2009 Pricing

In article
,
Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:

On Nov 27, 11:40*am, Hank wrote:
On Nov 27, 8:44*am, Qui si parla Campagnolo
wrote:



On Nov 27, 8:07*am, Tim McNamara wrote:

In article
,
*Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:

Previous post lamented the high price of SR. MailOrder places has 7900
now and what made it so expensive? Particularly when compared to 7800?
$700 STI levers, $700 aluminum crank, $70 chain and $300 cogset. Very
similar to Record, BTW, w/o the carbon. ALL 2009 'stuff' is too
expensive but HUGE gap between 6600 and 7900...and DAe-almost
$5000.....

Dunno what happened but at those prices it should be feasible to make a
complete group here in the US and sell it for less.

MO places were US based.

I think Tim meant "manufacture." To which I say, SRAM is HQed in
Chicago.

Nothing Sram 'makes' is made in the USA.

having looked at a few Park tools today I'd suggest they are going the
same way. just disgusting adjustable wrenches...

In article
,
Hank wrote:

On Nov 27, 8:44*am, Qui si parla Campagnolo
wrote:
On Nov 27, 8:07*am, Tim McNamara wrote:

In article

, *Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:

Previous post lamented the high price of SR. MailOrder places
has 7900 now and what made it so expensive? Particularly when
compared to 7800? $700 STI levers, $700 aluminum crank, $70
chain and $300 cogset. Very similar to Record, BTW, w/o the
carbon. ALL 2009 'stuff' is too expensive but HUGE gap between
6600 and 7900...and DAe-almost $5000.....

Dunno what happened but at those prices it should be feasible to
make a complete group here in the US and sell it for less.

MO places were US based.

I think Tim meant "manufacture." To which I say, SRAM is HQed in
Chicago.

But does not make a complete group (or do they? Maybe I've missed the
memo).

In article ,
A Muzi wrote:

Every factor is stacked against a US manufacturer.

Except being in the middle of the largest consumer economy in the world.
For a while, anyway.

On Nov 27, 7:55*pm, Tim McNamara wrote:
In article
,



*Hank wrote:
On Nov 27, 8:44*am, Qui si parla Campagnolo
wrote:
On Nov 27, 8:07*am, Tim McNamara wrote:

In article

, *Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:

Previous post lamented the high price of SR. MailOrder places
has 7900 now and what made it so expensive? Particularly when
compared to 7800? $700 STI levers, $700 aluminum crank, $70
chain and $300 cogset. Very similar to Record, BTW, w/o the
carbon. ALL 2009 'stuff' is too expensive but HUGE gap between
6600 and 7900...and DAe-almost $5000.....

Dunno what happened but at those prices it should be feasible to
make a complete group here in the US and sell it for less.

MO places were US based.

I think Tim meant "manufacture." To which I say, SRAM is HQed in
Chicago.

But does not make a complete group (or do they? *Maybe I've missed the
memo).

They do (Red, Force & Rival), but as Peter points out, all fabrication
is overseas.

A Muzi wrote:

Tim McNamara wrote:

Dunno what happened but at those prices it should be feasible to make a
complete group here in the US and sell it for less.

Duty on bicycle parts ranges zero to 15% most items 5%. Freight on an
ensemble about 3%, maybe less. Not enough spread for our expensive USA
overhead (very high corp taxes, environmental regulation, labor etc).

Note this is not a polemic. Simply, the numbers do not support USA built
full-ensemble pro bicycle equipment.

The point being made is that there is obviously so much fluff in the
margin on '09 Super Record and DA 7900 that an American manufacturer
could undercut them on price-- even if the USA firm had to account for
short-run production, union labor, better design, superior materials,
tighter tolerances, rhodium plating, jeweled mechanisms, Lance's
signature and a complimentary velvet gift bag.

Shimano and Campagnolo are asking to have their butts kicked by
_somebody_ for their insane top-tier pricing this time around. I have
a feeling that the general worldwide economic downturn will do it for
them. No tears will be shed.

Neither of them can lose me as a customer, though. I long ago
dismissed them as primarily dishing up morsels for consumption by
indiscriminate tools.

Chalo

"Chalo" wrote in message
...
A Muzi wrote:

Tim McNamara wrote:

Dunno what happened but at those prices it should be feasible to make a
complete group here in the US and sell it for less.

