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  #51  
Old August 12th 19, 06:52 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,259
Default Andrew

On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 2:03:05 AM UTC+1, James wrote:
On 12/8/19 3:03 am, Tom Kunich wrote:


I gave you the numbers - mutations would have to occur thousands per second. And yet since the time of Darwin not a single new species has arisen.


As we are still finding "new species" at an alarming rate, I'm not sure
anyone can proclaim what you just did.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/scien...pecies-748819/

--
JS


Pft! I've seen kipunji when I walked up some bloody mountain in East Africa with the college mountain club because I wanted to get into the pants of a keen lady mountaineer. (Waste of effort. She turned out to be a closeted lesbian.) That was like 2000m from college, in relative civilisation, so if I saw them, so did plenty of other people. The local tour guides must earn a living, so good for them for telling these taxonomists or environmentalists or whatever they are about this "new" monkey. It's not the monkey that is new -- that's only the self-referential arrogance of these people; it is the formal classification that is new.

I've never believed this nonsense about a species a minute or whatever dying. It's a lie by the control freaks who want to limit your life, in favour of animals -- and of course their own aggrandisement as morally superior to everyone else. Even if it is true, it has always happened; that's the unstoppable force of evolution. There are millions of species of insects not yet classified, and nobody actually knows how many species of deep ocean fish and other bottom-feeders, or for that matter land animals. Down the road here from me is a colony of 50 or so breeding redleg finches, whereas we were told that if a golf club on their previous breeding ground went ahead, the last couple of pairs of breeding redlags would go extinct. When some of my hillwalking chums were campaigning against development of a swamp behind the police station, I cynically pointed them to "near-extinct newts and shrews who would be made homeless". The shopping centre was built (and contains some excellent chain stores) and the newts and shrews moved next door, further away from the swans and ducks on the river who were driving their numbers down, and are thriving. Among my pets I have a fox family, a hedgehog family, both supposedly extinct in these parts, and I personally brought a female heron that I caught in the estuary back up river, held her wings and head while I looked deep into her eyes (what my family calls "the Rexie stare" after a spaniel who used to dig up my lawn until I caught him and communicated with him, and his owner sued me for "reducing a prize dog's breeding potential to nil") and said, "Below these salmon stairs is a rich, rich, rich feeding ground. You'll thank me for bringing you here," the last a reference to the fact that she hadn't liked being transported in the rack bag on my bike. She has bred so much that now we have at least one heron on every little tributary of the river that I cycle past.* When recently the river was dredged and a new weir built, I fed her great-great^x-daughter (sic) daily on my living room patio. Bottom photo, taken about twenty years ago, is of the founding matriarch herself, every evening at dusk landing on a tree outside my study window on the way to her overnight nest, to thank me for bringing her:
http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/...DVENTURES.html

Andre Jute
Countryman. Conservationist.

* One day I waited on my bike on the footbridge over the river for a photographer with his back to me to finish photographing five young herons flying loop de loop inches in front of the monstrously thick and long lens he was pointing freehand at them. I said helpfully to his back, "Sir, you need to put a tripod under that heavy lens or at such close range you'll shoot nothing but a blur." He took another sequence of shots, then turned to me. It was Richard Mills, a distinguished, multi-awarded photographer who, obviously, doesn't have shaking hands. He said, "Ah, I thought it would be you, Andre." Here's a book by a sometime editor of mine with Richard's photographs: http://www.obrien.ie/west-cork-a-place-apart
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  #52  
Old August 12th 19, 06:55 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,259
Default Andrew

On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 12:58:26 AM UTC+1, news18 wrote:
On Sun, 11 Aug 2019 10:09:24 -0700, Tom Kunich wrote:

That gives me the distinct impression that you've never worked in
science nor even around scientists.

So exactly what were your scientists doing in their "science" work.


What makes you think Tom has to answer a troll like you?

Sneering and jeering doesn't make your dick grow, sonny, it just turns you into a no-count fool in everyone's eyes.

Andre Jute
If you can't manage amusing snark, please try at least to make it intelligent
  #53  
Old August 12th 19, 07:21 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 761
Default Andrew

On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 1:48:11 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 7:10:27 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:


I'm out of this discussion.

