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Bad rear derailleur???



 
 
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  #1  
Old August 11th 19, 09:22 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Default Bad rear derailleur???

Did a gravel ride on Saturday morning. 43 miles total, about 30 was gravel.. Lot of rough gravel, very few hard, smooth, compacted stripes on the gravel road. I'm accustomed to gravel roads having well worn tracks where the cars drive. Nope.

For the final 6 miles of pavement, the rear derailleur did not work. When shifting up and down the cassette, it did not want to find the cog and jumped around a lot. I'd click and nothing happened. I'd click again and nothing happened. I'd click again and it would sort of grind and jump around looking for a cog. So I'd have to shift a bunch to get it to settle down into one cog. It did not go thunk into the next cog when shifting the STI levers.

And when shifting down to the small ring, the chain drooped on the bottom. The spring in the rear derailleur to pull it backwards and take up the chain slack was not working correctly. It wasn't strong enough to pull backwards with enough force. Had to ride the big ring only for the final miles, with the bad between cog shifting too. I basically had a single speed.

I cleaned the bike with the garden hose afterwards thinking maybe it was just the gravel dust that ruined everything. Have not had a chance to test the shifting in the basement shop. Will also try taking the derailleur off and re-lubing everything and really cleaning everything with gasoline. And spraying lubricant into the STI levers. And oiling the cables.

Questions: Can any 10 speed Shimano rear derailleur work? Dura Ace, Ultegra, 105, Tiagra, AND all of the mountain bike rear derailleurs? Nashbar has a lot of 10 speed rear derailleurs for sale. Thinking maybe a mountain will be better than road for gravel and mud? Its a short cage rear derailleur. But I was thinking maybe going medium or long if I could. Yes, no? I've never noticed any shifting difference between derailleur lengths. Current rings are 46-36 with 12-28 cassette. But maybe I will want to go 46-33 rings (110mm bcd five arm crank) and 11-32 or 11-34 ten speed cassette. Make it my second mountain climbing bike. But its a heavy steel frame...
  #2  
Old August 11th 19, 10:40 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Default Bad rear derailleur???

On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 3:22:40 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Did a gravel ride on Saturday morning. 43 miles total, about 30 was gravel. Lot of rough gravel, very few hard, smooth, compacted stripes on the gravel road. I'm accustomed to gravel roads having well worn tracks where the cars drive. Nope.

For the final 6 miles of pavement, the rear derailleur did not work. When shifting up and down the cassette, it did not want to find the cog and jumped around a lot. I'd click and nothing happened. I'd click again and nothing happened. I'd click again and it would sort of grind and jump around looking for a cog. So I'd have to shift a bunch to get it to settle down into one cog. It did not go thunk into the next cog when shifting the STI levers.

And when shifting down to the small ring, the chain drooped on the bottom.. The spring in the rear derailleur to pull it backwards and take up the chain slack was not working correctly. It wasn't strong enough to pull backwards with enough force. Had to ride the big ring only for the final miles, with the bad between cog shifting too. I basically had a single speed.

I cleaned the bike with the garden hose afterwards thinking maybe it was just the gravel dust that ruined everything. Have not had a chance to test the shifting in the basement shop. Will also try taking the derailleur off and re-lubing everything and really cleaning everything with gasoline. And spraying lubricant into the STI levers. And oiling the cables.

Questions: Can any 10 speed Shimano rear derailleur work? Dura Ace, Ultegra, 105, Tiagra, AND all of the mountain bike rear derailleurs? Nashbar has a lot of 10 speed rear derailleurs for sale. Thinking maybe a mountain will be better than road for gravel and mud? Its a short cage rear derailleur. But I was thinking maybe going medium or long if I could. Yes, no? I've never noticed any shifting difference between derailleur lengths. Current rings are 46-36 with 12-28 cassette. But maybe I will want to go 46-33 rings (110mm bcd five arm crank) and 11-32 or 11-34 ten speed cassette. Make it my second mountain climbing bike. But its a heavy steel frame...



