Truing a wheel - how long?

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 19:07:07 GMT, maxo wrote:

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:57:05 -0500, Badger wrote:

If, by that, you mean get a real road bike, I'd say, yep, that's a great
idea.

or check out the seasonal sales at the online shops and get a really
sturdy set of 36 spoke wheels for a hundred bucks or so and mount some
cyclocross tires on em and throw some really fast rubber on your stock
light wheels. Two bikes in one.

Actually I'd like to put the hybrid on a trainer, and have an indoor ride
when things get icy, and ride the road bike outside. I'm just a little
worried about fit problems and switching back and forth; is that a concern
for most? There's a couple big -ifs- to consider...would I actually ride a
bike on a trainer? (I did ride my sta. cycle, regularly last winter) The
other thing is it's hard to think about spending 200 bucks on a trainer and
not just spending an extra 200 on the road bike. Still the '04 discount is
-about- 200 bucks. (how to convince the wife...decision, decisions). ;-)

What would be the advantage of the cyclocross tires? I don't really ride
any off road - they paved the off-road section I used to ride. Are we
talking lots of tread? Guess I'll do a little research on just what
cyclocross tires do.

Any recommends as to online shops (US) Performance, nashbar would be my
picks. I'll have to goofle for experiences buying from them...

-B
thx!

maxo wrote:
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:57:05 -0500, Badger wrote:

If, by that, you mean get a real road bike, I'd say, yep, that's a great
idea.

or check out the seasonal sales at the online shops and get a really
sturdy set of 36 spoke wheels for a hundred bucks or so and mount some
cyclocross tires on em and throw some really fast rubber on your stock
light wheels. Two bikes in one.

I'll have to admit, that this is more along the lines of what I was
thinking. It's easier to experiment truing and fiddling with your
wheels if you always have a spare to put on, so that you are ready to
ride. Or if you do something bad (non-maintence-wise) to one of your
wheels and it ends up looking like this.

http://members.arstechnica.com/x/zuvembi/wheel-taco.jpg

--
Dane Jackson - z u v e m b i @ u n i x b i g o t s . o r g
Thinking you know something is a sure way to blind yourself.
-- Frank Herbert, "Chapterhouse: Dune"

On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 14:22:44 -0500, Badger wrote:

I'm just a little
worried about fit problems and switching back and forth; is that a concern
for most?

As long as you get a wheel with the appropriate cassette for your
drivetrain, switching wheels should take sixty seconds with a little
practice.

Just make sure that the rear wheel is equidistant from the chainstays
before clamping the quick release and you'll be fine.

(Uh, in case you missed the 'Fravia' reference, he ran an infamous
"hacker's challenge" back in the middle 90s, and only those that won got to
put the honorary '+' in front of their online handle.)

oh no! the '+' i use is not in anyway related to the 'Fravia' - it is
just that i want to stay +ve

i guess i shall continue to use it (for my own reasons) until someone
has an issue with me doing so.

thanks for that interesting tit-bit.

+ravi

On Fri, 12 Nov 2004 10:18:08 -0800, Ravi wrote:

(Uh, in case you missed the 'Fravia' reference, he ran an infamous
"hacker's challenge" back in the middle 90s, and only those that won got to
put the honorary '+' in front of their online handle.)

oh no! the '+' i use is not in anyway related to the 'Fravia' - it is
just that i want to stay +ve

i guess i shall continue to use it (for my own reasons) until someone
has an issue with me doing so.

thanks for that interesting tit-bit.

+ravi

Sorry, didn't mean to suggest that anyone accidently using the "+" on their
handle was a poseur, or not entitled, not at all. Plus this was a long time
ago (1995ish). Just didn't want to pass up greetz to a fellow reverser. ;-)

All the Best,

-B

Badger Wrote:
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 13:54:36 GMT, "Peter Cole"
wrote:

"Badger" wrote


Then he tells me "it's going to take over an hour to true the
wheel." (!)

Followed by: "...and this is going to cost, b/c these wheels are
hard to
true".


I'm just surprised that a wheel would take an hour to true. It's a
typical Trek race wheel, though with less spokes.


http://tinyurl.com/3nqgm

A hybrid with low spoke count wheels is like a minivan with a hood
scoop.