Lou


You were never IN this discussion.


You are right.


What you do not know is that this is not a black or white discussion. I am an agnostic - that means that I am open to ANY explanation and as of this moment Creation appears to be the only sensible answer. Other than stupid phrases like "having to believe in a higher power" do you have the slightest intelligent thing to say?
  #54  
Old August 12th 19, 07:27 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 761
Default Andrew

On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 4:58:26 PM UTC-7, news18 wrote:
On Sun, 11 Aug 2019 10:09:24 -0700, Tom Kunich wrote:

That gives me the distinct impression that you've never worked in
science nor even around scientists.

So exactly what were your scientists doing in their "science" work.


As of this moment physicists are attempting to prove or disprove several lines of thought of quantum mechanics most of which are so unlikely that they make Creation sound absolute a given.

We have childish claims mostly not by scientists but moronic "journalists" that there COULD be life on other planets. The math on THIS is also flawed to the point where impossibility seems to be the actual result.

Darwin's theory is so unlikely given the mathematics behind it (which was known AT THE TIME OF DARWIN) that one has to wonder what would ever have brought anyone to even give it a second thought.

Being able to answer why the sky is blue is not in the least answering why the mechanics happen to operate in that manner.
  #55  
Old August 12th 19, 07:29 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 761
Default Andrew

On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 5:01:28 PM UTC-7, news18 wrote:
On Sun, 11 Aug 2019 10:03:31 -0700, Tom Kunich wrote:



I gave you the numbers - mutations would have to occur thousands per
second. And yet since the time of Darwin not a single new species has
arisen.


But we are doing out best by flooding the world with radiation and toxic
chemicals. Good work takes time. BTW, they have actually identified
1,000s of new species since Darwin first wrtote.
It takes time Or you can agree with others that the minute change in an
insect


What in the hell does identifying unknown species have to do with new species being brought into existence due to the Theory of Evolution? Not ONE of these species hasn't been in existence during the entire time of the records.
  #56  
Old August 12th 19, 07:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 761
Default Andrew

On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 6:03:05 PM UTC-7, James wrote:
On 12/8/19 3:03 am, Tom Kunich wrote:


I gave you the numbers - mutations would have to occur thousands per second. And yet since the time of Darwin not a single new species has arisen.


As we are still finding "new species" at an alarming rate, I'm not sure
anyone can proclaim what you just did.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/scien...pecies-748819/

--
JS


The trouble is that when you know the environment in which a "new" species is discovered you know where to look for historic records such as fossils would be found and there they are.
  #57  
Old August 12th 19, 07:35 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Kunich[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 761
Default Andrew

On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 9:47:25 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 2:58:53 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/10/2019 10:39 PM, news18 wrote:
On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 14:55:26 -0700, Andre Jute wrote:

On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 8:08:11 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 9:45:45 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 9:01:33 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 4:16:53 PM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 7:21:12 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute
wrote:
On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 3:41:31 AM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/9/2019 9:21 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 1:23:24 AM UTC+1, AMuzi
wrote:
On 8/9/2019 6:10 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
Andre Jute Economics isn't difficult: it is the
commonsense activities of individuals considered in
aggregate.


???

If the query is about the tagline to my sig, many
economists with real life experience in business are
moving away from the first two great commandments of
classical economics, viz that all individuals in every
market are fully informed and fully rational in every
decision. That is clearly not so. We don't need to go
further afield than RBT for an example.

Of course we don't go as far as Krugman, who is so
Post-Modern, he's totally unmoored from reality, indeed
he's unattached to anything he said yesterday or the day
before, though in a few days he'll probably spout the
same weirdness as he did a couple of weeks ago. In fact,
he's so cyclically insane, we should make him an honorary
member of RBT.

Andre Jute Sane since I was 13. I wonder how I managed
that.


Krugman is indeed unhinged and he was even before Trump
Derangement Syndrome.


I must quibble that although many individual investors are
frequently wrong, and provably so, the wisdom of crowds is
a real thing and an amazingly reliable economic indicator.
Nor infallible, but amazingly prescient usually.

