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Cycling deaths in Toronto traced back to city infrastructure



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 3rd 15, 02:42 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
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Posts: 4,492
Default Cycling deaths in Toronto traced back to city infrastructure

Whilst the article is interesting the Comments section below it is even more interesting largely because of the many anti-bicycles on the road comments. A lot of those comments complain about what we hew call 'Scofflaw bicyclists' who ride willy nilly.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dail...141935846.html

Cheers
Ads
  #2  
Old July 3rd 15, 03:35 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tim McNamara
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Posts: 6,864
Default Cycling deaths in Toronto traced back to city infrastructure

On Fri, 3 Jul 2015 06:42:05 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:
Whilst the article is interesting the Comments section below it is
even more interesting largely because of the many anti-bicycles on the
road comments. A lot of those comments complain about what we hew call
'Scofflaw bicyclists' who ride willy nilly.


Funny that they never compain about the scofflaw drivers- who are
actually the majority of people behind the wheel around here. The
drivers who actually obey the law are treated with disdain, get fliped
off, yelled at honked at.

Double standards make me laugh.
  #3  
Old July 3rd 15, 03:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,492
Default Cycling deaths in Toronto traced back to city infrastructure

On Friday, July 3, 2015 at 10:35:54 AM UTC-4, Tim McNamara wrote:
On Fri, 3 Jul 2015 06:42:05 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote:
Whilst the article is interesting the Comments section below it is
even more interesting largely because of the many anti-bicycles on the
road comments. A lot of those comments complain about what we hew call
'Scofflaw bicyclists' who ride willy nilly.


Funny that they never compain about the scofflaw drivers- who are
actually the majority of people behind the wheel around here. The
drivers who actually obey the law are treated with disdain, get fliped
off, yelled at honked at.

Double standards make me laugh.


+1
  #4  
Old July 3rd 15, 03:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,611
Default Cycling deaths in Toronto traced back to city infrastructure

On 7/3/2015 9:42 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Whilst the article is interesting the Comments section below it is even more interesting largely because of the many anti-bicycles on the road comments. A lot of those comments complain about what we hew call 'Scofflaw bicyclists' who ride willy nilly.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dail...141935846.html


Paragraphs I found interesting:

"“Toronto has located cycle lanes directly in the path of opening
car-doors, without the required space allowance, which of course has
created a major hazard and fanned a sterile debate about who is to blame
when a driver or passenger throws open a door and potentially kills or
seriously harms passersby,” adds Sagaris.

Case in point, between November 2013 and August 2014, police received 62
reports of dooring.

Meanwhile, intersections – where most collisions occur – have received
little to no attention."

Yet I know of a very energetic cycling advocacy group that's actively
lobbying for door-zone bike lanes! And the League of American
Bicyclists gives positive "Bike Friendly" points to cities that have
door zone bike lanes. Personally, I think a DZBL should blackball a
city from "Friendly" status.

Also:

"Meanwhile, intersections – where most collisions occur – have received
little to no attention..."

"“(It’s) important progress, things like the Richmond and Adelaide
separated cycle tracks..."

Someone's not recognizing that cycletracks are a strategy to reduce only
the (largely mythical) hits-from-behind between intersections, and that
they greatly complicate interactions at intersections. Yes,
intersections are where most collisions occur; and cycletracks don't
help. They probably hurt. This is why AASHTO has recommended against
cycletracks for decades.

But those guys are stuffy old engineers. According to some, it's high
time that facility design was put in charge of watercolor artists!


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #5  
Old July 3rd 15, 03:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,821
Default Cycling deaths in Toronto traced back to city infrastructure

On 2015-07-03 6:42 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Whilst the article is interesting the Comments section below it is
even more interesting largely because of the many anti-bicycles on
the road comments. A lot of those comments complain about what we hew
call 'Scofflaw bicyclists' who ride willy nilly.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dail...141935846.html


Then there are car drivers who are hell-bent on "clearing the road of
cyclists" like it just happened around he

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/cri...e26112064.html

The picture illustrates why I agree with the notion in the Canadian
article that more bike infrastructure is needed. It's a miracle that
this cyclist survived. The first cyclist was just side-swiped but the
two others were hit full brunt from behind at high speed. IIRC one was
catapulted across the road to the left and the other one crashed into
the windshield.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #6  
Old July 3rd 15, 04:44 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,492
Default Cycling deaths in Toronto traced back to city infrastructure