Haha, good one. Well, blame Trek. I don't make 'em, I just bought one
off
the rack. ;-)

Maybe Mike J. can chime in and explain why this odd config of race
wheels
on a hybrid?

If you had standard wheels it would be a simple matter to learn to
true
them yourself. Checking wheels, brakes, bars/cranks/stems for cracks,
adjusting cables, etc. should be skills mastered by cyclists. The
reason is
that it's just impractical to bring a bike into the shop frequently
enough
for this if you ride a lot.

I was told by the LBS guys that if I did this I'd only mess up the
adjustment, to bring it in instead. I check those things before I ride,
but
with my lousy vision not sure I'd be able to see a crack. I had to get
help
reading the max pressure on the new tire, lol.

If you had standard wheels, I'd say the mechanic was full of it, but
never
having worked on wheels like those, I don't know, he may have been
telling
it like it is.

According to another poster, he had his done in 15-20 minutes. I don't
understand why the mechanic kept saying 'on the bike' and 'off the
bike'
truing (or something like that).

So if I did decide to learn these things, where would I go for
instruction?

Thanks for the input, PC.

-B
There are good mechanics and bad ones. This is what I know. Truing can
take five or even an hour or two depending upon the type of wheel you
have, how out of true the wheel is, if the wheel has a hop, if the
spoke tension of the spokes is completely off, or finally the mechanics
skill.

I have had all my wheels hand built by the same mechanic for several
years. I live in Brooklyn, NY and ride all over including streets that
have pot holes every 5ft. I ride everyday and in the past year have had
my wheels trued twice. First time was minor 10min job second was a
redish an true 30min job.

Sounds like you have a bad mechanic. Here are a few simple tips that
might help you in the future. Turn your bike upside down and spin your
wheel look at how the rim passes the brake pad. Does it hit the pad or
come near to hitting the pad in some sections of the wheel? If so the
wheel is out of true. When you ride do you feel a thump in either the
front or rear wheel? If so you may have a tire that needs to be
replaced or one that was put on improperly or you have a hop in your
wheel.

Trust your gut. If you just purchased a new wheel or bike then you
should need to have your wheels trued the next day since shops true the
prepackaged wheels before they sell them. Don't forget to get off the
saddle before you hit the pothole or bump in the road. This will save
you from having to true your wheels often.

Again, unless you hit something or drop your bike off the bike rack
etc... something serious, your mechanic should not be working on your
wheel for 60min. Heck a good mechanic can built and true a wheel in an
hour.

S


--
sheila98

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 09:30:22 +1100, sheila98
wrote:

There are good mechanics and bad ones. This is what I know. Truing can
take five or even an hour or two depending upon the type of wheel you
have, how out of true the wheel is, if the wheel has a hop, if the
spoke tension of the spokes is completely off, or finally the mechanics
skill.

OK, be aware that I have a wheel with less spokes than usual, standard
build on the Trek 7500FX, and, it appears, on any of the basic road bikes
above the bottom of the line.

I have had all my wheels hand built by the same mechanic for several
years. I live in Brooklyn, NY and ride all over including streets that
have pot holes every 5ft. I ride everyday and in the past year have had
my wheels trued twice. First time was minor 10min job second was a
redish an true 30min job.

Sounds like you have a bad mechanic. Here are a few simple tips that
might help you in the future. Turn your bike upside down and spin your
wheel look at how the rim passes the brake pad. Does it hit the pad or
come near to hitting the pad in some sections of the wheel? If so the
wheel is out of true. When you ride do you feel a thump in either the
front or rear wheel? If so you may have a tire that needs to be
replaced or one that was put on improperly or you have a hop in your
wheel.

When stand in front of the bike and lightly apply the brakes and roll the
tire, it grabs at one particular spot. When braking moderately hard, there
is an alarming 'thump/grab' feeling. After getting it home, and supposedly
'fixed', the problem remains. I rode it around the parking lot to try and
preclude bringing it home with the problem unsolved, and I must not have
applied the brakes, in test mode, hard enough. Just for reference, the bike
rode home in the back, inside the car, placed gently on the non-deraileur
side.

