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  #51  
Old August 4th 19, 06:19 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
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Posts: 824
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On Sat, 3 Aug 2019 21:45:06 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 8/3/2019 8:42 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 3 Aug 2019 20:14:16 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 8/3/2019 6:53 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 3 Aug 2019 12:19:50 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 8/3/2019 11:55 AM, jbeattie wrote:
... even a sensible Democrat is clearly superior to the insane asylum the Left has conjured up out of the fraudulent "oppression" of tiny minorities, who together cannot account for rolling a single log...

Agreed. And I think lots of people agree.

Murder is definitional -- and if it is licensed, it is not murder. Whether one can murder a fetus in the US varies from state to state. The religious and historical prohibition on murder was to maintain social peace and order. The Fifth Commandment did not apply to a fetus, at least not absolutely and not according to the Jews -- whose God god wrote the rule (although the original was lost for many years until found by Stephen Spielberg.) Regrettably, Catholics and conservative Christians have pushed for prohibition as an article of faith and without regard to what becomes of the fetus once born, and in fact Christian conservatives bemoan the "welfare state."

I disagree with that final sentence. At least around here, there are
many church-based institutions that care for women and children, and
there are ongoing congregational charity drives for them. We contribute.

I'm not "into" women's rights but can the death of a fetus that would
not survive if removed from the mother logically be termed "murder"?

And conversely, babies born after 24 weeks are now regularly saved. But
others are aborted after 24 weeks. Granted, it's not common - but what
should it be called?


I don't know and my thoughts were aimed at early abortion before the
fetus is capable of survival outside the mother. And those who cry
that any abortion is murder.

What should it be called? I don't know and frankly I don't care as my
attitude is that I will do as good as I can do and what you do is up
to you. The uniquely Christian concept that one should run about and
force their neighbors to conform to "their" belief is totally foreign
to me.


Wow. I'm amazed you can call that "uniquely Christian." You must have no
knowledge at all about muslims, , various pagans, etc.


Actually I do as at various times, in my military career I was
assigned to places where there wasn't much reading material so I read
various religious books and at other times I was living or working in
a country that wasn't predominately Christian and felt it useful to
know what "they" were doing.

Moslem -the Holy Koran, i.e.," The Word of God", sets forth the
parameters for "infidels" to reside in a Moslem country. There is no
mandatory conversion required but Infidels must pay a tax.

Buddhists - Nothing in the Buddhist writings, that I have read or are
aware of, requires an adherent to the religion to convert anyone. In
fact there is a early Buddhist sutra that discusses "God" in which
the Buddha says that he hasn't discussed god(s) but has given the
student 8 things to concern himself with. (The Jews had 12 :-)

Pagan - I certainly cannot discuss all "pagans" but certainly the
pagans I worked with in Irian Jaya, some of whom may well have been
cannibals, required anyone to convert to their beliefs.

Atheists - I have no idea. I never met anyone who didn't believe in
anything and tried to convert others to his belief.

Hindu - I'll throw this in for free as many Indonesians from Bali are
Hindu and it is one of the authorized religions in Indonesia and the
Hindus that I worked with never seemed to have any desire to convert
me.

Christians - Ah well, I will leave this up to you. Would you care to
comment on how many have been killed, tortured, forcibly converted,
burned or otherwise killed in the name of Christianity? Quora has it
somewhere in the region of 50 - 100 million.

In comparison, the population of England, in 1086, was estimated to
have been 1.25 - 2 million.
--
cheers,

John B.

Ads
  #52  
Old August 4th 19, 06:32 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
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Posts: 9,258
Default Off Topic

On Sunday, August 4, 2019 at 4:31:00 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 7:43:12 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:

And stop hating Americans just because they will be born Americans; that's exactly ground zero for anti-semitism, with American foetuses substituted for Jews. Even Stalin, outside wartime, never killed as many of his own people as the Americans do every year by abortion.

Some people deserve to die. They include abortionists and abortion fanatics, among several classes of violent criminals. They do not include babies in the womb or out of it.