Duty on bicycle parts ranges zero to 15% most items 5%. Freight on an
ensemble about 3%, maybe less. Not enough spread for our expensive USA
overhead (very high corp taxes, environmental regulation, labor etc).

Note this is not a polemic. Simply, the numbers do not support USA built
full-ensemble pro bicycle equipment.

The point being made is that there is obviously so much fluff in the
margin on '09 Super Record and DA 7900 that an American manufacturer
could undercut them on price-- even if the USA firm had to account for
short-run production, union labor, better design, superior materials,
tighter tolerances, rhodium plating, jeweled mechanisms, Lance's
signature and a complimentary velvet gift bag.

Shimano and Campagnolo are asking to have their butts kicked by
_somebody_ for their insane top-tier pricing this time around. I have
a feeling that the general worldwide economic downturn will do it for
them. No tears will be shed.

Neither of them can lose me as a customer, though. I long ago
dismissed them as primarily dishing up morsels for consumption by
indiscriminate tools.

Chalo

There were a couple of new road shifter and derailleur kits displayed at
Interbike. One of them looked pretty decent. Supposedly it is based on the
rapidfire mechanism. The upshift lever was placed about the same as Shimano
Campy and SRAM, but the second switch had a really neat position. I may
contact the company to get a few sets, just to see if it is actually
worthwhile. Then of course comes the questions about parts, warranty,
compatibility, durability, and so forth...

Bruce

On Nov 27, 8:55*pm, Tim McNamara wrote:
In article
,



*Hank wrote:
On Nov 27, 8:44*am, Qui si parla Campagnolo
wrote:
On Nov 27, 8:07*am, Tim McNamara wrote:

In article

, *Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:

Previous post lamented the high price of SR. MailOrder places
has 7900 now and what made it so expensive? Particularly when
compared to 7800? $700 STI levers, $700 aluminum crank, $70
chain and $300 cogset. Very similar to Record, BTW, w/o the
carbon. ALL 2009 'stuff' is too expensive but HUGE gap between
6600 and 7900...and DAe-almost $5000.....

Dunno what happened but at those prices it should be feasible to
make a complete group here in the US and sell it for less.

MO places were US based.

I think Tim meant "manufacture." To which I say, SRAM is HQed in
Chicago.

But does not make a complete group (or do they? *Maybe I've missed the
memo).

WEll, sorta. The levers and derailleurs are sourced at various Asian
manufacturers that make other things. Cranks are Truvativ, brakes are
Avid. There really isn't any "Sram' factories making this stuff. Kinda
like Colnago. Manufacturing sourced out to places that make lts of
things, not just Sram.

On Nov 28, 5:40*am, "Bruce Gilbert" wrote:
"Chalo" wrote in message

...



A Muzi wrote:

Tim McNamara wrote:

Dunno what happened but at those prices it should be feasible to make a
complete group here in the US and sell it for less.

Duty on bicycle parts ranges zero to 15% most items 5%. Freight on an
ensemble about 3%, maybe less. Not enough spread for our expensive USA
overhead (very high corp taxes, environmental regulation, labor etc).

Note this is not a polemic. Simply, the numbers do not support USA built
full-ensemble pro bicycle equipment.

The point being made is that there is obviously so much fluff in the
margin on '09 Super Record and DA 7900 that an American manufacturer
could undercut them on price-- even if the USA firm had to account for
short-run production, union labor, better design, superior materials,
tighter tolerances, rhodium plating, jeweled mechanisms, Lance's
signature and a complimentary velvet gift bag.

Shimano and Campagnolo are asking to have their butts kicked by
_somebody_ for their insane top-tier pricing this time around. *I have
a feeling that the general worldwide economic downturn will do it for
them. *No tears will be shed.

Neither of them can lose me as a customer, though. *I long ago
dismissed them as primarily dishing up morsels for consumption by
indiscriminate tools.

Chalo

There were a couple of new road shifter and derailleur kits displayed at
Interbike. One of them looked pretty decent. Supposedly it is based on the
rapidfire mechanism. The upshift lever was placed about the same as Shimano
Campy and SRAM, but the second switch had a really neat position. I may
contact the company to get a few sets, just to see if it is actually
worthwhile. Then of course comes the questions about parts, warranty,
compatibility, durability, and so forth...

