#51
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Road Discs
On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 19:59:54 -0700, sms
wrote: On 9/11/2017 6:40 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:18:38 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:10:11 PM UTC-5, sms wrote: I'd wait for bikesdirect to get their Ultegra Titanium disc road bikes back in stock. They sell out very fast since most serious riders are moving from carbon fiber to titanium now. Then get a CroMo disc fork. Serious riders are switching from carbon to titanium? Didn't know that. But then I don't claim to be a genius in every topic on earth. Just a couple of them for me. Chromoly disc fork to replace a carbon disc fork? Why? Because CF disc forks explode, leading to huge loss of life -- second only to heart disease as a cause of death in the United States. Where have you been? Mars? Really, though, I don't know where all these "serious riders" are. I've seen zero Ti disc bikes with CroMo forks. True, most riders use the CF fork that comes with the Ti bicycle. The suggestion to switch to a CroMo fork was to prevent injury should the CF fork fail, as they are prone to do. Why in the world don't titanium bicycles come with titanium forks? I've got an aluminum bicycle with aluminum forks; I've got steel bicycles with steel forks... Is there something wrong with this wonder metal? -- Cheers, John B. |
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#53
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Road Discs
On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 4:49:11 PM UTC-7, Mark J. wrote:
On 9/11/2017 8:52 AM, jbeattie wrote: On Sunday, September 10, 2017 at 9:11:16 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 9/9/2017 5:28 PM, jbeattie wrote: So, my SuperSix was crushed in a roof-rack accident and last weak my Roubaix was stolen out of the garage that I left open all night. I've done that many times -- apparently one too many. I'm down to a gravel bike and my commuter -- the reborn warranty CAADX (which is a great bike). The gravel bike is a pig, but I'll use that for fall/winter/spring sport riding. I want a fast bike, though -- and I've got a line on a nice bike that I can get with rim brakes or discs, but the disc model will not be available until December -- which really means that I get to ride it in dry weather some time around May. I can get a rim brake model by the end of the month. All the shops are pushing discs, and I did like the discs on the Roubaix and on my gravel bike. I know this is absolutely the wrong group to ask because it's wall-to-wall curmudgeons, but if you were buying your last nice road bike, would you go rim brakes or discs? It will be a dry weather bike or ridden in the rain only because of bad luck. There would be no real weight penalty because the bike is so light to start with. I'm not aero, so I don't care about the aero penalty with discs. My concern with getting rim brakes is not really even a performance issue because in dry weather, I've never had a problem with rim brakes -- but to listen to the guys at the local shop, rim brakes are going the way of the dodo. I'm worried about buying an antique! No suggestion on your specific question but speaking as an Industry Professional, I think my record for selling one customer his "final perfect bike to last the rest of my life" is six bicycles, 3 or 4 is amazingly common. Many of those guys will be back again too. So much of this is just market-driven angst. Discs have a nice feel and are powerful and do work better in the rain, but that is different from rim brakes being inadequate or dangerous. People develop a preference and then the last-thing becomes unworkable or dangerous. "I used to ride 23mm tires, but 25s are so much more positive.. You'll die riding 23mm tires!" Then I think, "didn't I race on 19mm and 21mm?" I was talking to my son yesterday, and he rides an Emonda with rim brakes and CF wheels. So, I asked him "where did you ride today," and he says Big Cottonwood with some side routes and a climb on the way home -- maybe 6,000 -7,000 feet of climbing and some seriously steep descending on the side routes. Any problems? No. His friends use rim brakes, and they do ridiculous amounts of climbing -- one just did 31,000 feet in a day (the whole Everest thing). And then I think back on my decades of rim brake experience and wonder why I'm even worried -- except for the anxiety caused by choices. Not that discs would be super-sweet and maybe even reduce some hand fatigue, but the idea that they are necessary or that rim brakes are dangerous is kind of out there. -- Jay Beattie. Jay, I think you've answered your own question well and completely. For a dry-weather fast on-road bike, rim brakes will do the job. Always have. I like the disks on my commuter too - though they squeak a lot - but that's a completely different type of riding (in Oregon, anyway). I sense your original question really was "am I missing anything?" I'd say mostly not. The one thing I can think of is that with disks, you can often fit really large tires, in case you want to take your fast road bike on a gravel-grinder race some day. Not much to base a purchase on, unless you really have an itch for gravel racing. You can also try to insert the disk into the pads after someone pulling the lever when the wheel was removed. This can leave the pad only partially pulled back since there is play in the mechanism. As you shove the wheel in it chips or cut off a piece of the pad which not only increases the squeaking but also greatly increases the speed of wear. On a heavy full suspension bike off-road they work very well. Anywhere else they are massive overkill. |