Wow, now you're condoning murder of abortion providers?


Bull****. I want to make an example of them with the full panoply of the law, starting with a grand jury to indite them, television in court, a hardass hanging judge who tells the lawyers they have to take the first jury panel they get, a hungry prosecutor with a pretty sidekick, and did I yet say a hanging judge? A public execution, of course. A dead abortionist is just revenge, a publicly executed abortionist is a lesson in consequences.

≥ Even therapeutic abortion to save the mother? Incest? Abortion of non-viable fetuses?

No, of course there will be exceptions in the law. What the hell is wrong with you, Jay?

Will there be criminal prosecution of women who induce an abortion by over-exercise or misoprostol?


I don't know. Such details are for elected lawmakers to decide. Did you Bar Exam have a civics section?

Go get 'em Ayatollah Andre!


**** you and the horse you rode.

Between writing dime novels,


I'd be delighted to write dime novels but it's an amateur wet dream that we choose our place on the literary spectrum.Mine was chosen decades ago by the quality of my books and the position of my publishers at the head of the literary food chain. It's a Borg situation, futile to resist.

you can exact retribution for all the unborn babies.


I understand there's an element of retribution in justice, but public lawful justice is more productive in the long term. Especially if we can turn it into a spectacle.

Andre Jute
Down with Telemachus!
  #53  
Old August 4th 19, 09:20 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
news18
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Posts: 483
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On Sun, 04 Aug 2019 12:19:20 +0700, John B. wrote:


Pagan - I certainly cannot discuss all "pagans" but certainly the pagans
I worked with in Irian Jaya, some of whom may well have been cannibals,
required anyone to convert to their beliefs.


So they practised both forms of oral conversion?
  #54  
Old August 4th 19, 09:44 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sepp Ruf
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Posts: 263
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John B. wrote:
On Sat, 3 Aug 2019 21:45:06 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/3/2019 8:42 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 3 Aug 2019 20:14:16 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote
On 8/3/2019 6:53 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 3 Aug 2019 12:19:50 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote
On 8/3/2019 11:55 AM, jbeattie wrote:
... even a sensible Democrat is clearly superior to the insane asylum the Left has conjured up out of the fraudulent "oppression" of tiny minorities, who together cannot account for rolling a single log...

Agreed. And I think lots of people agree.

Murder is definitional -- and if it is licensed, it is not murder. Whether one can murder a fetus in the US varies from state to state. The religious and historical prohibition on murder was to maintain social peace and order. The Fifth Commandment did not apply to a fetus, at least not absolutely and not according to the Jews -- whose God god wrote the rule (although the original was lost for many years until found by Stephen Spielberg.) Regrettably, Catholics and conservative Christians have pushed for prohibition as an article of faith and without regard to what becomes of the fetus once born, and in fact Christian conservatives bemoan the "welfare state."

I disagree with that final sentence. At least around here, there are
many church-based institutions that care for women and children, and
there are ongoing congregational charity drives for them. We contribute.

I'm not "into" women's rights but can the death of a fetus that would
not survive if removed from the mother logically be termed "murder"?

And conversely, babies born after 24 weeks are now regularly saved. But
others are aborted after 24 weeks. Granted, it's not common - but what
should it be called?

I don't know and my thoughts were aimed at early abortion before the
fetus is capable of survival outside the mother. And those who cry
that any abortion is murder.

What should it be called? I don't know and frankly I don't care as my
attitude is that I will do as good as I can do and what you do is up
to you. The uniquely Christian concept that one should run about and
force their neighbors to conform to "their" belief is totally foreign
to me.


Wow. I'm amazed you can call that "uniquely Christian." You must have no
knowledge at all about muslims, , various pagans, etc.


Actually I do as at various times, in my military career I was
assigned to places where there wasn't much reading material so I read
various religious books and at other times I was living or working in
a country that wasn't predominately Christian and felt it useful to
know what "they" were doing.