Did some work on the bike. Took the cable, chain, rear derailleur off. The bottom spring in the rear derailleur that pulls the pulley cage backwards to take up chain slack, is bad. Spring does not pull back much at all. No tension, resistance on the pulley cage. Pulley cage does not snap back. I cannot see any way to get access to this spring for replacement. Or repair if its even possible to repair springs? So it looks like a new rear derailleur is needed.

Mountain or road? Shimano of course. But are mountain derailleurs better at resisting dust infiltration and not working? 10 speed. Are road 10 STI and mountain 10 speed rear derailleurs compatible? I know Shimano stopped making road and mountain work together some time in the past.

Short again, or go up to medium/long to get more capacity if I ever expand gearing?
  #3  
Old August 11th 19, 11:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Default Bad rear derailleur???

On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 5:40:06 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 3:22:40 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Did a gravel ride on Saturday morning. 43 miles total, about 30 was gravel. Lot of rough gravel, very few hard, smooth, compacted stripes on the gravel road. I'm accustomed to gravel roads having well worn tracks where the cars drive. Nope.

For the final 6 miles of pavement, the rear derailleur did not work. When shifting up and down the cassette, it did not want to find the cog and jumped around a lot. I'd click and nothing happened. I'd click again and nothing happened. I'd click again and it would sort of grind and jump around looking for a cog. So I'd have to shift a bunch to get it to settle down into one cog. It did not go thunk into the next cog when shifting the STI levers.

And when shifting down to the small ring, the chain drooped on the bottom. The spring in the rear derailleur to pull it backwards and take up the chain slack was not working correctly. It wasn't strong enough to pull backwards with enough force. Had to ride the big ring only for the final miles, with the bad between cog shifting too. I basically had a single speed.

I cleaned the bike with the garden hose afterwards thinking maybe it was just the gravel dust that ruined everything. Have not had a chance to test the shifting in the basement shop. Will also try taking the derailleur off and re-lubing everything and really cleaning everything with gasoline. And spraying lubricant into the STI levers. And oiling the cables.

Questions: Can any 10 speed Shimano rear derailleur work? Dura Ace, Ultegra, 105, Tiagra, AND all of the mountain bike rear derailleurs? Nashbar has a lot of 10 speed rear derailleurs for sale. Thinking maybe a mountain will be better than road for gravel and mud? Its a short cage rear derailleur. But I was thinking maybe going medium or long if I could. Yes, no? I've never noticed any shifting difference between derailleur lengths. Current rings are 46-36 with 12-28 cassette. But maybe I will want to go 46-33 rings (110mm bcd five arm crank) and 11-32 or 11-34 ten speed cassette.. Make it my second mountain climbing bike. But its a heavy steel frame....



Did some work on the bike. Took the cable, chain, rear derailleur off. The bottom spring in the rear derailleur that pulls the pulley cage backwards to take up chain slack, is bad. Spring does not pull back much at all. No tension, resistance on the pulley cage. Pulley cage does not snap back.. I cannot see any way to get access to this spring for replacement. Or repair if its even possible to repair springs? So it looks like a new rear derailleur is needed.

Mountain or road? Shimano of course. But are mountain derailleurs better at resisting dust infiltration and not working? 10 speed. Are road 10 STI and mountain 10 speed rear derailleurs compatible? I know Shimano stopped making road and mountain work together some time in the past.

Short again, or go up to medium/long to get more capacity if I ever expand gearing?


On some rear derailleurs there's a bolt that you can undo and remove that will then allow you to wind up the rear cage another turn thereby putting more tension on the spring. Once you wind up the cage you hold it in position and reinsert the holding bolt. I've done that with a few rear derailleurs. An image of the backside of your derailleur would be a real help.