On Friday, July 3, 2015 at 10:46:32 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2015-07-03 6:42 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Whilst the article is interesting the Comments section below it is
even more interesting largely because of the many anti-bicycles on
the road comments. A lot of those comments complain about what we hew
call 'Scofflaw bicyclists' who ride willy nilly.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dail...141935846.html


Then there are car drivers who are hell-bent on "clearing the road of
cyclists" like it just happened around he

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/cri...e26112064.html

The picture illustrates why I agree with the notion in the Canadian
article that more bike infrastructure is needed. It's a miracle that
this cyclist survived. The first cyclist was just side-swiped but the
two others were hit full brunt from behind at high speed. IIRC one was
catapulted across the road to the left and the other one crashed into
the windshield.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


My experiences with bicycle lanes in Ontaro Canada is that they are crap ad are more dan
gerous than no bicycle lane. I'm trying to get across town in a reasonable amou
nt of time an
d i don't need to have the aggravation of trying to move from the far right bike lane over to make a left turn. If I'm riding in a traffic lane i find is far far easier to make that left turn. As far as i'm con
cerned fully segregated bicycle only lanes are an abomination and one had better have highly puncture resistant tires because those segregated lanes aren't cleared very often - heck even the right hand painted strip bicycle lanes are full of debris and you risk your tires every single time you ride in one of those bicycle lanes. Agawin making a left turn is very hard and dan
gerous to do in a right hand bicycle lane. What's one supposed to do - rided through the intersection, stop nd then reposition oneself in the direction one wishes to travel?

About the only thing good about many bicycle lanes is that they get the really slow bicyclists out of thetraffic lane and that allows a smoother flow of other traffic including fast bicyclists.

A lot of bicycle lanes simply reduce bicyclists to second class citizens.

Cheers
  #7  
Old July 3rd 15, 05:25 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,821
Default Cycling deaths in Toronto traced back to city infrastructure

On 2015-07-03 8:44 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, July 3, 2015 at 10:46:32 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2015-07-03 6:42 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Whilst the article is interesting the Comments section below it
is even more interesting largely because of the many
anti-bicycles on the road comments. A lot of those comments
complain about what we hew call 'Scofflaw bicyclists' who ride
willy nilly.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dail...141935846.html




Then there are car drivers who are hell-bent on "clearing the road of
cyclists" like it just happened around he

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/cri...e26112064.html

The picture illustrates why I agree with the notion in the
Canadian article that more bike infrastructure is needed. It's a
miracle that this cyclist survived. The first cyclist was just
side-swiped but the two others were hit full brunt from behind at
high speed. IIRC one was catapulted across the road to the left and
the other one crashed into the windshield.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


My experiences with bicycle lanes in Ontaro Canada is that they are
crap ad are more dan gerous than no bicycle lane. I'm trying to get
across town in a reasonable amou nt of time an d i don't need to have
the aggravation of trying to move from the far right bike lane over
to make a left turn. If I'm riding in a traffic lane i find is far
far easier to make that left turn. ...



I don't have problems with that. Ahead of time I move over to the center
of the road and hold out my left hand. Car drivers generally understand
and pass me on the right unless they also want to turn left. During rush
hour getting to road center can be an issue but the same is true on
roads without bike lanes because of an endless row of passing cars.


... As far as i'm con cerned fully
segregated bicycle only lanes are an abomination and one had better
have highly puncture resistant tires because those segregated lanes
aren't cleared very often - heck even the right hand painted strip
bicycle lanes are full of debris and you risk your tires every single
time you ride in one of those bicycle lanes. ...



That is indeed an issue since the bike lanes aren't cleaned well or
sometimes not at all. I mounted Gatorskins plus tubes with 0.120" or 3mm
wall thickness - problem fixed. When I am on my MTB that is even better
equipped, knobby tires, 0.160" or 4mm wall thickness tubes, plus tire
liner, plus a regular tube over the tire liner. After I did all that I
never again had flats. Ever.


... Agawin making a left
turn is very hard and dan gerous to do in a right hand bicycle lane.
What's one supposed to do - rided through the intersection, stop nd
then reposition oneself in the direction one wishes to travel?


I just hold out my left hand and slowly move leftward. Many drivers will
continue to hurriedly pass me but there nearly always comes one who
slows down for me. Maybe another cyclist behind the wheel, or just a
friendly person.


About the only thing good about many bicycle lanes is that they get
the really slow bicyclists out of thetraffic lane and that allows a
smoother flow of other traffic including fast bicyclists.