I agree. However, the mob is never right. The trick is to
distinguish the mob from the crowd.



Andre Jute I can't believe the foolishness of historians
who equate the French and American Revolutions. The French
wanted to raise a ravening mob of murderers, the American
Founding Fathers created the Electoral College and other
enduring institutions specifically to defend minorities
against the mob.


No one understood it better than Burke:

https://www.alibris.com/Reflections-...Revolution-in-
France-Edmund-Burke/book/5612177?matches=601

An excellent short read and starting at just 99 cents.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Thanks, Andrew. I know it, and in fact have it (free from
Project Gutenberg) on iBooks to read on my treadmill, but first
I want to read Thomas Carlyle History of the French Revolution
again, to which Burke makes a suitable coda. At the moment I'm
working my way through Stephen Meyers Darwin's Doubt, which may
be the most important book of the century so far, and Carlyle
is next. He's an agreeable stylist and a meticulous historian,
so I won't be rushing the pleasure.


Pffff (blowing out coffee). Darwin's Doubt the most important
book of the century so far?

The only thing more important than where we came from is where
we're going. Any ideas?

Yikes, an ID book?

Have you actually read it? I haven't finished it but I'm far enough
to know that his dissection of all the other theories is
fair-minded and persausive.

No, I've only read the reviews -- and I will admit my prejudices,
which a (1) whenever I finish a book that involves religion or
philosophy chasing science, or vice versa, I feel like I've wasted my
time. The book may illuminate some current controversy, but that
controversy is usually gone in ten years or has mutated like a virus
into a different controversy. It started out as creationism, mutated
into intelligent design and will be something different in five years
-- maybe go back to ancient astronauts or the Illuminati. Meanwhile,
the actual scientific community plods along with evolution. One hopes
for primary work that really proves something rather than a curated,
retrospective review of prior research with a new gloss. (2) I'm not
against God or intelligent design, but really, if you were an
all-powerful God, would you create a Trilobite? Why not a dog or a
Swedish bikini model. The God envisioned by these people is so lame.

-- Jay Beattie.

Jay, I don't think that you realize the problems with Darwin. While
improvement of the species certainly is possible in the time since
Darwin we have never witnessed speciation due to evolution.

Just the human genome itself would require about several thousand
mutations per second since life first appeared on Earth to have reached
the present point of development. The numbers are simply far too large
for Darwin's theories to ever work on the large scale necessary.

The probabilistic difficulty is worse even than that, Tom. Forget
humans, which are a large, complex afterthought to upright apes which
are already impossible to explain, and let's just stick to the large
animals in the Cambrian Era. It turns out, if you work the numbers, that
protein A seeking protein B will have to do it blindfold in a genetic
space larger than all the atoms in the cosmos, littered with ineffectual
rubbish proteins, and that's just to make one cell. It will take more
than all the time since the Earth was created (about 3.8bn years).

That concept is more akin to the evolution of human knowledge, much of
which can be shown to have independently evolved in different places.
There is no evidence to support that there was ever one protein A seeking
one protein B.


Andre Jute The cutting edge

From the man who thinks that giddens wrote the history of the world.


He actually did. Or at l;east everything worth knowing:

https://www.alibris.com/Gibbons-Decl...438?matches=65

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


And the rest is iteration of history's failures by those who didn't read Gibbon, an awful lesson? Actually the Middle Ages were a time of peace and plenty for most people as the Roman Church spread agricultural best practice through the Christian world, which for a good long time was nearly co-terminous with the Roman Empire, and presumably at least a bit beyond its borders, and there was global warming which also lifted everyone's spirits and standard of living. But that's at least partly a lesson in the power of communication, belonging to economic history, while Gibbon's main theme is arguably one of morality, duty and sacrifice; those old Romans who built the upstanding republic and later the decadent empire were pretty grim, not a giggle* among the lot of them.