Trust your gut. If you just purchased a new wheel or bike then you
should need to have your wheels trued the next day since shops true the

"should" or "should not"?

prepackaged wheels before they sell them. Don't forget to get off the
saddle before you hit the pothole or bump in the road. This will save
you from having to true your wheels often.

No potholes where I ride, so I'm clear there. I believe this problem
occurred when the tire blew while topping off before a ride. The mechanic
keeps saying 'you ran over something'...not 'did you run over something?',
as though I'm trying to deceive him or something.

Turns out he was able to true it in 5 minutes and was just in a bad mood
and didn't want to look at it when I brought it in. Guess he realized how
much fun I have driving back and forth to the shop to fix something that he
should never have let me leave the shop in disrepair. He's told me a couple
times that he's ridden the bike around the parking lot after minor
adjustments, but not sure I believe him.

Again, unless you hit something or drop your bike off the bike rack
etc... something serious, your mechanic should not be working on your
wheel for 60min. Heck a good mechanic can built and true a wheel in an
hour.

Nope, didn't hit anything, didn't drop it. Thx for the valuable input, S.

-B

S


--
sheila98

Badger Wrote:
On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 09:30:22 +1100, sheila98
wrote:

There are good mechanics and bad ones. This is what I know. Truing can
take five or even an hour or two depending upon the type of wheel you
have, how out of true the wheel is, if the wheel has a hop, if the
spoke tension of the spokes is completely off, or finally the
mechanics
skill.

OK, be aware that I have a wheel with less spokes than usual, standard
build on the Trek 7500FX, and, it appears, on any of the basic road
bikes
above the bottom of the line.

I have had all my wheels hand built by the same mechanic for several
years. I live in Brooklyn, NY and ride all over including streets that
have pot holes every 5ft. I ride everyday and in the past year have
had
my wheels trued twice. First time was minor 10min job second was a
redish an true 30min job.

Sounds like you have a bad mechanic. Here are a few simple tips that
might help you in the future. Turn your bike upside down and spin your
wheel look at how the rim passes the brake pad. Does it hit the pad or
come near to hitting the pad in some sections of the wheel? If so the
wheel is out of true. When you ride do you feel a thump in either the
front or rear wheel? If so you may have a tire that needs to be
replaced or one that was put on improperly or you have a hop in your
wheel.

When stand in front of the bike and lightly apply the brakes and roll
the
tire, it grabs at one particular spot. When braking moderately hard,
there
is an alarming 'thump/grab' feeling. After getting it home, and
supposedly
'fixed', the problem remains. I rode it around the parking lot to try
and
preclude bringing it home with the problem unsolved, and I must not
have
applied the brakes, in test mode, hard enough. Just for reference, the
bike
rode home in the back, inside the car, placed gently on the
non-deraileur
side.

Trust your gut. If you just purchased a new wheel or bike then you
should need to have your wheels trued the next day since shops true
the

"should" or "should not"?

prepackaged wheels before they sell them. Don't forget to get off the
saddle before you hit the pothole or bump in the road. This will save
you from having to true your wheels often.

No potholes where I ride, so I'm clear there. I believe this problem
occurred when the tire blew while topping off before a ride. The
mechanic
keeps saying 'you ran over something'...not 'did you run over
something?',
as though I'm trying to deceive him or something.

Turns out he was able to true it in 5 minutes and was just in a bad
mood
and didn't want to look at it when I brought it in. Guess he realized
how
much fun I have driving back and forth to the shop to fix something
that he
should never have let me leave the shop in disrepair. He's told me a
couple
times that he's ridden the bike around the parking lot after minor
adjustments, but not sure I believe him.

Again, unless you hit something or drop your bike off the bike rack
etc... something serious, your mechanic should not be working on your
wheel for 60min. Heck a good mechanic can built and true a wheel in an
hour.

Nope, didn't hit anything, didn't drop it. Thx for the valuable input,
S.

