The election results II

On Fri, 05 Nov 2004 14:11:42 GMT, "Steven M. Scharf"
wrote:

Hot-button issues are what matter these days; abortion, gay marriage, guns,
and G-d.

None of which mean diddly squat unless we get on about the business of
killing people who want us dead before they can kill us.

Simple people understand that.

(live-free) wrote in message m...
The results - Kerry loses and does not whine avout it! How unlike a
democrat! Not that all the dummycrats are bad, but when Al Gore caused
the whole big stink in 2000 that really turned me off of the party!
Kerry did the smart thing and conceeded the election quickly!

I think that the whole idea of political parties is crazy! Just vote
for the person that you agree with the most. I personally think some
of what Kerry had to say made sense, but I also agree with some of
what Bush says! And Nader is just a nutball!

The President has my support on the war on terrorism and homeland
security, but his economic policies and energy plans are insane! We
need an economic plan that encourages companies to keep jobs here in
our country, and energy policies that will help reduce our relience on
fossil fuels.

There are so many different sources of energy that can be used now it
is silly that we still rely on fuels that have been around for
hundreds of years. How about solar and wind? Or hydrodynamic?

Ken

Terrorism and homeland security is just a joke. It is just windows
dressing
to appear to mass population as if Bush regime is doing tough on the
job.
Homeland security act is just another fascist measurement to search
and
arrest any individual in america. The measurement add the give right
for
any government force to search and arrest any individual without court
approval.
Add that, most AMericans do not know what's in the Homeland security
act.
YOu should go back to 1941 and see how 125,000 Japanese-AMericans
citizen were arrested and imprisoned without evidence of criminal.
That's homeland security
act of 1941. It will be happening again this time by LEAGALLY!

maxo wrote in message ...
On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 03:10:16 -0800, live-free wrote:

The results - Kerry loses and does not whine avout it! How unlike a
democrat! Not that all the dummycrats are bad, but when Al Gore caused the
whole big stink in 2000 that really turned me off of the party!

You're of the school that rape victims should shut the hell up too, eh?

Gore WAS gracious in 2000, but perhaps your memory's a bit foggy.

Supporting the war on terrorism? Smarter is to support the war on
individual terrorists, if we'd focused on that and not on waging war with
a technique, perhaps we wouldn't have to have seen the taunting video of
Osama recently in the news.

WEll good old buddie of George Bush jr's Osama just appered right on time.
He was looking for big stuff. But wonder why Osama appeared on Tee-Vee just
right on time right before the election??? Bush has warned him but he got
what he wanted from Osama. Good old Osama is doing a favorite for Bush and
Bush is doing a favorite for Osama. Bush and Osama, what a good friend!

"Claire Petersky" wrote

What's happening now is that people are voting based on stupid
things like gay marriage, when there's nobody out in their county, and
hurting themselves economically.

Perhaps, but it's also possible that they put "values" issues above
economic self-interest. I'm a pro-choicer myself, for instance, but I can
understand someone who has moral issues objecting to government support for
abortion. Ditto for gay marriage. I think many of these people may be
sincere and don't consider those things "stupid". Deciding which values are
"universal" and not violations of church vs. state is not easy. I hesitate
to dismiss these other values even though I'm from Massachusetts and mine
are somewhat left of Barney Frank.

B i l l S o r n s o n wrote:
Bill Baka wrote:
On Thu, 04 Nov 2004 13:01:10 -0600, Reality Check none@ wrote:

The fact is that Gore, thru the Florida Supreme Court, was pressing
for another PARTIAL recount in selected, cherry-picked precincts
favorable to them, NOT a complete recount. All well after state law
dictated the election was over.


Gee, did you forget whose brother was the governor?

You don't even have to WORK at being an idiot, do you Bill?

Since he's not being one, he's not working at it.

Bill "close contest between you and Blair" S.

You apparently know less about the history of politics
than you do about the morality of it.

--Blair
"Oops."

On 5 Nov 2004 09:55:57 -0800, (Red Cloud) wrote:

(live-free) wrote in message m...
The results - Kerry loses and does not whine avout it! How unlike a
democrat! Not that all the dummycrats are bad, but when Al Gore caused
the whole big stink in 2000 that really turned me off of the party!
Kerry did the smart thing and conceeded the election quickly!

I think that the whole idea of political parties is crazy! Just vote
for the person that you agree with the most. I personally think some
of what Kerry had to say made sense, but I also agree with some of
what Bush says! And Nader is just a nutball!

The President has my support on the war on terrorism and homeland
security, but his economic policies and energy plans are insane! We
need an economic plan that encourages companies to keep jobs here in
our country, and energy policies that will help reduce our relience on
fossil fuels.

There are so many different sources of energy that can be used now it
is silly that we still rely on fuels that have been around for
hundreds of years. How about solar and wind? Or hydrodynamic?

Ken

Terrorism and homeland security is just a joke. It is just windows
dressing
to appear to mass population as if Bush regime is doing tough on the
job.
Homeland security act is just another fascist measurement to search
and
arrest any individual in america. The measurement add the give right
for
any government force to search and arrest any individual without court
approval.
Add that, most AMericans do not know what's in the Homeland security
act.
YOu should go back to 1941 and see how 125,000 Japanese-AMericans
citizen were arrested and imprisoned without evidence of criminal.
That's homeland security
act of 1941. It will be happening again this time by LEAGALLY!