Moslem -the Holy Koran, i.e.," The Word of God", sets forth the
parameters for "infidels" to reside in a Moslem country. There is no
mandatory conversion required but Infidels must pay a tax.


Conspicuously leaving out the messy part of killing any infidel opposed to
becoming "a Moslem country." At least read Chapter 5, Frank:

https://www.politicalislam.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/PDF-Look-Inside/Sharia_Non-Muslim_look_inside.pdf
  #55  
Old August 4th 19, 10:43 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 824
Default Off Topic

On Sun, 4 Aug 2019 10:44:49 +0200, Sepp Ruf
wrote:

John B. wrote:
On Sat, 3 Aug 2019 21:45:06 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/3/2019 8:42 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 3 Aug 2019 20:14:16 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote
On 8/3/2019 6:53 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 3 Aug 2019 12:19:50 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote
On 8/3/2019 11:55 AM, jbeattie wrote:
... even a sensible Democrat is clearly superior to the insane asylum the Left has conjured up out of the fraudulent "oppression" of tiny minorities, who together cannot account for rolling a single log...

Agreed. And I think lots of people agree.

Murder is definitional -- and if it is licensed, it is not murder. Whether one can murder a fetus in the US varies from state to state. The religious and historical prohibition on murder was to maintain social peace and order. The Fifth Commandment did not apply to a fetus, at least not absolutely and not according to the Jews -- whose God god wrote the rule (although the original was lost for many years until found by Stephen Spielberg.) Regrettably, Catholics and conservative Christians have pushed for prohibition as an article of faith and without regard to what becomes of the fetus once born, and in fact Christian conservatives bemoan the "welfare state."

I disagree with that final sentence. At least around here, there are
many church-based institutions that care for women and children, and
there are ongoing congregational charity drives for them. We contribute.

I'm not "into" women's rights but can the death of a fetus that would
not survive if removed from the mother logically be termed "murder"?

And conversely, babies born after 24 weeks are now regularly saved. But
others are aborted after 24 weeks. Granted, it's not common - but what
should it be called?

I don't know and my thoughts were aimed at early abortion before the
fetus is capable of survival outside the mother. And those who cry
that any abortion is murder.

What should it be called? I don't know and frankly I don't care as my
attitude is that I will do as good as I can do and what you do is up
to you. The uniquely Christian concept that one should run about and
force their neighbors to conform to "their" belief is totally foreign
to me.

Wow. I'm amazed you can call that "uniquely Christian." You must have no
knowledge at all about muslims, , various pagans, etc.


Actually I do as at various times, in my military career I was
assigned to places where there wasn't much reading material so I read
various religious books and at other times I was living or working in
a country that wasn't predominately Christian and felt it useful to
know what "they" were doing.

Moslem -the Holy Koran, i.e.," The Word of God", sets forth the
parameters for "infidels" to reside in a Moslem country. There is no
mandatory conversion required but Infidels must pay a tax.


Conspicuously leaving out the messy part of killing any infidel opposed to
becoming "a Moslem country." At least read Chapter 5, Frank:

https://www.politicalislam.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/PDF-Look-Inside/Sharia_Non-Muslim_look_inside.pdf


Ah but the Holy Koran is quite explicit that infidels may reside in
the kingdom, and pay a tax. And Shara quite specifically states that
none Moslems residing under Islamic rule had the status of dhimmi,
which entailed a number of protections, restrictions, freedoms and
legal inequalities, including payment of the jizya tax


--
cheers,

John B.

  #56  
Old August 4th 19, 03:11 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,174
Default Off Topic

On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 10:32:37 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Sunday, August 4, 2019 at 4:31:00 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 7:43:12 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:

And stop hating Americans just because they will be born Americans; that's exactly ground zero for anti-semitism, with American foetuses substituted for Jews. Even Stalin, outside wartime, never killed as many of his own people as the Americans do every year by abortion.

Some people deserve to die. They include abortionists and abortion fanatics, among several classes of violent criminals. They do not include babies in the womb or out of it.