A lot of bicycle lanes simply reduce bicyclists to second class
citizens.


Not around here, they are used by every one including fast road bikers.
My favorite are totally segregated paths though. Like the one I am going
to use later today, singletrack. About the only chance to be mowed down
by anything motorized would be if an alien spaceship had an engine
failure right above.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #8  
Old July 4th 15, 01:37 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,545
Default Cycling deaths in Toronto traced back to city infrastructure

Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, July 3, 2015 at 10:46:32 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2015-07-03 6:42 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Whilst the article is interesting the Comments section below it is
even more interesting largely because of the many anti-bicycles on
the road comments. A lot of those comments complain about what we hew
call 'Scofflaw bicyclists' who ride willy nilly.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dail...141935846.html


Then there are car drivers who are hell-bent on "clearing the road of
cyclists" like it just happened around he

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/cri...e26112064.html

The picture illustrates why I agree with the notion in the Canadian
article that more bike infrastructure is needed. It's a miracle that
this cyclist survived. The first cyclist was just side-swiped but the
two others were hit full brunt from behind at high speed. IIRC one was
catapulted across the road to the left and the other one crashed into
the windshield.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


My experiences with bicycle lanes in Ontaro Canada is that they are crap ad are more dan
gerous than no bicycle lane. I'm trying to get across town in a reasonable amou
nt of time an
d i don't need to have the aggravation of trying to move from the far
right bike lane over to make a left turn. If I'm riding in a traffic lane
i find is far far easier to make that left turn. As far as i'm con
cerned fully segregated bicycle only lanes are an abomination and one had
better have highly puncture resistant tires because those segregated
lanes aren't cleared very often - heck even the right hand painted strip
bicycle lanes are full of debris and you risk your tires every single
time you ride in one of those bicycle lanes. Agawin making a left turn is very hard and dan
gerous to do in a right hand bicycle lane. What's one supposed to do -
rided through the intersection, stop nd then reposition oneself in the
direction one wishes to travel?

About the only thing good about many bicycle lanes is that they get the
really slow bicyclists out of thetraffic lane and that allows a smoother
flow of other traffic including fast bicyclists.

A lot of bicycle lanes simply reduce bicyclists to second class citizens.

Cheers


On the other hand I did a 100k in eastern Ontario today around Dalkeith and
we noticed a distinct change with drivers moving to the next land to pass
us. The new min passing distance law seems to be working. May least to
some extent.

We've been trying to get one passes in Quebec to clarify the vehicle code
that just requires motorists to pass only when it's safe. So far it's been
a no go. But recently a respected journalist Isabelle Richer was hit head
on when a minivan passed a slow moving vehicle and came into the lane where
her group was riding. Now the media is pushing to pass this law. She is
out of the coma now and expected to return to work in 6 months. I expect
her to publicize this.

I agree with you at least to say that SOME bike lanes reduce cyclists to
second class citizens. I also use some that are useful. But there are
other ways to make cycling safer and a minimum passing law is one.
--
duane
  #9  
Old July 4th 15, 03:11 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,492
Default Cycling deaths in Toronto traced back to city infrastructure

On Friday, July 3, 2015 at 8:39:16 PM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, July 3, 2015 at 10:46:32 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2015-07-03 6:42 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Whilst the article is interesting the Comments section below it is
even more interesting largely because of the many anti-bicycles on
the road comments. A lot of those comments complain about what we hew
call 'Scofflaw bicyclists' who ride willy nilly.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dail...141935846.html


Then there are car drivers who are hell-bent on "clearing the road of
cyclists" like it just happened around he

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/cri...e26112064.html

The picture illustrates why I agree with the notion in the Canadian
article that more bike infrastructure is needed. It's a miracle that
this cyclist survived. The first cyclist was just side-swiped but the
two others were hit full brunt from behind at high speed. IIRC one was
catapulted across the road to the left and the other one crashed into
the windshield.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


My experiences with bicycle lanes in Ontaro Canada is that they are crap ad are more dan
gerous than no bicycle lane. I'm trying to get across town in a reasonable amou
nt of time an
d i don't need to have the aggravation of trying to move from the far
right bike lane over to make a left turn. If I'm riding in a traffic lane
i find is far far easier to make that left turn. As far as i'm con
cerned fully segregated bicycle only lanes are an abomination and one had
better have highly puncture resistant tires because those segregated
lanes aren't cleared very often - heck even the right hand painted strip
bicycle lanes are full of debris and you risk your tires every single
time you ride in one of those bicycle lanes. Agawin making a left turn is very hard and dan
gerous to do in a right hand bicycle lane. What's one supposed to do -
rided through the intersection, stop nd then reposition oneself in the
direction one wishes to travel?