In one school vacation I led a blind lawyer around and in the evenings read to him. He was a fast listener, so I read at a fast clip, and finished the libretto of Da Ponte's Don Giovanni in an evening with time to spare before his bedtime, so, after a few valuable tips on my Italian pronunciation (blind people listen better!), he told me I could choose the next volume from his shelf. Not wanting to be obvious and choose my own fave, Shakespeare, I chose Gibbon. "No, no," he said, "that bloody man is a moralist. Choose a realist. Goethe! Let's have Faustus." By the time I'd read aloud through most of Goethe in gloomy German, I was absolutely convinced that the only thing worse than a moralist is a romantic.

Andre Jute
No lace curtains to twitch

*Robert Graves presents Tiberius as amused by his nephew Caligula's viciousness but Tiberius was such a self-centred sourpuss, one has to wonder if this is literary latitude or lasitude on the part of Graves.


That is a strong point. During the time that the Roman Empire was supposedly "conquering the world" they brought peace and prosperity to most of it.
  #58  
Old August 12th 19, 07:52 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,696
Default Andrew

On 8/12/2019 1:35 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 9:47:25 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 2:58:53 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/10/2019 10:39 PM, news18 wrote:
On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 14:55:26 -0700, Andre Jute wrote:

On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 8:08:11 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 9:45:45 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 9:01:33 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 4:16:53 PM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 7:21:12 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute
wrote:
On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 3:41:31 AM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/9/2019 9:21 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 1:23:24 AM UTC+1, AMuzi
wrote:
On 8/9/2019 6:10 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
Andre Jute Economics isn't difficult: it is the
commonsense activities of individuals considered in
aggregate.


???

If the query is about the tagline to my sig, many
economists with real life experience in business are
moving away from the first two great commandments of
classical economics, viz that all individuals in every
market are fully informed and fully rational in every
decision. That is clearly not so. We don't need to go
further afield than RBT for an example.

Of course we don't go as far as Krugman, who is so
Post-Modern, he's totally unmoored from reality, indeed
he's unattached to anything he said yesterday or the day
before, though in a few days he'll probably spout the
same weirdness as he did a couple of weeks ago. In fact,
he's so cyclically insane, we should make him an honorary
member of RBT.

Andre Jute Sane since I was 13. I wonder how I managed
that.


Krugman is indeed unhinged and he was even before Trump
Derangement Syndrome.


I must quibble that although many individual investors are
frequently wrong, and provably so, the wisdom of crowds is
a real thing and an amazingly reliable economic indicator.
Nor infallible, but amazingly prescient usually.

I agree. However, the mob is never right. The trick is to
distinguish the mob from the crowd.



Andre Jute I can't believe the foolishness of historians
who equate the French and American Revolutions. The French
wanted to raise a ravening mob of murderers, the American
Founding Fathers created the Electoral College and other
enduring institutions specifically to defend minorities
against the mob.


No one understood it better than Burke:

https://www.alibris.com/Reflections-...Revolution-in-
France-Edmund-Burke/book/5612177?matches=601

An excellent short read and starting at just 99 cents.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Thanks, Andrew. I know it, and in fact have it (free from
Project Gutenberg) on iBooks to read on my treadmill, but first
I want to read Thomas Carlyle History of the French Revolution
again, to which Burke makes a suitable coda. At the moment I'm
working my way through Stephen Meyers Darwin's Doubt, which may
be the most important book of the century so far, and Carlyle
is next. He's an agreeable stylist and a meticulous historian,
so I won't be rushing the pleasure.


Pffff (blowing out coffee). Darwin's Doubt the most important
book of the century so far?

The only thing more important than where we came from is where
we're going. Any ideas?

Yikes, an ID book?

Have you actually read it? I haven't finished it but I'm far enough
to know that his dissection of all the other theories is
fair-minded and persausive.

No, I've only read the reviews -- and I will admit my prejudices,
which a (1) whenever I finish a book that involves religion or
philosophy chasing science, or vice versa, I feel like I've wasted my
time. The book may illuminate some current controversy, but that
controversy is usually gone in ten years or has mutated like a virus
into a different controversy. It started out as creationism, mutated
into intelligent design and will be something different in five years
-- maybe go back to ancient astronauts or the Illuminati. Meanwhile,
the actual scientific community plods along with evolution. One hopes
for primary work that really proves something rather than a curated,
retrospective review of prior research with a new gloss. (2) I'm not
against God or intelligent design, but really, if you were an
all-powerful God, would you create a Trilobite? Why not a dog or a
Swedish bikini model. The God envisioned by these people is so lame.