Wow, now you're condoning murder of abortion providers?


Bull****. I want to make an example of them with the full panoply of the law, starting with a grand jury to indite them, television in court, a hardass hanging judge who tells the lawyers they have to take the first jury panel they get, a hungry prosecutor with a pretty sidekick, and did I yet say a hanging judge? A public execution, of course. A dead abortionist is just revenge, a publicly executed abortionist is a lesson in consequences.

≥ Even therapeutic abortion to save the mother? Incest? Abortion of non-viable fetuses?

No, of course there will be exceptions in the law. What the hell is wrong with you, Jay?

Will there be criminal prosecution of women who induce an abortion by over-exercise or misoprostol?


I don't know. Such details are for elected lawmakers to decide. Did you Bar Exam have a civics section?

Go get 'em Ayatollah Andre!


**** you and the horse you rode.

Between writing dime novels,


I'd be delighted to write dime novels but it's an amateur wet dream that we choose our place on the literary spectrum.Mine was chosen decades ago by the quality of my books and the position of my publishers at the head of the literary food chain. It's a Borg situation, futile to resist.

you can exact retribution for all the unborn babies.


I understand there's an element of retribution in justice, but public lawful justice is more productive in the long term. Especially if we can turn it into a spectacle.


I'm kind of guessing here, Andre, but I suspect that "Cold War, Hot Passion" does not put you or your publisher(s) at the head of the literary food chain. Maybe "Sinkhole" or "Stieg Larssen, Man, Myth & Mistress," but I don't know. I haven't read either, but as for the latter book, I do like the cover art with the dragon tattooed butt-cheeks (must have been painful sitting after that tattoo session). http://coolmainpress.com/andrejute.html BTW, the dragon tattoo was not on Lisbeth's butt -- as far as I know, but maybe the cover picture is a reference to some other dragon tattoo.

-- Jay Beattie.
  #57  
Old August 4th 19, 03:46 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,696
Default Off Topic

On 8/4/2019 9:11 AM, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 10:32:37 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Sunday, August 4, 2019 at 4:31:00 AM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, August 3, 2019 at 7:43:12 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:

And stop hating Americans just because they will be born Americans; that's exactly ground zero for anti-semitism, with American foetuses substituted for Jews. Even Stalin, outside wartime, never killed as many of his own people as the Americans do every year by abortion.

Some people deserve to die. They include abortionists and abortion fanatics, among several classes of violent criminals. They do not include babies in the womb or out of it.

Wow, now you're condoning murder of abortion providers?


Bull****. I want to make an example of them with the full panoply of the law, starting with a grand jury to indite them, television in court, a hardass hanging judge who tells the lawyers they have to take the first jury panel they get, a hungry prosecutor with a pretty sidekick, and did I yet say a hanging judge? A public execution, of course. A dead abortionist is just revenge, a publicly executed abortionist is a lesson in consequences.

≥ Even therapeutic abortion to save the mother? Incest? Abortion of non-viable fetuses?

No, of course there will be exceptions in the law. What the hell is wrong with you, Jay?

Will there be criminal prosecution of women who induce an abortion by over-exercise or misoprostol?


I don't know. Such details are for elected lawmakers to decide. Did you Bar Exam have a civics section?

Go get 'em Ayatollah Andre!


**** you and the horse you rode.

Between writing dime novels,


I'd be delighted to write dime novels but it's an amateur wet dream that we choose our place on the literary spectrum.Mine was chosen decades ago by the quality of my books and the position of my publishers at the head of the literary food chain. It's a Borg situation, futile to resist.

you can exact retribution for all the unborn babies.


I understand there's an element of retribution in justice, but public lawful justice is more productive in the long term. Especially if we can turn it into a spectacle.