Here are some examples. The bolt I'm talking about is:

Part #7 in this diagram.

http://www.disraeligears.co.uk/Site/...-_image_1.html

Part #9 on this diagram.

https://cdn.shoplightspeed.com/shops...plate-axle.jpg

Part #2 on this diagram.

https://www.thebikefactory.co.uk/con...type_85610.jpg

Good luck and cheers
  #4  
Old August 12th 19, 01:38 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Posts: 1,561
Default Bad rear derailleur???

On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 5:32:33 PM UTC-5, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 5:40:06 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 3:22:40 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Did a gravel ride on Saturday morning. 43 miles total, about 30 was gravel. Lot of rough gravel, very few hard, smooth, compacted stripes on the gravel road. I'm accustomed to gravel roads having well worn tracks where the cars drive. Nope.

For the final 6 miles of pavement, the rear derailleur did not work. When shifting up and down the cassette, it did not want to find the cog and jumped around a lot. I'd click and nothing happened. I'd click again and nothing happened. I'd click again and it would sort of grind and jump around looking for a cog. So I'd have to shift a bunch to get it to settle down into one cog. It did not go thunk into the next cog when shifting the STI levers.

And when shifting down to the small ring, the chain drooped on the bottom. The spring in the rear derailleur to pull it backwards and take up the chain slack was not working correctly. It wasn't strong enough to pull backwards with enough force. Had to ride the big ring only for the final miles, with the bad between cog shifting too. I basically had a single speed.

I cleaned the bike with the garden hose afterwards thinking maybe it was just the gravel dust that ruined everything. Have not had a chance to test the shifting in the basement shop. Will also try taking the derailleur off and re-lubing everything and really cleaning everything with gasoline.. And spraying lubricant into the STI levers. And oiling the cables.

Questions: Can any 10 speed Shimano rear derailleur work? Dura Ace, Ultegra, 105, Tiagra, AND all of the mountain bike rear derailleurs? Nashbar has a lot of 10 speed rear derailleurs for sale. Thinking maybe a mountain will be better than road for gravel and mud? Its a short cage rear derailleur. But I was thinking maybe going medium or long if I could. Yes, no? I've never noticed any shifting difference between derailleur lengths. Current rings are 46-36 with 12-28 cassette. But maybe I will want to go 46-33 rings (110mm bcd five arm crank) and 11-32 or 11-34 ten speed cassette. Make it my second mountain climbing bike. But its a heavy steel frame....



Did some work on the bike. Took the cable, chain, rear derailleur off. The bottom spring in the rear derailleur that pulls the pulley cage backwards to take up chain slack, is bad. Spring does not pull back much at all.. No tension, resistance on the pulley cage. Pulley cage does not snap back. I cannot see any way to get access to this spring for replacement. Or repair if its even possible to repair springs? So it looks like a new rear derailleur is needed.

Mountain or road? Shimano of course. But are mountain derailleurs better at resisting dust infiltration and not working? 10 speed. Are road 10 STI and mountain 10 speed rear derailleurs compatible? I know Shimano stopped making road and mountain work together some time in the past.

Short again, or go up to medium/long to get more capacity if I ever expand gearing?


On some rear derailleurs there's a bolt that you can undo and remove that will then allow you to wind up the rear cage another turn thereby putting more tension on the spring. Once you wind up the cage you hold it in position and reinsert the holding bolt. I've done that with a few rear derailleurs. An image of the backside of your derailleur would be a real help.

Here are some examples. The bolt I'm talking about is:

Part #7 in this diagram.

http://www.disraeligears.co.uk/Site/...-_image_1.html

Part #9 on this diagram.

https://cdn.shoplightspeed.com/shops...plate-axle.jpg

Part #2 on this diagram.

https://www.thebikefactory.co.uk/con...type_85610.jpg

Good luck and cheers


Thanks. I checked my Shimano 105 short cage rear derailleur and could not find any of the adjusting screws shown in the diagrams you posted. One of your diagrams was for Dura Ace so I thought Dura Ace, Ultegra, 105 were essentially the same. But apparently Shimano allows mechanics to work on expensive Dura Ace derailleurs but for cheap 105, no working on allowed. The only access to the wound up, enclosed spring at the bottom of the derailleur is a 2mm hole on the bottom. I stuck the 2mm Allen wrench in it and turned both directions, but the spring did not change either way. So I ordered a new medium cage 105 derailleur for $48. Hopefully it will last better if I take any more gravel rides.
  #5  
Old August 12th 19, 02:55 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Default Bad rear derailleur???