-- Jay Beattie.

Jay, I don't think that you realize the problems with Darwin. While
improvement of the species certainly is possible in the time since
Darwin we have never witnessed speciation due to evolution.

Just the human genome itself would require about several thousand
mutations per second since life first appeared on Earth to have reached
the present point of development. The numbers are simply far too large
for Darwin's theories to ever work on the large scale necessary.

The probabilistic difficulty is worse even than that, Tom. Forget
humans, which are a large, complex afterthought to upright apes which
are already impossible to explain, and let's just stick to the large
animals in the Cambrian Era. It turns out, if you work the numbers, that
protein A seeking protein B will have to do it blindfold in a genetic
space larger than all the atoms in the cosmos, littered with ineffectual
rubbish proteins, and that's just to make one cell. It will take more
than all the time since the Earth was created (about 3.8bn years).

That concept is more akin to the evolution of human knowledge, much of
which can be shown to have independently evolved in different places.
There is no evidence to support that there was ever one protein A seeking
one protein B.


Andre Jute The cutting edge

From the man who thinks that giddens wrote the history of the world.


He actually did. Or at l;east everything worth knowing:

https://www.alibris.com/Gibbons-Decl...438?matches=65

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


And the rest is iteration of history's failures by those who didn't read Gibbon, an awful lesson? Actually the Middle Ages were a time of peace and plenty for most people as the Roman Church spread agricultural best practice through the Christian world, which for a good long time was nearly co-terminous with the Roman Empire, and presumably at least a bit beyond its borders, and there was global warming which also lifted everyone's spirits and standard of living. But that's at least partly a lesson in the power of communication, belonging to economic history, while Gibbon's main theme is arguably one of morality, duty and sacrifice; those old Romans who built the upstanding republic and later the decadent empire were pretty grim, not a giggle* among the lot of them.

In one school vacation I led a blind lawyer around and in the evenings read to him. He was a fast listener, so I read at a fast clip, and finished the libretto of Da Ponte's Don Giovanni in an evening with time to spare before his bedtime, so, after a few valuable tips on my Italian pronunciation (blind people listen better!), he told me I could choose the next volume from his shelf. Not wanting to be obvious and choose my own fave, Shakespeare, I chose Gibbon. "No, no," he said, "that bloody man is a moralist. Choose a realist. Goethe! Let's have Faustus." By the time I'd read aloud through most of Goethe in gloomy German, I was absolutely convinced that the only thing worse than a moralist is a romantic.

Andre Jute
No lace curtains to twitch

*Robert Graves presents Tiberius as amused by his nephew Caligula's viciousness but Tiberius was such a self-centred sourpuss, one has to wonder if this is literary latitude or lasitude on the part of Graves.


That is a strong point. During the time that the Roman Empire was supposedly "conquering the world" they brought peace and prosperity to most of it.


At least Carthage was peaceful after Scipio improved it.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #59  
Old August 12th 19, 11:21 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 826
Default Andrew

On Mon, 12 Aug 2019 13:52:27 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 8/12/2019 1:35 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 9:47:25 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 2:58:53 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/10/2019 10:39 PM, news18 wrote:
On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 14:55:26 -0700, Andre Jute wrote:

On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 8:08:11 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 9:45:45 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 9:01:33 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 4:16:53 PM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 7:21:12 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute
wrote:
On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 3:41:31 AM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/9/2019 9:21 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 1:23:24 AM UTC+1, AMuzi
wrote:
On 8/9/2019 6:10 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
Andre Jute Economics isn't difficult: it is the
commonsense activities of individuals considered in
aggregate.


???

If the query is about the tagline to my sig, many
economists with real life experience in business are
moving away from the first two great commandments of
classical economics, viz that all individuals in every
market are fully informed and fully rational in every
decision. That is clearly not so. We don't need to go
further afield than RBT for an example.