Bruce

Talk to Sampson..same shifter, derailleurs. Made by Taiwanese
company.

http://www.bikerumor.com/2008/11/13/...pson-diablo-sl

On Nov 28, 1:10*am, Chalo wrote:
A Muzi wrote:

Tim McNamara wrote:

Dunno what happened but at those prices it should be feasible to make a
complete group here in the US and sell it for less.

Duty on bicycle parts ranges zero to 15% most items 5%. Freight on an
ensemble about 3%, maybe less. Not enough spread for our expensive USA
overhead (very high corp taxes, environmental regulation, labor etc).

Note this is not a polemic. Simply, the numbers do not support USA built
full-ensemble pro bicycle equipment.

The point being made is that there is obviously so much fluff in the
margin on '09 Super Record and DA 7900 that an American manufacturer
could undercut them on price-- even if the USA firm had to account for
short-run production, union labor, better design, superior materials,
tighter tolerances, rhodium plating, jeweled mechanisms, Lance's
signature and a complimentary velvet gift bag.

Shimano and Campagnolo are asking to have their butts kicked by
_somebody_ for their insane top-tier pricing this time around. *I have
a feeling that the general worldwide economic downturn will do it for
them. *No tears will be shed.

Neither of them can lose me as a customer, though. *I long ago
dismissed them as primarily dishing up morsels for consumption by
indiscriminate tools.

Chalo

Doubt it. Just like $1000 suits and $7500 watches, this stuff is
selling, now. The demand here for Campagnolo SR outstrips Veloce and
Centaur. Remember they both make groups that are less than 1/3 the
price of SR and 7900. Who 'may' suffer is Sram, in spite of their new
found $, and the resulting rush to sponsor teams and riders. shimano
doesn't like to be out-OEMed, and their considerable monetary clout
will be felt by Sram.

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" wrote in message
...
On Nov 28, 5:40 am, "Bruce Gilbert" wrote:
"Chalo" wrote in message

...



A Muzi wrote:

Tim McNamara wrote:

Dunno what happened but at those prices it should be feasible to make
a
complete group here in the US and sell it for less.

Duty on bicycle parts ranges zero to 15% most items 5%. Freight on an
ensemble about 3%, maybe less. Not enough spread for our expensive USA
overhead (very high corp taxes, environmental regulation, labor etc).

Note this is not a polemic. Simply, the numbers do not support USA
built
full-ensemble pro bicycle equipment.

The point being made is that there is obviously so much fluff in the
margin on '09 Super Record and DA 7900 that an American manufacturer
could undercut them on price-- even if the USA firm had to account for
short-run production, union labor, better design, superior materials,
tighter tolerances, rhodium plating, jeweled mechanisms, Lance's
signature and a complimentary velvet gift bag.

Shimano and Campagnolo are asking to have their butts kicked by
_somebody_ for their insane top-tier pricing this time around. I have
a feeling that the general worldwide economic downturn will do it for
them. No tears will be shed.

Neither of them can lose me as a customer, though. I long ago
dismissed them as primarily dishing up morsels for consumption by
indiscriminate tools.

Chalo

There were a couple of new road shifter and derailleur kits displayed at
Interbike. One of them looked pretty decent. Supposedly it is based on the
rapidfire mechanism. The upshift lever was placed about the same as
Shimano
Campy and SRAM, but the second switch had a really neat position. I may
contact the company to get a few sets, just to see if it is actually
worthwhile. Then of course comes the questions about parts, warranty,
compatibility, durability, and so forth...

Bruce

Talk to Sampson..same shifter, derailleurs. Made by Taiwanese
company.

http://www.bikerumor.com/2008/11/13/...pson-diablo-sl


That looks like the same stuff. Karbona and Token have them as well.
Supposedly, they will shift with the same amount of cable pull as Shimano. I
would imagine that would make them "compatible" (dare I say that?)

Next year we are going to have to exhibit at Taiwan, Eurobike, Montreal and
Interbike. At that time, I will look for these parts to evolve and maybe
push to go mainstream. I'll let you know what I find...

Bruce