Why we should bike w/o a helmet--from the TED conference

On Jan 5, 11:33*pm, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° ""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" wrote:
On 1/5/2011 3:13 PM, James StewarD wrote: Frank Krygowski wrote:

And why do the people posting here who worry about bike head injuries
not worry as much about car head injuries?

I have never been injured in a car accident.

I have been injured multiple times in cycling accidents.

Ask Jay also.

Wow, a sample size of N = 2 ! ! !

Yes, but when you are one of the two, it's a large enough sample. And
I'm not saying bicycling in the generic sense is dangerous -- it is
absolutely safe for Frank and maybe even Tom, except that he might get
beaten to death by an angry mob if he rode that sock-covered recumbent
of his in to the wrong part of town. Riding in the dark on bad roads
in winter conditions carries a certain risk, and that risk may include
preventable head injury. A helmet may be a reasonable preventative
measure. Mine also keeps my head warm. -- Jay Beattie.

On Jan 6, 3:53*am, James wrote:
On Jan 6, 6:33*pm, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° ""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI

$southslope.net" wrote:
On 1/5/2011 3:13 PM, James StewarD wrote: Frank Krygowski wrote:

And why do the people posting here who worry about bike head injuries
not worry as much about car head injuries?

I have never been injured in a car accident.

I have been injured multiple times in cycling accidents.

Ask Jay also.

Wow, a sample size of N = 2 ! ! !

Would you like to find some statistics of people who cycle and drive a
car who have suffered head injuries from either mode of transport?

Come on, James. Plenty of numbers have been given. In the US,
motoring is responsible for the largest number of brain injury
fatalities. For non-fatal brain injuries, motoring is second only to
falls. Bicycling is responsible for less than 2% of the non-fatal
injuries and less than 1% of the fatalities.

If you want Australian data, Robinson, D.L., Head Injuries & Bicycle
Helmet Laws, 1996, Accident Analysis Prevention, vol 28, pp 463 - 475
has some. For example, motorists had 0.17 head injury deaths per
million hours exposure. Bicyclists had 0.19 head injury deaths per
million hours exposure - very nearly equal. And both were way better
than pedestrians, at 0.34, or motorcyclists at 2.9. Yes, motorcycling
is fifteen times worse than cycling.


Personal experience is enough for me to know that cycling is
dangerous, and that for me at least, wearing a helmet is not difficult
nor a discomfort and may improve my chances of survival should I
bounce my scone off a hard surface. *Whether I have 10 cycling
accidents where I only suffer a grazes and bruises and 1 car accident
that kills me remains to be seen.

If a person (say) scratched their head in a bike fall, it's not
surprising they would buy into the propaganda that bike rides produce
lots of really serious head injuries. It's a common psychological
effect. Similarly, there are fewer than 10 snakebite deaths per year
in the U.S., yet a person bitten by even a non-venomous snake is
likely to develop a phobia about death by snakebite.

What's interesting to me is that this doesn't apply to motoring head
injuries. I can quickly think of four friends who died from accidents
while riding in cars or pickup trucks. I know the cause of death of
only one of those, and it was indeed brain injury; but I've read that
the majority of motorist deaths are from brain injury. I've also known
several people to have suffered non-fatal head injuries in car
crashes. Yet none of the acquaintances of the fatalities have adopted
helmets for car rides. Neither have any of those suffering non-fatal
head injuries.

Again: There is no doubt that riding in cars absolutely dominates the
number of serious head injuries in the developed world. But
apparently, car head injuries will never cause people to put on car
helmets. Yet get a scratch in a bike ride, and riding without a
helmet becomes unthinkable for many.

Propaganda works!

- Frank Krygowski

On Jan 6, 10:55*am, SMS wrote:


In any case, it's a ridiculous analogy. A car has a reinforced steel
frame, impact absorbing dash, air bags (including side curtain air
bags), safety glass, plus lap and shoulder belts. Adding a helmet to all
that isn't going to do much. The accidents that are not survivable are
still not going to be survivable.

These folks think otherwise.

http://casr.adelaide.edu.au/developments/headband/

- Frank Krygowski

On Jan 6, 3:53*am, James wrote:


Would you like to find some statistics of people who cycle and drive a
car who have suffered head injuries from either mode of transport?

Oh, here's some Canadian data:

"Who should wear helmets?
Of 2500 Major Head Injuries Annually in Ontario
49% motor vehicle involvement - including pedestrians, excluding
cyclists
35% falls, 6% homicide, 2% suicide, 6% other causes
less than 2% Cycling
(Source: Canadian Institute For Health Information)"

That's from http://www.vehicularcyclist.com/ which has a link to the
CIHI paper with the data.

- Frank Krygowski

On Jan 7, 4:42*am, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Jan 6, 3:53*am, James wrote:



On Jan 6, 6:33*pm, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° ""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI

$southslope.net" wrote:
On 1/5/2011 3:13 PM, James StewarD wrote: Frank Krygowski wrote:

And why do the people posting here who worry about bike head injuries
not worry as much about car head injuries?

I have never been injured in a car accident.

I have been injured multiple times in cycling accidents.

Ask Jay also.

Wow, a sample size of N = 2 ! ! !

Would you like to find some statistics of people who cycle and drive a
car who have suffered head injuries from either mode of transport?