I'm kind of guessing here, Andre, but I suspect that "Cold War, Hot Passion" does not put you or your publisher(s) at the head of the literary food chain. Maybe "Sinkhole" or "Stieg Larssen, Man, Myth & Mistress," but I don't know. I haven't read either, but as for the latter book, I do like the cover art with the dragon tattooed butt-cheeks (must have been painful sitting after that tattoo session). http://coolmainpress.com/andrejute.html BTW, the dragon tattoo was not on Lisbeth's butt -- as far as I know, but maybe the cover picture is a reference to some other dragon tattoo.

-- Jay Beattie.


I have no idea about those works but authors of my
acquaintance roll their eyes when asked about cover art
selected and produced by their publishers.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #58  
Old August 4th 19, 03:49 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,592
Default Off Topic

On 8/3/2019 11:30 PM, jbeattie wrote:


Wow, now you're condoning murder of abortion providers? Even therapeutic abortion to save the mother? Incest? Abortion of non-viable fetuses?


FWIW, I'm not condoning murder of anyone. But the "therapeutic abortion
to save the mother" thing, and the incest and rape excuses, apply to
only a tiny proportion of abortions. Generally speaking, they're a red
herring.

The vast majority of abortions are for simple birth control. In other
words, those having sex aren't responsible enough to think ahead, or
competently use birth control. Perhaps they don't want to interrupt
their pleasure for a moment.

When their gamble goes wrong, they kill the baby before it's born. It's
simple - and a bit barbaric.

--
- Frank Krygowski
  #59  
Old August 4th 19, 03:55 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,592
Default Off Topic

On 8/4/2019 4:44 AM, Sepp Ruf wrote:
John B. wrote:
On Sat, 3 Aug 2019 21:45:06 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/3/2019 8:42 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 3 Aug 2019 20:14:16 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote
On 8/3/2019 6:53 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 3 Aug 2019 12:19:50 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote
On 8/3/2019 11:55 AM, jbeattie wrote:
... even a sensible Democrat is clearly superior to the insane asylum the Left has conjured up out of the fraudulent "oppression" of tiny minorities, who together cannot account for rolling a single log...

Agreed. And I think lots of people agree.

Murder is definitional -- and if it is licensed, it is not murder. Whether one can murder a fetus in the US varies from state to state. The religious and historical prohibition on murder was to maintain social peace and order. The Fifth Commandment did not apply to a fetus, at least not absolutely and not according to the Jews -- whose God god wrote the rule (although the original was lost for many years until found by Stephen Spielberg.) Regrettably, Catholics and conservative Christians have pushed for prohibition as an article of faith and without regard to what becomes of the fetus once born, and in fact Christian conservatives bemoan the "welfare state."

I disagree with that final sentence. At least around here, there are
many church-based institutions that care for women and children, and
there are ongoing congregational charity drives for them. We contribute.

I'm not "into" women's rights but can the death of a fetus that would
not survive if removed from the mother logically be termed "murder"?

And conversely, babies born after 24 weeks are now regularly saved. But
others are aborted after 24 weeks. Granted, it's not common - but what
should it be called?

I don't know and my thoughts were aimed at early abortion before the
fetus is capable of survival outside the mother. And those who cry
that any abortion is murder.

What should it be called? I don't know and frankly I don't care as my
attitude is that I will do as good as I can do and what you do is up
to you. The uniquely Christian concept that one should run about and
force their neighbors to conform to "their" belief is totally foreign
to me.

Wow. I'm amazed you can call that "uniquely Christian." You must have no
knowledge at all about muslims, , various pagans, etc.


Actually I do as at various times, in my military career I was
assigned to places where there wasn't much reading material so I read
various religious books and at other times I was living or working in
a country that wasn't predominately Christian and felt it useful to
know what "they" were doing.

Moslem -the Holy Koran, i.e.," The Word of God", sets forth the
parameters for "infidels" to reside in a Moslem country. There is no
mandatory conversion required but Infidels must pay a tax.


Conspicuously leaving out the messy part of killing any infidel opposed to
becoming "a Moslem country." At least read Chapter 5, Frank:

https://www.politicalislam.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/PDF-Look-Inside/Sharia_Non-Muslim_look_inside.pdf


I think you meant that for John. I already knew that, and it's part of
my argument.