Of course we don't go as far as Krugman, who is so
Post-Modern, he's totally unmoored from reality, indeed
he's unattached to anything he said yesterday or the day
before, though in a few days he'll probably spout the
same weirdness as he did a couple of weeks ago. In fact,
he's so cyclically insane, we should make him an honorary
member of RBT.

Andre Jute Sane since I was 13. I wonder how I managed
that.


Krugman is indeed unhinged and he was even before Trump
Derangement Syndrome.


I must quibble that although many individual investors are
frequently wrong, and provably so, the wisdom of crowds is
a real thing and an amazingly reliable economic indicator.
Nor infallible, but amazingly prescient usually.

I agree. However, the mob is never right. The trick is to
distinguish the mob from the crowd.



Andre Jute I can't believe the foolishness of historians
who equate the French and American Revolutions. The French
wanted to raise a ravening mob of murderers, the American
Founding Fathers created the Electoral College and other
enduring institutions specifically to defend minorities
against the mob.


No one understood it better than Burke:

https://www.alibris.com/Reflections-...Revolution-in-
France-Edmund-Burke/book/5612177?matches=601

An excellent short read and starting at just 99 cents.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Thanks, Andrew. I know it, and in fact have it (free from
Project Gutenberg) on iBooks to read on my treadmill, but first
I want to read Thomas Carlyle History of the French Revolution
again, to which Burke makes a suitable coda. At the moment I'm
working my way through Stephen Meyers Darwin's Doubt, which may
be the most important book of the century so far, and Carlyle
is next. He's an agreeable stylist and a meticulous historian,
so I won't be rushing the pleasure.


Pffff (blowing out coffee). Darwin's Doubt the most important
book of the century so far?

The only thing more important than where we came from is where
we're going. Any ideas?

Yikes, an ID book?

Have you actually read it? I haven't finished it but I'm far enough
to know that his dissection of all the other theories is
fair-minded and persausive.

No, I've only read the reviews -- and I will admit my prejudices,
which a (1) whenever I finish a book that involves religion or
philosophy chasing science, or vice versa, I feel like I've wasted my
time. The book may illuminate some current controversy, but that
controversy is usually gone in ten years or has mutated like a virus
into a different controversy. It started out as creationism, mutated
into intelligent design and will be something different in five years
-- maybe go back to ancient astronauts or the Illuminati. Meanwhile,
the actual scientific community plods along with evolution. One hopes
for primary work that really proves something rather than a curated,
retrospective review of prior research with a new gloss. (2) I'm not
against God or intelligent design, but really, if you were an
all-powerful God, would you create a Trilobite? Why not a dog or a
Swedish bikini model. The God envisioned by these people is so lame.

-- Jay Beattie.

Jay, I don't think that you realize the problems with Darwin. While
improvement of the species certainly is possible in the time since
Darwin we have never witnessed speciation due to evolution.

Just the human genome itself would require about several thousand
mutations per second since life first appeared on Earth to have reached
the present point of development. The numbers are simply far too large
for Darwin's theories to ever work on the large scale necessary.

The probabilistic difficulty is worse even than that, Tom. Forget
humans, which are a large, complex afterthought to upright apes which
are already impossible to explain, and let's just stick to the large
animals in the Cambrian Era. It turns out, if you work the numbers, that
protein A seeking protein B will have to do it blindfold in a genetic
space larger than all the atoms in the cosmos, littered with ineffectual
rubbish proteins, and that's just to make one cell. It will take more
than all the time since the Earth was created (about 3.8bn years).

That concept is more akin to the evolution of human knowledge, much of
which can be shown to have independently evolved in different places.
There is no evidence to support that there was ever one protein A seeking
one protein B.


Andre Jute The cutting edge

From the man who thinks that giddens wrote the history of the world.