#54
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Road Discs
On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:18:38 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:10:11 PM UTC-5, sms wrote: I'd wait for bikesdirect to get their Ultegra Titanium disc road bikes back in stock. They sell out very fast since most serious riders are moving from carbon fiber to titanium now. Then get a CroMo disc fork. Serious riders are switching from carbon to titanium? Didn't know that. But then I don't claim to be a genius in every topic on earth. Just a couple of them for me. Chromoly disc fork to replace a carbon disc fork? Why? I don't see this either. I can only assume this is a joke. What I am seeing is a LOT of people getting out of cycling. Sales are way down of top of the line bikes. Lower to mid level bikes for families seem to be staying stable so I can only assume that there has been a shift in the market. |
#55
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Road Discs
On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 12:27:49 AM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 19:59:54 -0700, sms wrote: On 9/11/2017 6:40 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:18:38 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:10:11 PM UTC-5, sms wrote: I'd wait for bikesdirect to get their Ultegra Titanium disc road bikes back in stock. They sell out very fast since most serious riders are moving from carbon fiber to titanium now. Then get a CroMo disc fork. Serious riders are switching from carbon to titanium? Didn't know that. But then I don't claim to be a genius in every topic on earth. Just a couple of them for me. Chromoly disc fork to replace a carbon disc fork? Why? Because CF disc forks explode, leading to huge loss of life -- second only to heart disease as a cause of death in the United States. Where have you been? Mars? Really, though, I don't know where all these "serious riders" are. I've seen zero Ti disc bikes with CroMo forks. True, most riders use the CF fork that comes with the Ti bicycle. The suggestion to switch to a CroMo fork was to prevent injury should the CF fork fail, as they are prone to do. Why in the world don't titanium bicycles come with titanium forks? I've got an aluminum bicycle with aluminum forks; I've got steel bicycles with steel forks... Is there something wrong with this wonder metal? Titanium is a very difficult material to manipulate. the bends for the top of the fork are extremely hard to do. Looking at a titanium bike you will see few if any bends at all. |
#56
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Road Discs
On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 6:49:49 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 7:24:23 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 16:53:34 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie wrote: On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 2:25:56 PM UTC-7, sms wrote: On 9/11/2017 7:54 AM, wrote: On Sunday, September 10, 2017 at 5:11:08 PM UTC-7, sms wrote: On 9/9/2017 3:28 PM, jbeattie wrote: So, my SuperSix was crushed in a roof-rack accident and last weak my Roubaix was stolen out of the garage that I left open all night. I've done that many times -- apparently one too many. I'm down to a gravel bike and my commuter -- the reborn warranty CAADX (which is a great bike). At one place I owned I installed a device that automatically closes the garage door after three minutes unless you disable it. I used the timer for the light bulbs on the garage door opener to trigger a relay that shorted the open/close terminals momentarily. I need to build another one since I've done the same thing as you on occasion. The gravel bike is a pig, but I'll use that for fall/winter/spring sport riding. I want a fast bike, though -- and I've got a line on a nice bike that I can get with rim brakes or discs, but the disc model will not be available until December -- which really means that I get to ride it in dry weather some time around May. I can get a rim brake model by the end of the month. All the shops are pushing discs, and I did like the discs on the Roubaix and on my gravel bike. I know this is absolutely the wrong group to ask because it's wall-to-wall curmudgeons, but if you were buying your last nice road bike, would you go rim brakes or discs? It will be a dry weather bike or ridden in the rain only because of bad luck. There would be no real weight penalty because the bike is so light to start with. I'm not aero, so I don't care about the aero penalty with discs. My concern with getting rim brakes is not really even a performance issue because in dry weather, I've never had a problem with rim brakes -- but to listen to the guys at the local shop, rim brakes are going the way of the dodo. I'm worried about buying an antique! I SPIT on rim brakes. Go for a titanium frame with disc brakes. https://www.deanbikes.com/ Yeah, that's a really great idea when just the couplers on that bike are $900. For my entire totally reconditioned Pinarello I'll have less with new Campy wheels and a record group. Jay is not price-sensitive. All he has to do is bill a few more hours to pay for a Dean Titanium. And the couplers are not required. Even if I were made of money, I wouldn't spend a ton on a bike. I'm getting a pro deal on my next bike because I do work for the manufacturer -- and its a great bike. It will be my designated fast bike (or as-fast-as-I-get bike). It's replacing my SuperSix, RIP. -- Jay Beattie. Isn't that what Tom was talking about? Taking part of your pay in freebies from the company you are working for :-) He was talking about SMS's supposed guerilla marketing. I don't do product placement, except when I find an exceptional product like the new 92" Samsing 4721 400K curved screen TV with plasma sound and sensaround holographic 4D picture and gesture control. It's like being there. You can get it at TVdirect for half the price, although they're frequently sold-out because everybody wants one. Don't you? It must be nice to live in a 3000 sq ft home with a 1,000 sq ft living room.. |