Come on, James. *Plenty of numbers have been given.

Not for people who drive _and_ cycle.

snip

Personal experience is enough for me to know that cycling is
dangerous, and that for me at least, wearing a helmet is not difficult
nor a discomfort and may improve my chances of survival should I
bounce my scone off a hard surface. *Whether I have 10 cycling
accidents where I only suffer a grazes and bruises and 1 car accident
that kills me remains to be seen.

If a person (say) scratched their head in a bike fall, it's not
surprising they would buy into the propaganda that bike rides produce
lots of really serious head injuries.

I have never hit my head in any cycling accident with enough force to
even show a scratch on my helmet. That does not mean I never will,
and when I do I'd rather be wearing a helmet.

snip

JS.

On Jan 7, 4:57*am, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Jan 6, 3:53*am, James wrote:



Would you like to find some statistics of people who cycle and drive a
car who have suffered head injuries from either mode of transport?

Oh, here's some Canadian data:

snip

I'll repeat the question is to "find statistics of people who cycle
and drive a car who have suffered head injuries from either mode of
transport?"

Notice the "and" between cycle _and_ drive?

JS.

On Jan 7, 4:24*am, Jay Beattie wrote:
On Jan 5, 11:33*pm, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° ""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI

$southslope.net" wrote:
On 1/5/2011 3:13 PM, James StewarD wrote: Frank Krygowski wrote:

And why do the people posting here who worry about bike head injuries
not worry as much about car head injuries?

I have never been injured in a car accident.

I have been injured multiple times in cycling accidents.

Ask Jay also.

Wow, a sample size of N = 2 ! ! !

Yes, but when you are one of the two, it's a large enough sample. *And
I'm not saying bicycling in the generic sense is dangerous -- it is
absolutely safe for Frank and maybe even Tom, except that he might get
beaten to death by an angry mob if he rode that sock-covered recumbent
of his in to the wrong part of town. *Riding in the dark on bad roads
in winter conditions carries a certain risk, and that risk may include
preventable head injury. *A helmet may be a reasonable preventative
measure. *Mine also keeps my head warm. -- Jay Beattie.

+1

And reduces sunburn (I still get evil stripes ;-)

JS.

On Jan 6, 4:23*pm, James wrote:

I have never hit my head in any cycling accident with enough force to
even show a scratch on my helmet. *That does not mean I never will,
and when I do I'd rather be wearing a helmet.

Does your first sentence above not apply as well to pedestrian
accidents and car accidents?

Why does your second sentence not apply equally?

Of course, there's a chance that it may. IOW, perhaps you really are
consistent and wear a helmet a lot more than I think.

- Frank Krygowski

On Jan 6, 4:25*pm, James wrote:
On Jan 7, 4:57*am, Frank Krygowski wrote:

On Jan 6, 3:53*am, James wrote:

Would you like to find some statistics of people who cycle and drive a
car who have suffered head injuries from either mode of transport?

Oh, here's some Canadian data:

snip

un-snipped
"Who should wear helmets?
Of 2500 Major Head Injuries Annually in Ontario
49% motor vehicle involvement - including pedestrians, excluding
cyclists
35% falls, 6% homicide, 2% suicide, 6% other causes
less than 2% Cycling
(Source: Canadian Institute For Health Information)"


I'll repeat the question is to "find statistics of people who cycle
and drive a car who have suffered head injuries from either mode of
transport?"

Notice the "and" between cycle _and_ drive?

??? Are you pretending that all of the people head injured in cars
must have never, ever ridden a bicycle? And that those few people
head injured on bikes must have never, ever ridden in cars?

That's beyond silly, James. Almost all cyclists (at least, in the
westernized countries) frequently ride in cars. Almost all motorists
have ridden bikes, and a great many still do. The "Danger! Danger!"
warnings haven't yet dropped that number to zero.

Therefore, the numbers given above are almost certainly dominated by
people who do cycle _and_ drive.

Of course, if you _do_ have data that proves me wrong, please post
it. Although I've noticed that providing data isn't part of your
normal habits.

- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Jan 6, 4:23 pm, James wrote:
I have never hit my head in any cycling accident with enough force to
even show a scratch on my helmet. That does not mean I never will,
and when I do I'd rather be wearing a helmet.

Does your first sentence above not apply as well to pedestrian
accidents and car accidents?

If you exclude the fact that I have had multiple cycling accidents that
have resulted in large amounts of skin off, many stitches, a broken leg,
finger and hand, chances are higher that I will bounce my head off
something next time. Crashes are somewhat random events. The higher
the frequency of crashes, the higher your chances of striking your head.

I have never received any injury from motoring or walking.

Why does your second sentence not apply equally?

I take great care when crossing the street. A lot more than those who
receive injuries I'll wager.

Likewise while driving I take great care and suspect that my chances of
being involved in a crash and suffering injury is way less than the average.

I understand that both activities are dangerous.

Of course, there's a chance that it may. IOW, perhaps you really are
consistent and wear a helmet a lot more than I think.

Next time I have to crawl under the house or into the roof space I will
probably wear a helmet. The last time I was in the roof to install a
new light fitting, I bumped my head several times and my scalp was a
mess for a couple of weeks.

No statistics from you?

My guess is that many cyclists are more astute and aware of the hazards
on the road, and make better motorists and pedestrians than the average.

JS.