-B

S


--
sheila98
*The number of spokes really dosen't matter. The only difference is
the type of spoke wrench that is used, i.e., mavic kysariums, shimano,
cane creek, fir carbon fiber wheels all use spoke wrenches specific to
that particular wheel design. The process for truing is the same no
matter what wheels you have. For examply, you true Rolf vector wheels
the same way you would the mavic kysariums. The mechanic just uses a
different spoke wrench. *

*Any good mechanic worth his salt keeps up with the new technology.
Don't get hung up on spoke number. Wheels are built and trued by
specific spoke tension. Loosening some spokes and tightening others
and measuring overall spoke tension is how one trues a wheel. Keep in
mind that this is a very simple explanation. One has to know what spoke
to loosen or tighten and how much. Again this is a simple explanation
but all wheels are trued using the same procedure. *


*Now as far as your brake grabbing this could be a couple of things.*

*1: take your wheel off the bike remove the skewer and make sure you
have two skewer springs, one on either side of where the fork blades
would sit. If you only have one your wheel will move to one side. ie
brake pad will hit rim on one side.*

*2: make sure your hub is not loose. Grab the wheel in your hand
(wheel is still on bike) and try to move it side to side. If it has a
lot of play this can cause your brake to hit and grab.*

*3: While wheel is on bike spin wheel and hit the brake lever with the
same amount of pressure you were using when you initially found the
problem. Do the brake arms move equally at the same time. You have
V-brakes both the arms should have the same amount of movement. If the
don't you may need to adjust the brake spring, brake pads, overall brake
adjustment.*

*90% of bikes that come into our shop who have this grabby brake issue
need to have the brake spring adjusted. Often, grabby brakes are due
to one caliper arm not pivoting freely. This means the spring needs
adjustment or repositioning or it is just plain broken. *


*I think you really need to go to another shop if you can. If you can't
you should e-mail your issues to one of if not the best mechanics in the
local bike shop industry. Sheldon Brown from Harris Cyclery. He answers
all his emails and gives great advice. *

*[image: http://sheldonbrown.com/images/email-captbike.gif]*

Hope this helps


--
sheila98

On Sat, 13 Nov 2004 12:18:07 +1100, sheila98
wrote:

*Now as far as your brake grabbing this could be a couple of things.*

*1: take your wheel off the bike remove the skewer and make sure you
have two skewer springs, one on either side of where the fork blades
would sit. If you only have one your wheel will move to one side. ie
brake pad will hit rim on one side.*

OK, but if you recall, the wheel started doing this one day and was not
doing it the previous day. The skewer has not been out of the wheel to my
knowledge. I'll ask about this though.

*2: make sure your hub is not loose. Grab the wheel in your hand
(wheel is still on bike) and try to move it side to side. If it has a
lot of play this can cause your brake to hit and grab.*

Just checked. Hub ok.

*3: While wheel is on bike spin wheel and hit the brake lever with the
same amount of pressure you were using when you initially found the
problem. Do the brake arms move equally at the same time. You have
V-brakes both the arms should have the same amount of movement. If the
don't you may need to adjust the brake spring, brake pads, overall brake
adjustment.*

I'll print parts of this and refer to it when I take it in. I doubt if
he'll listen to me and actually remove the skewer and look. I'll get some
new brake pads put on the front while I'm there, it's about time for that.

*90% of bikes that come into our shop who have this grabby brake issue
need to have the brake spring adjusted. Often, grabby brakes are due
to one caliper arm not pivoting freely. This means the spring needs
adjustment or repositioning or it is just plain broken. *

OK, but remember the only thing that happened was the tire blew on pumping
it up. Nothing else was changed, and prior to this the brakes were adjusted
perfectly. (not disputing you...just being clear, here)

*I think you really need to go to another shop if you can. If you can't
you should e-mail your issues to one of if not the best mechanics in the
local bike shop industry. Sheldon Brown from Harris Cyclery. He answers
all his emails and gives great advice. *

SB monitors this ng. I'm not sure of my explanation of the problem to
trouble him at this point, but I'll keep it in mind.

Thx a bunch.

-B

Badger_South wrote in part:

Maybe Mike J. can chime in and explain why this odd config of race wheels
on a hybrid?

Not Mike J but...

It's the same reason that they put those
toy suspension forks on there--
preference of ignorant consumers.
Just tryin to sell more bikes.

Robert