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Off Topic
On 8/4/2019 10:17 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, August 4, 2019 at 4:06:28 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote: On Sun, 4 Aug 2019 10:49:56 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/3/2019 11:30 PM, jbeattie wrote: Wow, now you're condoning murder of abortion providers? Even therapeutic abortion to save the mother? Incest? Abortion of non-viable fetuses? FWIW, I'm not condoning murder of anyone. But the "therapeutic abortion to save the mother" thing, and the incest and rape excuses, apply to only a tiny proportion of abortions. Generally speaking, they're a red herring. The vast majority of abortions are for simple birth control. In other words, those having sex aren't responsible enough to think ahead, or competently use birth control. Perhaps they don't want to interrupt their pleasure for a moment. When their gamble goes wrong, they kill the baby before it's born. It's simple - and a bit barbaric. While I'm not disagreeing with you, but the cases where I knew the details, actually not that many, a "birth control" abortion was conducted in the first three months of pregnancy. Back in the day, bar girls often got them and went right back to work the next day. Unless they were mangled by some back-alley abortionist or killed themselves with one of the do-it-yourself remedies. That's barbaric. And to Frank's point, it is complicated, but moralizing out people's sexual practices is like teaching abstinence -- useless. Hmm. So no sexual practice is immoral? We should teach nothing about sexual behavior? Everyone should just do whatever they want in the immediate moment? Really? What is complicated is deciding at what point the state's interest in preserving the life of a fetus outweighs the interest of the mother in not having a child. Different civilized and non-barbaric nations make different choices. https://reproductiverights.org/worldabortionlaws In US (and in many European nations), women are allowed to make the choice on their own, without any state involvement, based on their own religious and moral beliefs during the first trimester or thereabouts. That may offend some religious beliefs, but this is a nation of laws and not a papal state or caliphate. So, according to that site, the U.S. allows easier access to abortion for _any_ reason than about 128 other countries. IOW, the vast majority of countries don't treat the act of abortion so cavalierly. And that site mentions the fact that "The most common gestational limit for countries in this category is 12 weeks." That's putting it rather mildly. Only a very few (fewer than 10) countries allow abortions as late as the U.S. Yes, it varies state by state, but there are U.S. states with no real gestational limits. Again, personal responsibility seems hardly worth considering. Obviously, this is an astoundingly complicated issue. But we live in a society where sex is an unabashed marketing tool, personal responsibility is heavily downplayed, and hundreds of thousands of times per year the birth control technique is "just kill the thing." No "health of mother" excuses, no rape, no incest - just "I didn't use the pill or a condom, so kill it." -- - Frank Krygowski |
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