--
- Frank Krygowski
  #60  
Old August 4th 19, 04:02 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 7,592
Default Off Topic

On 8/4/2019 1:19 AM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 3 Aug 2019 21:45:06 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 8/3/2019 8:42 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 3 Aug 2019 20:14:16 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 8/3/2019 6:53 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 3 Aug 2019 12:19:50 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 8/3/2019 11:55 AM, jbeattie wrote:
... even a sensible Democrat is clearly superior to the insane asylum the Left has conjured up out of the fraudulent "oppression" of tiny minorities, who together cannot account for rolling a single log...

Agreed. And I think lots of people agree.

Murder is definitional -- and if it is licensed, it is not murder. Whether one can murder a fetus in the US varies from state to state. The religious and historical prohibition on murder was to maintain social peace and order. The Fifth Commandment did not apply to a fetus, at least not absolutely and not according to the Jews -- whose God god wrote the rule (although the original was lost for many years until found by Stephen Spielberg.) Regrettably, Catholics and conservative Christians have pushed for prohibition as an article of faith and without regard to what becomes of the fetus once born, and in fact Christian conservatives bemoan the "welfare state."

I disagree with that final sentence. At least around here, there are
many church-based institutions that care for women and children, and
there are ongoing congregational charity drives for them. We contribute.

I'm not "into" women's rights but can the death of a fetus that would
not survive if removed from the mother logically be termed "murder"?

And conversely, babies born after 24 weeks are now regularly saved. But
others are aborted after 24 weeks. Granted, it's not common - but what
should it be called?

I don't know and my thoughts were aimed at early abortion before the
fetus is capable of survival outside the mother. And those who cry
that any abortion is murder.

What should it be called? I don't know and frankly I don't care as my
attitude is that I will do as good as I can do and what you do is up
to you. The uniquely Christian concept that one should run about and
force their neighbors to conform to "their" belief is totally foreign
to me.


Wow. I'm amazed you can call that "uniquely Christian." You must have no
knowledge at all about muslims, , various pagans, etc.


Actually I do as at various times, in my military career I was
assigned to places where there wasn't much reading material so I read
various religious books and at other times I was living or working in
a country that wasn't predominately Christian and felt it useful to
know what "they" were doing.

Moslem -the Holy Koran, i.e.," The Word of God", sets forth the
parameters for "infidels" to reside in a Moslem country. There is no
mandatory conversion required but Infidels must pay a tax.

Buddhists - Nothing in the Buddhist writings, that I have read or are
aware of, requires an adherent to the religion to convert anyone. In
fact there is a early Buddhist sutra that discusses "God" in which
the Buddha says that he hasn't discussed god(s) but has given the
student 8 things to concern himself with. (The Jews had 12 :-)

Pagan - I certainly cannot discuss all "pagans" but certainly the
pagans I worked with in Irian Jaya, some of whom may well have been
cannibals, required anyone to convert to their beliefs.

Atheists - I have no idea. I never met anyone who didn't believe in
anything and tried to convert others to his belief.

Hindu - I'll throw this in for free as many Indonesians from Bali are
Hindu and it is one of the authorized religions in Indonesia and the
Hindus that I worked with never seemed to have any desire to convert
me.

Christians - Ah well, I will leave this up to you. Would you care to
comment on how many have been killed, tortured, forcibly converted,
burned or otherwise killed in the name of Christianity? Quora has it
somewhere in the region of 50 - 100 million.

In comparison, the population of England, in 1086, was estimated to
have been 1.25 - 2 million.


John, read up on the mechanism by which the muslim faith was initially
spread. They used a very different technique than, say, the Mormons.
Read up on the history of atheistic communism and its treatment of
religious people of many types. Read up on hindu treatment of buddhists.
Read up ...

Oh, you get the idea.

--
- Frank Krygowski
 




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