STOP THE WORLD! I agree with Red Cloud.

"Claire Petersky" wrote:

"Steven M. Scharf" wrote:

Hot-button issues are what matter these days; abortion, gay marriage,
guns, and G-d.

It would be interesting if there was a political party that would be the
guns (pro), gays (anti), God (pro), and grizzlies (anti) party that would
also meet the economic needs of those lower- to middle-class people in those
red regions.
snip
To appeal to its constituency, it would probably be anti-immigrant, too.

There is no defensible reason to believe that the Left in America
should capitulate to the politics of hate, bigotry, and fear. Those
are powerful motivators, but they dissolve in the light of knowledge.

The Right have the capacity to institute such a party as you describe,
but it is contrary to their philosophy. To the conservative mind,
wealth is the manifestation of virtue and should be rewarded, while
poverty is punishment for lack of virtue and should not be relieved.
Like many conservative tenets, it is plainly erroneous but still
deeply held. Because of this conviction, the Right will not spawn a
populist-bigot party-- Republicans will continue to depend on the
baser prejudices of the weak-witted to fool them into self-destructive
complicity.

Fairness, compassion and reason are self-evident principles. It
probably hurt Kerry a lot that he distanced himself from these
principles in the attempt to attract some of the vicious-dumbass vote,
when Bush had that demographic all sewed up.

We the Left will prevail once the Republicans have been given enough
rope, and then we'll be able to put all their pet issues to rest
forever. The longer they protract the inevitable with their lies and
treachery, the more absolute will be their downfall.

Remember that Adolf Hitler was duly elected by the German people-- but
now Germans are politically a lot more wholesome than Americans are,
and they reject anything with a whiff of Fascism.

Chalo Colina

Subject: The election results II
From: "Peter Cole"
Date: 11/5/2004 1:24 PM US Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: dzPid.300321$wV.165702@attbi_s54

"Claire Petersky" wrote

What's happening now is that people are voting based on stupid
things like gay marriage, when there's nobody out in their county, and
hurting themselves economically.

Perhaps, but it's also possible that they put "values" issues above
economic self-interest. I'm a pro-choicer myself, for instance, but I can
understand someone who has moral issues objecting to government support for
abortion. Ditto for gay marriage. I think many of these people may be
sincere and don't consider those things "stupid". Deciding which values are
"universal" and not violations of church vs. state is not easy. I hesitate
to dismiss these other values even though I'm from Massachusetts and mine
are somewhat left of Barney Frank

Peter Cole,

That's the first time I've seen a
reply from someone who disagrees with
the Republican issues without coming across as an elitist.
That's part of the reason why Kerry lost.

Remember that Adolf Hitler was duly elected by the German people-- but
now Germans are politically a lot more wholesome than Americans are,
and they reject anything with a whiff of Fascism.

Chalo Colina







And why is that Chalo?
Because they lost the war.
Not because they're better people.

"Fx199" wrote in message
...
Subject: The election results II
From: "Peter Cole"
Date: 11/5/2004 1:24 PM US Eastern Standard Time
Message-id: dzPid.300321$wV.165702@attbi_s54

"Claire Petersky" wrote

What's happening now is that people are voting based on stupid
things like gay marriage, when there's nobody out in their county, and
hurting themselves economically.

Perhaps, but it's also possible that they put "values" issues above
economic self-interest. I'm a pro-choicer myself, for instance, but I
can
understand someone who has moral issues objecting to government support
for
abortion. Ditto for gay marriage. I think many of these people may be
sincere and don't consider those things "stupid". Deciding which values
are
"universal" and not violations of church vs. state is not easy. I
hesitate
to dismiss these other values even though I'm from Massachusetts and
mine
are somewhat left of Barney Frank

Peter Cole,

That's the first time I've seen a
reply from someone who disagrees with
the Republican issues without coming across as an elitist.
That's part of the reason why Kerry lost.

Thanks, I guess. I don't really know why Kerry lost, I've heard the
theories, I'm skeptical of simple explanations. I do believe that liberals
are generally more tolerant than conservatives, something that puts us, and
our candidates, often at a disadvantage. Inflexible positions can give the
appearance of certainty -- very appealing in troubled times, but I think
history shows that the flexible leaders have made bigger (positive)
contributions to human progress than the ideologues.

I don't think conservatives are stupid any more than I think liberals are
naive. Labels like that are offensive. People frequently do bad things for
good reasons, or abuse religion/values to promote self-interest, human
nature is deeply flawed and wisdom is limited.

Standing way back and taking the long view, I think our society has become
more fair and more tolerant. It has also become more secular and more
diverse. Looking forward, it's hard to see that being other than the
direction of progress. In world affairs, multilateralism, compromise, and
negotiation have become pragmatic, long-term, directions. From those
perspectives, it's difficult not to see the current unilateralism,
deregulation of enterprise, and intrusion of religious dogma into
government as anything other than probable steps backward for our society.

I may not agree with creationism, constitutional bans on same sex marriage,
regressive tax laws, or unilateral preemptive military action, but I'm
obliged to defend the right of people to hold those beliefs. Accepting the
responsibility to defend, and at the same time ridiculing the holders of
those beliefs, is simply incompatible. Tolerance is the unavoidable
consequence of respect for other people and their values. If I don't agree,
it's my job to change minds, and name calling just gets in the way of that.