He actually did. Or at l;east everything worth knowing:

https://www.alibris.com/Gibbons-Decl...438?matches=65

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

And the rest is iteration of history's failures by those who didn't read Gibbon, an awful lesson? Actually the Middle Ages were a time of peace and plenty for most people as the Roman Church spread agricultural best practice through the Christian world, which for a good long time was nearly co-terminous with the Roman Empire, and presumably at least a bit beyond its borders, and there was global warming which also lifted everyone's spirits and standard of living. But that's at least partly a lesson in the power of communication, belonging to economic history, while Gibbon's main theme is arguably one of morality, duty and sacrifice; those old Romans who built the upstanding republic and later the decadent empire were pretty grim, not a giggle* among the lot of them.

In one school vacation I led a blind lawyer around and in the evenings read to him. He was a fast listener, so I read at a fast clip, and finished the libretto of Da Ponte's Don Giovanni in an evening with time to spare before his bedtime, so, after a few valuable tips on my Italian pronunciation (blind people listen better!), he told me I could choose the next volume from his shelf. Not wanting to be obvious and choose my own fave, Shakespeare, I chose Gibbon. "No, no," he said, "that bloody man is a moralist. Choose a realist. Goethe! Let's have Faustus." By the time I'd read aloud through most of Goethe in gloomy German, I was absolutely convinced that the only thing worse than a moralist is a romantic.

Andre Jute
No lace curtains to twitch

*Robert Graves presents Tiberius as amused by his nephew Caligula's viciousness but Tiberius was such a self-centred sourpuss, one has to wonder if this is literary latitude or lasitude on the part of Graves.


That is a strong point. During the time that the Roman Empire was supposedly "conquering the world" they brought peace and prosperity to most of it.


At least Carthage was peaceful after Scipio improved it.


True, and apparently a perfect solution to having to mow the grass
every Sunday .
--
cheers,

John B.

  #60  
Old August 12th 19, 11:57 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,259
Default Andrew

On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 7:52:27 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/12/2019 1:35 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, August 12, 2019 at 9:47:25 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Sunday, August 11, 2019 at 2:58:53 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/10/2019 10:39 PM, news18 wrote:
On Sat, 10 Aug 2019 14:55:26 -0700, Andre Jute wrote:

On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 8:08:11 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 9:45:45 AM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 9:01:33 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote:
On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 4:16:53 PM UTC+1, jbeattie wrote:
On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 7:21:12 AM UTC-7, Andre Jute
wrote:
On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 3:41:31 AM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/9/2019 9:21 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
On Saturday, August 10, 2019 at 1:23:24 AM UTC+1, AMuzi
wrote:
On 8/9/2019 6:10 PM, Andre Jute wrote:
Andre Jute Economics isn't difficult: it is the
commonsense activities of individuals considered in
aggregate.


???

If the query is about the tagline to my sig, many
economists with real life experience in business are
moving away from the first two great commandments of
classical economics, viz that all individuals in every
market are fully informed and fully rational in every
decision. That is clearly not so. We don't need to go
further afield than RBT for an example.

Of course we don't go as far as Krugman, who is so
Post-Modern, he's totally unmoored from reality, indeed
he's unattached to anything he said yesterday or the day
before, though in a few days he'll probably spout the
same weirdness as he did a couple of weeks ago. In fact,
he's so cyclically insane, we should make him an honorary
member of RBT.

Andre Jute Sane since I was 13. I wonder how I managed
that.


Krugman is indeed unhinged and he was even before Trump
Derangement Syndrome.


I must quibble that although many individual investors are
frequently wrong, and provably so, the wisdom of crowds is
a real thing and an amazingly reliable economic indicator.
Nor infallible, but amazingly prescient usually.

I agree. However, the mob is never right. The trick is to
distinguish the mob from the crowd.



Andre Jute I can't believe the foolishness of historians
who equate the French and American Revolutions. The French
wanted to raise a ravening mob of murderers, the American
Founding Fathers created the Electoral College and other
enduring institutions specifically to defend minorities
against the mob.


No one understood it better than Burke:

https://www.alibris.com/Reflections-...Revolution-in-
France-Edmund-Burke/book/5612177?matches=601

An excellent short read and starting at just 99 cents.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Thanks, Andrew. I know it, and in fact have it (free from
Project Gutenberg) on iBooks to read on my treadmill, but first
I want to read Thomas Carlyle History of the French Revolution
again, to which Burke makes a suitable coda. At the moment I'm
working my way through Stephen Meyers Darwin's Doubt, which may
be the most important book of the century so far, and Carlyle
is next. He's an agreeable stylist and a meticulous historian,
so I won't be rushing the pleasure.