On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 8:39:00 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 5:32:33 PM UTC-5, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 5:40:06 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 3:22:40 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Did a gravel ride on Saturday morning. 43 miles total, about 30 was gravel. Lot of rough gravel, very few hard, smooth, compacted stripes on the gravel road. I'm accustomed to gravel roads having well worn tracks where the cars drive. Nope.

For the final 6 miles of pavement, the rear derailleur did not work.. When shifting up and down the cassette, it did not want to find the cog and jumped around a lot. I'd click and nothing happened. I'd click again and nothing happened. I'd click again and it would sort of grind and jump around looking for a cog. So I'd have to shift a bunch to get it to settle down into one cog. It did not go thunk into the next cog when shifting the STI levers.

And when shifting down to the small ring, the chain drooped on the bottom. The spring in the rear derailleur to pull it backwards and take up the chain slack was not working correctly. It wasn't strong enough to pull backwards with enough force. Had to ride the big ring only for the final miles, with the bad between cog shifting too. I basically had a single speed.

I cleaned the bike with the garden hose afterwards thinking maybe it was just the gravel dust that ruined everything. Have not had a chance to test the shifting in the basement shop. Will also try taking the derailleur off and re-lubing everything and really cleaning everything with gasoline. And spraying lubricant into the STI levers. And oiling the cables.

Questions: Can any 10 speed Shimano rear derailleur work? Dura Ace, Ultegra, 105, Tiagra, AND all of the mountain bike rear derailleurs? Nashbar has a lot of 10 speed rear derailleurs for sale. Thinking maybe a mountain will be better than road for gravel and mud? Its a short cage rear derailleur. But I was thinking maybe going medium or long if I could. Yes, no? I've never noticed any shifting difference between derailleur lengths. Current rings are 46-36 with 12-28 cassette. But maybe I will want to go 46-33 rings (110mm bcd five arm crank) and 11-32 or 11-34 ten speed cassette. Make it my second mountain climbing bike. But its a heavy steel frame...


Did some work on the bike. Took the cable, chain, rear derailleur off. The bottom spring in the rear derailleur that pulls the pulley cage backwards to take up chain slack, is bad. Spring does not pull back much at all. No tension, resistance on the pulley cage. Pulley cage does not snap back. I cannot see any way to get access to this spring for replacement. Or repair if its even possible to repair springs? So it looks like a new rear derailleur is needed.

Mountain or road? Shimano of course. But are mountain derailleurs better at resisting dust infiltration and not working? 10 speed. Are road 10 STI and mountain 10 speed rear derailleurs compatible? I know Shimano stopped making road and mountain work together some time in the past.

Short again, or go up to medium/long to get more capacity if I ever expand gearing?


On some rear derailleurs there's a bolt that you can undo and remove that will then allow you to wind up the rear cage another turn thereby putting more tension on the spring. Once you wind up the cage you hold it in position and reinsert the holding bolt. I've done that with a few rear derailleurs. An image of the backside of your derailleur would be a real help.

