre-built wheels that are as good as the OP's for cheaper, I'd sure like
to know about it. *All I see when I'm shopping around on-line for wheels
are wheels that cost around $200, with not enough spokes. *Please
enlighten me.

Unless you weight over 250lb, I wouldn't worry about the wheels you
have and just ride! The ultegra/Mavic OP wheelset is very durable and
should last you plenty of miles. For around $200, you got a good deal.
What more do you need? If you were having troubles with them, then I
can see the need to ask questions. You don't, so forget all the hoopla
and GO RIDE!!!!

Cicero Venatio wrote:

On my "I miss Jobst" I got a lot of smirking comments that were hard to
decipher. *Since I can't reply to all of them I started a new post. *To
be more specific my Open Pros are 32 spokes with Shimano ultegra hubs.
I paid around $90-100 for a front wheel, and $110-120 for a rear wheel,
on the sets I purchased. *

Full retail on an Open Pro at my shop at today's prices is $116.
That's just plain old normal markup-- the kind that buys you a tube
for $4, an axle kit for $7, or a coaster brake hub for $17. Or an
Alex R390 socketed rim for $45.

If you but some kind of OEM surplus or overruns that happen to get you
some Open Pro wheels for the price of wheels with reasonably priced
rims, fine. You got lucky-- especially if the wheels were well built
when you got them.

But there are plenty of rims that don't have the typical Mavic
problems of cracking, noises, and a specified tension limit that makes
it difficult to keep a highly dished wheel in good condition, and that
cost a whole whopping lot less than a Mavic rim anyway.

If folks crack wise about Mavic rims, it's because the manufacturer is
audacious enough to price them as if there were something very special
about them, when there isn't. On the plus side, they are nicely flat
and round, which makes them easy to build with. On the minus side,
they are more likely to crack or tick than most other rims (just by
odds; they don't all do this). And since you can't lace them as tight
as other comparable rims, they can't carry as large a load reliably,
for any given weight of rim.

Chalo

Cicero Venatio wrote:
On my "I miss Jobst" I got a lot of smirking comments that were hard to
decipher. Since I can't reply to all of them I started a new post. To
be more specific my Open Pros are 32 spokes with Shimano ultegra hubs. I
paid around $90-100 for a front wheel, and $110-120 for a rear wheel, on
the sets I purchased. Now if I got a lot of mystique with my purchase I
was unaware of that. These wheels were pre-built with only minor truing
necessary on my part. Now if you folk are finding pre-built wheels that
are as good as the OP's for cheaper, I'd sure like to know about it.
All I see when I'm shopping around on-line for wheels are wheels that
cost around $200, with not enough spokes. Please enlighten me.

Campagnolo Khamsin are just a bit over that, plenty tough.
Your wheels are lighter. Alex prebuilts are cheaper by far.

There is no absolute answer as riders bring a host of
criteria and opinion to the problem. Fortunately we have
choice and choice is good.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 12/04/2011 3:34 AM, Chalo wrote:
Cicero Venatio wrote:

On my "I miss Jobst" I got a lot of smirking comments that were hard to
decipher. Since I can't reply to all of them I started a new post. To
be more specific my Open Pros are 32 spokes with Shimano ultegra hubs.
I paid around $90-100 for a front wheel, and $110-120 for a rear wheel,
on the sets I purchased.

Full retail on an Open Pro at my shop at today's prices is $116.
That's just plain old normal markup-- the kind that buys you a tube
for $4, an axle kit for $7, or a coaster brake hub for $17. Or an
Alex R390 socketed rim for $45.

If you but some kind of OEM surplus or overruns that happen to get you
some Open Pro wheels for the price of wheels with reasonably priced
rims, fine. You got lucky-- especially if the wheels were well built
when you got them.

But there are plenty of rims that don't have the typical Mavic
problems of cracking, noises, and a specified tension limit that makes
it difficult to keep a highly dished wheel in good condition, and that
cost a whole whopping lot less than a Mavic rim anyway.

If folks crack wise about Mavic rims, it's because the manufacturer is
audacious enough to price them as if there were something very special
about them, when there isn't. On the plus side, they are nicely flat
and round, which makes them easy to build with. On the minus side,
they are more likely to crack or tick than most other rims (just by
odds; they don't all do this). And since you can't lace them as tight
as other comparable rims, they can't carry as large a load reliably,
for any given weight of rim.

For many, that is not a concern.

JS.

On Apr 11, 1:35*pm, Cicero Venatio wrote:
On my "I miss Jobst" I got a lot of smirking comments that were hard to
decipher. *Since I can't reply to all of them I started a new post. *To
be more specific my Open Pros are 32 spokes with Shimano ultegra hubs.
I paid around $90-100 for a front wheel, and $110-120 for a rear wheel,
on the sets I purchased. *Now if I got a lot of mystique with my
purchase I was unaware of that. *These wheels were pre-built with only
minor truing necessary on my part. *Now if you folk are finding
pre-built wheels that are as good as the OP's for cheaper, I'd sure like
to know about it. *All I see when I'm shopping around on-line for wheels
are wheels that cost around $200, with not enough spokes. *Please
enlighten me.

You don't need 32 spokes, even 28 spokes are more than enough in a
well built tension spoked wheel, the extra are insurance. 20 up front
and 24 in the back are enough when used with systems which
straightline the spokes. This can be bought as a fancy factory
wheelset or can be done by a builder using the well known traditional
materials and a bit of manipulation of the spokes at their crossings.
The problem is you don't have the insurance of the extra spokes should
a badger get caught in your wheel and takke out a spoke, the wheel
will fail. The 28, 32 and 36 can be ridden home. I rode a 34 spoked
wheel for two months withot worrying about it.