#57
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Road Discs
On 9/12/2017 6:49 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 7:24:23 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 16:53:34 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie wrote: On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 2:25:56 PM UTC-7, sms wrote: On 9/11/2017 7:54 AM, wrote: On Sunday, September 10, 2017 at 5:11:08 PM UTC-7, sms wrote: On 9/9/2017 3:28 PM, jbeattie wrote: So, my SuperSix was crushed in a roof-rack accident and last weak my Roubaix was stolen out of the garage that I left open all night. I've done that many times -- apparently one too many. I'm down to a gravel bike and my commuter -- the reborn warranty CAADX (which is a great bike). At one place I owned I installed a device that automatically closes the garage door after three minutes unless you disable it. I used the timer for the light bulbs on the garage door opener to trigger a relay that shorted the open/close terminals momentarily. I need to build another one since I've done the same thing as you on occasion. The gravel bike is a pig, but I'll use that for fall/winter/spring sport riding. I want a fast bike, though -- and I've got a line on a nice bike that I can get with rim brakes or discs, but the disc model will not be available until December -- which really means that I get to ride it in dry weather some time around May. I can get a rim brake model by the end of the month. All the shops are pushing discs, and I did like the discs on the Roubaix and on my gravel bike. I know this is absolutely the wrong group to ask because it's wall-to-wall curmudgeons, but if you were buying your last nice road bike, would you go rim brakes or discs? It will be a dry weather bike or ridden in the rain only because of bad luck. There would be no real weight penalty because the bike is so light to start with. I'm not aero, so I don't care about the aero penalty with discs. My concern with getting rim brakes is not really even a performance issue because in dry weather, I've never had a problem with rim brakes -- but to listen to the guys at the local shop, rim brakes are going the way of the dodo. I'm worried about buying an antique! I SPIT on rim brakes. Go for a titanium frame with disc brakes. https://www.deanbikes.com/ Yeah, that's a really great idea when just the couplers on that bike are $900. For my entire totally reconditioned Pinarello I'll have less with new Campy wheels and a record group. Jay is not price-sensitive. All he has to do is bill a few more hours to pay for a Dean Titanium. And the couplers are not required. Even if I were made of money, I wouldn't spend a ton on a bike. I'm getting a pro deal on my next bike because I do work for the manufacturer -- and its a great bike. It will be my designated fast bike (or as-fast-as-I-get bike). It's replacing my SuperSix, RIP. -- Jay Beattie. Isn't that what Tom was talking about? Taking part of your pay in freebies from the company you are working for :-) He was talking about SMS's supposed guerilla marketing. LOL, I thought that it was Frank that made up that story! I don't do product placement, except when I find an exceptional product like the new 92" Samsing 4721 400K curved screen TV with plasma sound and sensaround holographic 4D picture and gesture control. It's like being there. You can get it at TVdirect for half the price, although they're frequently sold-out because everybody wants one. Don't you? I am waiting for my check from Bikesdirect. It must have been lost in the mail, along with all the other checks that I am supposed to receive. Darn. Today we have other issues in my city. We are hunkered down about two miles from ground-zero. My wife is taking an alternate route to work to get around the police roadblocks, and her company sent out an e-mail warning employees about the situation. We have filled the bathtub in case water service goes out. We have stockpiled food and filled drinking water containers. If power is interrupted we can run a small refrigerator directly from the solar panels during the daytime, but we have no generator. It's hot, so if electricity is lost, and the A/C goes out, we can jump in the pool. We can cook on the propane grill, plus I have many camping and backpacking stoves. We have charged all our phones and tablets. Our Android devices are safely buried in a remote location in case there is a police search of our house. I took a risk and went out to survey the scene early this morning. The streets are eerily quiet, but TV satellite news trucks are pouring in to report on the situation. There is a heavy police presence. Drones are banned with a sign reading "No Drone Zone," though probably that's not legal. I drove north on Tantau Avenue but the road was blocked and I had to turn around. We are all waiting for the news reports to begin at 10:00 a.m.. Will there be fast-charging and/or wireless charging? Will they bring back the headphone jack? Will there be a shatterproof screen? Will there be multi-user support? Pray. |
#58
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Road Discs
On 9/11/2017 4:49 PM, Mark J. wrote:
On 9/11/2017 8:52 AM, jbeattie wrote: On Sunday, September 10, 2017 at 9:11:16 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote: On 9/9/2017 5:28 PM, jbeattie wrote: So, my SuperSix was crushed in a roof-rack accident and last weak my Roubaix was stolen out of the garage that I left open all night. I've done that many times -- apparently one too many.Â* I'm down to a gravel bike and my commuter -- the reborn warranty CAADX (which is a great bike). The gravel bike is a pig, but I'll use that for fall/winter/spring sport riding.Â* I want a fast bike, though -- and I've got a line on a nice bike that I can get with rim brakes or discs, but the disc model will not be available until December -- which really means that I get to ride it in dry weather some time around May.Â* I can get a rim brake model by the end of the month. All the shops are pushing discs, and I did like the discs on the Roubaix and on my gravel bike. I know this is absolutely the wrong group to ask because it's wall-to-wall curmudgeons, but if you were buying your last nice road bike, would you go rim brakes or discs? It will be a dry weather bike or ridden in the rain only because of bad luck. There would be no real weight penalty because the bike is so light to start with. I'm not aero, so I don't care about the aero penalty with discs. My concern with getting rim brakes is not really even a performance issue because in dry weather, I've never had a problem with rim brakes -- but to listen to the guys at the local shop, rim brakes are going the way of the dodo. I'm worried about buying an antique! No suggestion on your specific question but speaking as an Industry Professional, I think my record for selling one customer his "final perfect bike to last the rest of my life" is six bicycles, 3 or 4 is amazingly common. Many of those guys will be back again too. So much of this is just market-driven angst.Â* Discs have a nice feel and are powerful and do work better in the rain, but that is different from rim brakes being inadequate or dangerous. People develop a preference and then the last-thing becomes unworkable or dangerous. "I used to ride 23mm tires, but 25s are so much more positive.Â* You'll die riding 23mm tires!"Â* Then I think, "didn't I race on 19mm and 21mm?" I was talking to my son yesterday, and he rides an Emonda with rim brakes and CF wheels. So, I asked him "where did you ride today," and he says Big Cottonwood with some side routes and a climb on the way home -- maybe 6,000 -7,000 feet of climbing and some seriously steep descending on the side routes. Any problems?Â* No.Â* His friends use rim brakes, and they do ridiculous amounts of climbing -- one just did 31,000 feet in a day (the whole Everest thing). And then I think back on my decades of rim brake experience and wonder why I'm even worried -- except for the anxiety caused by choices.Â* Not that discs would be super-sweet and maybe even reduce some hand fatigue, but the idea that they are necessary or that rim brakes are dangerous is kind of out there. -- Jay Beattie. Jay, I think you've answered your own question well and completely.Â* For a dry-weather fast on-road bike, rim brakes will do the job.Â* Always have. It's not just in wet weather where discs have an advantage. On long steep descents, rims overheating and causing a blowout are an issue that riders address by stopping to allow rims to cool, or by pumping the brakes (though it's unclear if pumping the brakes has any positive effect). Disc brakes can also lose effectiveness when overheated, but it won't cause a blowout. |
#59
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Road Discs
On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 7:57:47 PM UTC-7, sms wrote:
On 9/11/2017 6:40 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:18:38 PM UTC-7, wrote: On Monday, September 11, 2017 at 5:10:11 PM UTC-5, sms wrote: I'd wait for bikesdirect to get their Ultegra Titanium disc road bikes back in stock. They sell out very fast since most serious riders are moving from carbon fiber to titanium now. Then get a CroMo disc fork. Serious riders are switching from carbon to titanium? Didn't know that. But then I don't claim to be a genius in every topic on earth. Just a couple of them for me. Chromoly disc fork to replace a carbon disc fork? Why? Because CF disc forks explode, leading to huge loss of life -- second only to heart disease as a cause of death in the United States. Where have you been? Mars? Well-stated. Pretty much what is said he https://www.rivbike.com/products/carbonomas-steel-fork-1-1-8-threadless-curved LOL .... but there is a learning curve with carbon forks, and the zenith has not been reached. |
#60
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Road Discs
On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 11:20:47 AM UTC-4, sms wrote:
On 9/12/2017 6:49 AM, jbeattie wrote: He was talking about SMS's supposed guerilla marketing. LOL, I thought that it was Frank that made up that story! I "made up" that story by reading SMS's web pages, which at the time said something like "If you buy one of these products, please start from my pages so I can get the commission." And in other places, those web pages bragged that SMS "engaged in guerilla marketing in the bicycling community," etc. I posted direct quotes and links several times, and I believe others checked them out and verified them. After several months, SMS realized people were on to him and either took those pages down or edited them. I am waiting for my check from Bikesdirect. It must have been lost in the mail, along with all the other checks that I am supposed to receive. Darn. Another failed businessman who decided to go into politics. - Frank Krygowski |
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