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Fixed Penalty Charge - for unicycling



 
 
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  #21  
Old June 8th 07, 08:24 PM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
Danny Colyer
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Default Fixed Penalty Charge - for unicycling


semach.the.monkey wrote:
Now, I know that none of you are UK lawyers (or if you are, Iím not
expecting legal representation), but Iíd like to know what the legal
standpoint is with unicycles on the pavement in England. Iíve used the
search facility, but havenít come up with anything more than vague
rumour, speculation or feelings. Does anyone know where I could
actually look up what the law is regarding this, or how I would go
about finding out?


I've never managed to find a definitive answer. I believe that an 1851
amendment to the 1835 Highway Act made pavement cycling illegal, and I
understand that the definition probably covers unicycles, but I haven't
actually read the legislation.

You could do worse than reading:
http://www.unicycle.org.uk/thelaw.html

I remember that, at the time the fixed penalty notice was introduced,
someone wrote a letter to the Home Office asking what the situation for
unicycles would be. He received a reply from a Home Office minister
(Paul Boateng IIRC) stating that the FPN should *not* be applied to
unicyclists. Although the application of the FPN in this case is
within the letter of the law, it is against Home Office guidelines.

I thought I had a copy of this letter, but I can't seem to find it. I
suggest posting to uk_unicyclists to ask if anyone has a copy or can
remember who it was sent to. If you can get a copy then I should
imagine it would be extremely valuable in fighting your case.


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  #22  
Old June 8th 07, 08:55 PM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
mikepenton
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Default Fixed Penalty Charge - for unicycling


I'd personally keep quiet and pay. He was being strict, you were very
unlucky.

I've asked a senior London magistrate and his personal opinion is that
if you did appeal, common sense would be applied and you would be
classified under the "other similar vehicles" get-out clause. You were
riding on a machine designed and capable of riding at bike speeds, so
would get treated as such (If they use the policeman as a witness I'm
sure he'd remember the unusual wheel size, saying it was a 20" would
put you in contempt of court). I'm not sure how much use being pedantic
would be, but magistrates take a dim view of hot-shot barristers being
used for traffic offences.
However if by some amazing chance you were to win, it could create a
new precendence and therefore law (I'm not 100% sure on this, nor was
he). I'm not sure what that law would be... but I wouldn't want my
9-year-old to be legally obliged to ride on the road.

Finally, if you pay now it's £30. If you take it to court it will cost
you much more, even if you defend yourself. Feeling rich? go for it!
but get a good lawyer. PM me if you want some recommendations


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  #23  
Old June 8th 07, 09:04 PM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
mark williamson
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Default Fixed Penalty Charge - for unicycling


STM - that's a pretty tough break. Were the pedestrians on the
pavement? Were there any near you, or was there enough space? How far
did you go on the pavement?

I do ride on pavements but a) not usually on the 36" b) only when
they're (pretty much) empty. And then I keep a -very- close lookout
for any pedestrians who might emerge unexpectedly.

It seems fairly harsh of the policeman to give you a fine, but I guess
maybe they're having a crackdown on all cyclists in order to punish the
irresponsible ones; you got caught in the crossfire.


--
mark williamson

Dave: Just a question. What use is a unicyle with no seat? And no
pedals!
Mark: To answer a question with a question: What use is a skateboard?
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  #24  
Old June 8th 07, 09:22 PM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
joemarshall
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Default Fixed Penalty Charge - for unicycling


semach.the.monkey wrote:
I can't idle on my coker, sadly, so the only other option would have
been to dismount. My mounting skills on the 36" wheel aren't that
great either




Hey Spence,

idling the coker is overrated. For London traffic, you want to be able
to hop it on the spot. Tiny little hops, with a stillstand in between.
Don't hop high, just like 1 or 2 cm. Doesn't take up any space like
idling does, and you can get into it really quickly.

If you're still rubbish at mounting the coker, you probably need to
dismount more on your ride to work though, practicing once a day at the
start and end of your ride and trying really hard to not dismount won't
teach you the mount very quickly.

Joe


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  #25  
Old June 8th 07, 09:26 PM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
cathwood
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Default Fixed Penalty Charge - for unicycling


I ride on pavements nearly all the time. I'm afraid to ride on the road.
But also a) most of the pavements round here are also cycle paths or b)
I often ride with my son and even when I'm riding my bike I ride with
him on the pavement. He's way to unpredictable to let cycle on a busy
road.

Bad luck Spence, with whatever you decide.


--
cathwood

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  #26  
Old June 8th 07, 10:11 PM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
hobo_chuck
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Default Fixed Penalty Charge - for unicycling


small town USA:

Never had a problem with pedestrians on the sidewalk(there are none),
cops giving me tickets for riding on the sidwalk, people yelling at me
for riding through the supermarket, ect.... check out my "idiots on
skateboards" thread


--
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  #27  
Old June 9th 07, 09:19 AM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
unicus
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Default Fixed Penalty Charge - for unicycling


Bad luck Spence. I think they may be after you, take a look at
yesterdays news in Nottingham, your other place of residence...

'POLICE VOW ACTION ON PAVEMENT CYCLISTS' (http://tinyurl.com/yvcwu8)

You might have gotten away with just a warning up here - which is what
should have happened anyway as it sounds like you weren't breaking the
'spirit of the law' even if you were technically.

NOTE: ASAIK if an English magistrate forms an opinion such as to
whether a unicycle is or is not covered by these laws they will not set
a precedent. To do that an appeal on a 'point of law' would have to be
taken to a higher court and a decision made there. Though in all
honesty I think most people would have the opinion that a unicycle is a
cycle and is covered by existing laws.


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  #28  
Old June 9th 07, 12:47 PM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
Naomi
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Default Fixed Penalty Charge - for unicycling


Firstly: bad mistake in correcting him. Had he recorded bicycle he
would probably have invalidated the ticket.

Secondly: Your unicycle is a "toy" of course. No way is it designed
for road use...surely not your honour. "Are you seriously suggesting I
should be riding my "toy" on the roadway, in London traffic?" "It is
much more like skateboarding than cycling."

And of course there was that PC who actually told you that you should
not be wobbling along on the road, just a few weeks ago, and to get on
the pavement, but to take care with the pedestrians.


Nao


--
Naomi

The dress in which I unicycled was not THAT short, but in retrospect, I
think that maybe the blue one would have been more appropriate to the
terrain. Nao April 2007.
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  #29  
Old June 9th 07, 12:47 PM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
Naomi
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Default Fixed Penalty Charge - for unicycling


Firstly: bad mistake in correcting him. Had he recorded bicycle he
would probably have invalidated the ticket.

Secondly: Your unicycle is a "toy" of course. No way is it designed
for road use...surely not your honour. "Are you seriously suggesting I
should be riding my "toy" on the roadway, in London traffic?" "It is
much more like skateboarding than cycling."

And of course there was that PC who actually told you that you should
not be wobbling along on the road, just a few weeks ago, and to get on
the pavement, but to take care with the pedestrians.


Nao


--
Naomi

The dress in which I unicycled was not THAT short, but in retrospect, I
think that maybe the blue one would have been more appropriate to the
terrain. Nao April 2007.
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  #30  
Old June 9th 07, 02:13 PM posted to rec.sport.unicycling
habbywall
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Default Fixed Penalty Charge - for unicycling


domesticated ape wrote:

Wheter it's illegal or not, lying in court about what unicycle you were
riding would be pretty sketchy, especially if you were under oath!




What if your athiest? Or do they not make you swear on the bible over
there?


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