On Apr 11, 3:05*pm, landotter wrote:
On Apr 11, 7:35*am, Cicero Venatio wrote:

On my "I miss Jobst" I got a lot of smirking comments that were hard to
decipher. *Since I can't reply to all of them I started a new post. *To
be more specific my Open Pros are 32 spokes with Shimano ultegra hubs.
I paid around $90-100 for a front wheel, and $110-120 for a rear wheel,
on the sets I purchased. *Now if I got a lot of mystique with my
purchase I was unaware of that. *These wheels were pre-built with only
minor truing necessary on my part. *Now if you folk are finding
pre-built wheels that are as good as the OP's for cheaper, I'd sure like
to know about it. *All I see when I'm shopping around on-line for wheels
are wheels that cost around $200, with not enough spokes. *Please
enlighten me.

For non-racing purposes in the road mode, you can often find Alex R390
rims on Tiagra hubs for under $200. That's a strong socked rim that's
50 heavier than an OP where it matters. They can be dialed to 120kgf
compared to the recommended 90-100 with an OP, giving a more stable
wheel.

If the issue is weight then the answer is sprints.


The Ultegra/OP combo is commodity and cheaper than the sum of its
parts. Fine if tensioned properly and not clyde ridden, but not nearly
as durable as the cheaper alternative.

On Apr 11, 6:34*pm, Chalo wrote:
Cicero Venatio wrote:

On my "I miss Jobst" I got a lot of smirking comments that were hard to
decipher. *Since I can't reply to all of them I started a new post. *To
be more specific my Open Pros are 32 spokes with Shimano ultegra hubs.
I paid around $90-100 for a front wheel, and $110-120 for a rear wheel,
on the sets I purchased. *

Full retail on an Open Pro at my shop at today's prices is $116.
That's just plain old normal markup-- the kind that buys you a tube
for $4, an axle kit for $7, or a coaster brake hub for $17. *Or an
Alex R390 socketed rim for $45.

If you but some kind of OEM surplus or overruns that happen to get you
some Open Pro wheels for the price of wheels with reasonably priced
rims, fine. *You got lucky-- especially if the wheels were well built
when you got them.

But there are plenty of rims that don't have the typical Mavic
problems of cracking, noises, and a specified tension limit that makes
it difficult to keep a highly dished wheel in good condition, and that
cost a whole whopping lot less than a Mavic rim anyway.

If folks crack wise about Mavic rims, it's because the manufacturer is
audacious enough to price them as if there were something very special
about them, when there isn't. *On the plus side, they are nicely flat
and round, which makes them easy to build with. *On the minus side,
they are more likely to crack or tick than most other rims (just by
odds; they don't all do this). *And since you can't lace them as tight
as other comparable rims, they can't carry as large a load reliably,
for any given weight of rim.

Chalo

Bull**** again Chalo, my Open4s have reliably taken 14 1/2 stone
without flexing, cracking, snapping spokes or causing any concern.
The only reason I prefer not to use them is because I prefer to use my
sprints because I can go crashing through rocks and tree roots, the
tyres on the Open4s just wont stand up to those stress levels, its
uncomfortable to have the rim bashing the road, although no serious
damage has become of the rims I have made a small dent through
enthusiastic riding, yet they didn't fail.

On Apr 11, 10:34*am, Chalo wrote:
Cicero Venatio wrote:

On my "I miss Jobst" I got a lot of smirking comments that were hard to
decipher. *Since I can't reply to all of them I started a new post. *To
be more specific my Open Pros are 32 spokes with Shimano ultegra hubs.
I paid around $90-100 for a front wheel, and $110-120 for a rear wheel,
on the sets I purchased. *

Full retail on an Open Pro at my shop at today's prices is $116.
That's just plain old normal markup-- the kind that buys you a tube
for $4, an axle kit for $7, or a coaster brake hub for $17. *Or an
Alex R390 socketed rim for $45.

If you but some kind of OEM surplus or overruns that happen to get you
some Open Pro wheels for the price of wheels with reasonably priced
rims, fine. *You got lucky-- especially if the wheels were well built
when you got them.

But there are plenty of rims that don't have the typical Mavic
problems of cracking, noises, and a specified tension limit that makes
it difficult to keep a highly dished wheel in good condition, and that
cost a whole whopping lot less than a Mavic rim anyway.

If folks crack wise about Mavic rims, it's because the manufacturer is
audacious enough to price them as if there were something very special
about them, when there isn't. *On the plus side, they are nicely flat
and round, which makes them easy to build with. *On the minus side,
they are more likely to crack or tick than most other rims (just by
odds; they don't all do this). *And since you can't lace them as tight
as other comparable rims, they can't carry as large a load reliably,
for any given weight of rim.

I'm surprised by the recommended tension of 70-90kgf which will not
keep an Open Pro straight on my bike (200lb rider). I run them at
110-120 kgf with no thread lock, and they do fine -- and actually take
quite a beating on my cross bike. I could probably run them lower with
thread lock, but I've been resisting that change. When I use stick-em
on spokes, it always makes retruing a bitch, but I have not used
magical linseed oil, and maybe that is the trick. -- Jay Beattie.