Pffff (blowing out coffee). Darwin's Doubt the most important
book of the century so far?

The only thing more important than where we came from is where
we're going. Any ideas?

Yikes, an ID book?

Have you actually read it? I haven't finished it but I'm far enough
to know that his dissection of all the other theories is
fair-minded and persausive.

No, I've only read the reviews -- and I will admit my prejudices,
which a (1) whenever I finish a book that involves religion or
philosophy chasing science, or vice versa, I feel like I've wasted my
time. The book may illuminate some current controversy, but that
controversy is usually gone in ten years or has mutated like a virus
into a different controversy. It started out as creationism, mutated
into intelligent design and will be something different in five years
-- maybe go back to ancient astronauts or the Illuminati. Meanwhile,
the actual scientific community plods along with evolution. One hopes
for primary work that really proves something rather than a curated,
retrospective review of prior research with a new gloss. (2) I'm not
against God or intelligent design, but really, if you were an
all-powerful God, would you create a Trilobite? Why not a dog or a
Swedish bikini model. The God envisioned by these people is so lame.

-- Jay Beattie.

Jay, I don't think that you realize the problems with Darwin. While
improvement of the species certainly is possible in the time since
Darwin we have never witnessed speciation due to evolution.

Just the human genome itself would require about several thousand
mutations per second since life first appeared on Earth to have reached
the present point of development. The numbers are simply far too large
for Darwin's theories to ever work on the large scale necessary.

The probabilistic difficulty is worse even than that, Tom. Forget
humans, which are a large, complex afterthought to upright apes which
are already impossible to explain, and let's just stick to the large
animals in the Cambrian Era. It turns out, if you work the numbers, that
protein A seeking protein B will have to do it blindfold in a genetic
space larger than all the atoms in the cosmos, littered with ineffectual
rubbish proteins, and that's just to make one cell. It will take more
than all the time since the Earth was created (about 3.8bn years).

That concept is more akin to the evolution of human knowledge, much of
which can be shown to have independently evolved in different places..
There is no evidence to support that there was ever one protein A seeking
one protein B.


Andre Jute The cutting edge

From the man who thinks that giddens wrote the history of the world.


He actually did. Or at l;east everything worth knowing:

https://www.alibris.com/Gibbons-Decl...438?matches=65

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

And the rest is iteration of history's failures by those who didn't read Gibbon, an awful lesson? Actually the Middle Ages were a time of peace and plenty for most people as the Roman Church spread agricultural best practice through the Christian world, which for a good long time was nearly co-terminous with the Roman Empire, and presumably at least a bit beyond its borders, and there was global warming which also lifted everyone's spirits and standard of living. But that's at least partly a lesson in the power of communication, belonging to economic history, while Gibbon's main theme is arguably one of morality, duty and sacrifice; those old Romans who built the upstanding republic and later the decadent empire were pretty grim, not a giggle* among the lot of them.

In one school vacation I led a blind lawyer around and in the evenings read to him. He was a fast listener, so I read at a fast clip, and finished the libretto of Da Ponte's Don Giovanni in an evening with time to spare before his bedtime, so, after a few valuable tips on my Italian pronunciation (blind people listen better!), he told me I could choose the next volume from his shelf. Not wanting to be obvious and choose my own fave, Shakespeare, I chose Gibbon. "No, no," he said, "that bloody man is a moralist. Choose a realist. Goethe! Let's have Faustus." By the time I'd read aloud through most of Goethe in gloomy German, I was absolutely convinced that the only thing worse than a moralist is a romantic.

Andre Jute
No lace curtains to twitch

*Robert Graves presents Tiberius as amused by his nephew Caligula's viciousness but Tiberius was such a self-centred sourpuss, one has to wonder if this is literary latitude or lasitude on the part of Graves.


That is a strong point. During the time that the Roman Empire was supposedly "conquering the world" they brought peace and prosperity to most of it.

 




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