About the only thing good about many bicycle lanes is that they get the
really slow bicyclists out of thetraffic lane and that allows a smoother
flow of other traffic including fast bicyclists.

A lot of bicycle lanes simply reduce bicyclists to second class citizens.

Cheers


On the other hand I did a 100k in eastern Ontario today around Dalkeith and
we noticed a distinct change with drivers moving to the next land to pass
us. The new min passing distance law seems to be working. May least to
some extent.

We've been trying to get one passes in Quebec to clarify the vehicle code
that just requires motorists to pass only when it's safe. So far it's been
a no go. But recently a respected journalist Isabelle Richer was hit head
on when a minivan passed a slow moving vehicle and came into the lane where
her group was riding. Now the media is pushing to pass this law. She is
out of the coma now and expected to return to work in 6 months. I expect
her to publicize this.

I agree with you at least to say that SOME bike lanes reduce cyclists to
second class citizens. I also use some that are useful. But there are
other ways to make cycling safer and a minimum passing law is one.
--
duane


Ontario recently paased a one metre passing law. Maybe that's why they're passing you further.

heers
  #10  
Old July 4th 15, 03:47 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,545
Default Cycling deaths in Toronto traced back to city infrastructure

Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, July 3, 2015 at 8:39:16 PM UTC-4, Duane wrote:
Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, July 3, 2015 at 10:46:32 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2015-07-03 6:42 AM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Whilst the article is interesting the Comments section below it is
even more interesting largely because of the many anti-bicycles on
the road comments. A lot of those comments complain about what we hew
call 'Scofflaw bicyclists' who ride willy nilly.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dail...141935846.html


Then there are car drivers who are hell-bent on "clearing the road of
cyclists" like it just happened around he

http://www.sacbee.com/news/local/cri...e26112064.html

The picture illustrates why I agree with the notion in the Canadian
article that more bike infrastructure is needed. It's a miracle that
this cyclist survived. The first cyclist was just side-swiped but the
two others were hit full brunt from behind at high speed. IIRC one was
catapulted across the road to the left and the other one crashed into
the windshield.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

My experiences with bicycle lanes in Ontaro Canada is that they are crap ad are more dan
gerous than no bicycle lane. I'm trying to get across town in a reasonable amou
nt of time an
d i don't need to have the aggravation of trying to move from the far
right bike lane over to make a left turn. If I'm riding in a traffic lane
i find is far far easier to make that left turn. As far as i'm con
cerned fully segregated bicycle only lanes are an abomination and one had
better have highly puncture resistant tires because those segregated
lanes aren't cleared very often - heck even the right hand painted strip
bicycle lanes are full of debris and you risk your tires every single
time you ride in one of those bicycle lanes. Agawin making a left turn
is very hard and dan
gerous to do in a right hand bicycle lane. What's one supposed to do -
rided through the intersection, stop nd then reposition oneself in the
direction one wishes to travel?

About the only thing good about many bicycle lanes is that they get the
really slow bicyclists out of thetraffic lane and that allows a smoother
flow of other traffic including fast bicyclists.

A lot of bicycle lanes simply reduce bicyclists to second class citizens.

Cheers


On the other hand I did a 100k in eastern Ontario today around Dalkeith and
we noticed a distinct change with drivers moving to the next land to pass
us. The new min passing distance law seems to be working. May least to
some extent.

We've been trying to get one passes in Quebec to clarify the vehicle code
that just requires motorists to pass only when it's safe. So far it's been
a no go. But recently a respected journalist Isabelle Richer was hit head
on when a minivan passed a slow moving vehicle and came into the lane where
her group was riding. Now the media is pushing to pass this law. She is
out of the coma now and expected to return to work in 6 months. I expect
her to publicize this.

I agree with you at least to say that SOME bike lanes reduce cyclists to
second class citizens. I also use some that are useful. But there are
other ways to make cycling safer and a minimum passing law is one.
--
duane


Ontario recently paased a one metre passing law. Maybe that's why they're
passing you further.

heers


Yeah that's what I was saying. Seems like it could be working.
--
duane
 




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