Here are some examples. The bolt I'm talking about is:

Part #7 in this diagram.

http://www.disraeligears.co.uk/Site/...-_image_1.html

Part #9 on this diagram.

https://cdn.shoplightspeed.com/shops...plate-axle.jpg

Part #2 on this diagram.

https://www.thebikefactory.co.uk/con...type_85610.jpg

Good luck and cheers


Thanks. I checked my Shimano 105 short cage rear derailleur and could not find any of the adjusting screws shown in the diagrams you posted. One of your diagrams was for Dura Ace so I thought Dura Ace, Ultegra, 105 were essentially the same. But apparently Shimano allows mechanics to work on expensive Dura Ace derailleurs but for cheap 105, no working on allowed. The only access to the wound up, enclosed spring at the bottom of the derailleur is a 2mm hole on the bottom. I stuck the 2mm Allen wrench in it and turned both directions, but the spring did not change either way. So I ordered a new medium cage 105 derailleur for $48. Hopefully it will last better if I take any more gravel rides.


I'd be interested in seeing an image or two of the cage area of your existing rear derailleur.

Cheers
  #6  
Old August 12th 19, 03:09 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Chalo
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Default Bad rear derailleur???

Note that Shimano road and MTB 10 speed derailleurs have different pull ratios. Rear derailleurs and shifters are miscible up to 9 speed.
  #7  
Old August 12th 19, 08:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Default Bad rear derailleur???

On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 9:09:23 PM UTC-5, Chalo wrote:
Note that Shimano road and MTB 10 speed derailleurs have different pull ratios. Rear derailleurs and shifters are miscible up to 9 speed.


On my touring bike I am using 10 speed Shimano 105 STI levers and Shimano Deore 9 speed rear derailleur. Shifts good. 44-33-20 chainrings, 11-32 ten speed cassette. I think with Shimano Road 10 speed, it works with road 10 rear derailleurs, and mountain 9 rear derailleurs. But no 10 road STI and 10 mountain rear derailleur. No no.

On this malfunctioning cyclo cross bike I am going read 10 speed Shimano STI levers and Shimano 105 ten speed medium cage rear derailleur. So no potential for incompatibility.
  #8  
Old August 13th 19, 03:30 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
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Posts: 5,893
Default Bad rear derailleur???

On 2019-08-11 19:09, Chalo wrote:
Note that Shimano road and MTB 10 speed derailleurs have different
pull ratios. Rear derailleurs and shifters are miscible up to 9
speed.


Not really. I have a 7-speed set-up on my road bike and, after a crash
and restore, wanted to use the Alivio shifters from a 7-speed MTB on my
road bike. Measured the cable pull ration and it was almost 10%
different. So I still have friction shifters on the road bike until I
transplant the derailer. Which won't be easy since I have a 40T cog in back.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #9  
Old August 13th 19, 04:15 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
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Posts: 1,231
Default Bad rear derailleur???

On Tuesday, August 13, 2019 at 7:31:00 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2019-08-11 19:09, Chalo wrote:
Note that Shimano road and MTB 10 speed derailleurs have different
pull ratios. Rear derailleurs and shifters are miscible up to 9
speed.


Not really. I have a 7-speed set-up on my road bike and, after a crash
and restore, wanted to use the Alivio shifters from a 7-speed MTB on my
road bike. Measured the cable pull ration and it was almost 10%
different. So I still have friction shifters on the road bike until I
transplant the derailer. Which won't be easy since I have a 40T cog in back.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


After that car hit me the bike was straightened and it rode fine but would never shift quite right and generally the longer the ride the worse the shifting would get. Finally I eye-balled the rear hanger and it was crooked. Took out the large crescent wrench and straightened it and it shifts perfectly without a hitch.
  #10  
Old August 13th 19, 03:47 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ted Heise
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Posts: 54
Default Bad rear derailleur???

On Sun, 11 Aug 2019 19:09:21 -0700 (PDT),
Chalo wrote:
Note that Shimano road and MTB 10 speed derailleurs have
different pull ratios. Rear derailleurs and shifters are
miscible up to 9 speed.


This might be why I could never get really good shifting on my
tandem, which came with 10-speed Shimano brifters and mountain
bike (XTR?) rear derailer. I could adjust it to shift well across
only part of the cassette. I swapped the rear der for the newish
long throw road derailer, and it now shifts beautifully.

--
Ted Heise West Lafayette, IN, USA
 




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