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  #1  
Old March 2nd 09, 03:07 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
D'ohBoy
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Posts: 548
Default Wrong wrong wrong.... (ON topic)

Well, there were a lotta things said by various 'authoritative'
individuals about my new carbon wheels.

Firstly, and most importantly: braking is as good as with any of my
alloy rims! Did a coupla panic stops, and some more gradual braking
during bombing a hill, with an anticipated turn at the bottom type
braking. Yes, the brakes did require a bit more modulation but
certainly I was able to stop and control braking as well as ever.
Yes, the pads are more spendy (unless purchased in bulkish quantities
on ebay - which I did) but they do work quite well.

Secondly: no, I did NOT have to correct the spoke line.

Anyhoo, the wheels climb like a monkey, spin up nice and are only
mildly affected by crosswinds (30mm section). Went for a ride
yesterday in 15 - 20 mph winds and had a great time. 18 degrees
ambient. God it was great to get out on the bike again!

Sorry (oh, wait, not sorry at all), but you 'nattering nabobs of
negativism' were totally wrong.

D'ohBoy
Ads
  #2  
Old March 2nd 09, 03:11 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jim beam[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 479
Default Wrong wrong wrong.... (ON topic)

D'ohBoy wrote:
Well, there were a lotta things said by various 'authoritative'
individuals about my new carbon wheels.

Firstly, and most importantly: braking is as good as with any of my
alloy rims! Did a coupla panic stops, and some more gradual braking
during bombing a hill, with an anticipated turn at the bottom type
braking. Yes, the brakes did require a bit more modulation but
certainly I was able to stop and control braking as well as ever.
Yes, the pads are more spendy (unless purchased in bulkish quantities
on ebay - which I did) but they do work quite well.

Secondly: no, I did NOT have to correct the spoke line.

Anyhoo, the wheels climb like a monkey, spin up nice and are only
mildly affected by crosswinds (30mm section). Went for a ride
yesterday in 15 - 20 mph winds and had a great time. 18 degrees
ambient. God it was great to get out on the bike again!

Sorry (oh, wait, not sorry at all), but you 'nattering nabobs of
negativism' were totally wrong.

D'ohBoy


oh come on - being underinformed and not having any experience doesn't
mean you can't have an opinion!
  #3  
Old March 2nd 09, 04:26 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 41
Default Wrong wrong wrong.... (ON topic)

On 2 mrt, 15:07, "D'ohBoy" wrote:
Well, there were a lotta things said by various 'authoritative'
individuals about my new carbon wheels.

Firstly, and most importantly: *braking is as good as with any of my
alloy rims! *Did a coupla panic stops, and some more gradual braking
during bombing a hill, with an anticipated turn at the bottom type
braking. *Yes, the brakes did require a bit more modulation but
certainly I was able to stop and control braking as well as ever.
Yes, the pads are more spendy (unless purchased in bulkish quantities
on ebay - which I did) but they do work quite well.

Secondly: *no, I did NOT have to correct the spoke line.

Anyhoo, the wheels climb like a monkey, spin up nice and are only
mildly affected by crosswinds (30mm section). *Went for a ride
yesterday in 15 - 20 mph winds and had a great time. *18 degrees
ambient. *God it was great to get out on the bike again!

Sorry (oh, wait, not sorry at all), but you 'nattering nabobs of
negativism' were totally wrong.

D'ohBoy


Was it wet yesterday?
Did you notice any advantages compared to the cheaper alloy rims? If I
remembered correctly they were on the heavy side.

Lou
  #4  
Old March 2nd 09, 04:48 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
D'ohBoy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 548
Default Wrong wrong wrong.... (ON topic)

On Mar 2, 9:26*am, wrote:
On 2 mrt, 15:07, "D'ohBoy" wrote:



Well, there were a lotta things said by various 'authoritative'
individuals about my new carbon wheels.


Firstly, and most importantly: *braking is as good as with any of my
alloy rims! *Did a coupla panic stops, and some more gradual braking
during bombing a hill, with an anticipated turn at the bottom type
braking. *Yes, the brakes did require a bit more modulation but
certainly I was able to stop and control braking as well as ever.
Yes, the pads are more spendy (unless purchased in bulkish quantities
on ebay - which I did) but they do work quite well.


Secondly: *no, I did NOT have to correct the spoke line.


Anyhoo, the wheels climb like a monkey, spin up nice and are only
mildly affected by crosswinds (30mm section). *Went for a ride
yesterday in 15 - 20 mph winds and had a great time. *18 degrees
ambient. *God it was great to get out on the bike again!


Sorry (oh, wait, not sorry at all), but you 'nattering nabobs of
negativism' were totally wrong.


D'ohBoy


Was it wet yesterday?
Did you notice any advantages compared to the cheaper alloy rims? If I
remembered correctly they were on the heavy side.

Lou


The cheaper alloy rims that weigh much more? Yes. To get a rim as
light (390 gms) I have to go to the IRD Cadence. Box section, non-
aero, wimpy rim. Destroyed the first rear I had because the single
eyelets pulled outta the rim with just 105 kgf on the DS in less than
a year of riding.

And to get a rim as stiff, I would have to add 180 gms *per rim* for
Velocity Deep Vees with the same section (actually not as aero as the
aero section on the Protech but the same depth).

So these are lighter than alloy rims with the same section by 360 gms,
and yet as strong as those much heavier rims.

And since I have the coin, I can enjoy the ride. Plus it was a kick
building the wheels as I am an inveterate putterer.

No, Lou, it wasn't wet. But I imagine similar performance from my
braking (i.e., the brakes will have to clear the gunk and water before
they kick in as with a wet alloy rim). And I will be wary of the wet
until I have proven otherwise.

Not persuaded yet. And if you do turn out to be right, Lou, well,
then I don't ride them if it's gonna rain. Generally don't ride in
the rain anyhoo, if I can help it.

D'ohBoy
  #5  
Old March 2nd 09, 05:12 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 41
Default Wrong wrong wrong.... (ON topic)

On 2 mrt, 16:48, "D'ohBoy" wrote:
On Mar 2, 9:26*am, wrote:





On 2 mrt, 15:07, "D'ohBoy" wrote:


Well, there were a lotta things said by various 'authoritative'
individuals about my new carbon wheels.


Firstly, and most importantly: *braking is as good as with any of my
alloy rims! *Did a coupla panic stops, and some more gradual braking
during bombing a hill, with an anticipated turn at the bottom type
braking. *Yes, the brakes did require a bit more modulation but
certainly I was able to stop and control braking as well as ever.
Yes, the pads are more spendy (unless purchased in bulkish quantities
on ebay - which I did) but they do work quite well.


Secondly: *no, I did NOT have to correct the spoke line.


Anyhoo, the wheels climb like a monkey, spin up nice and are only
mildly affected by crosswinds (30mm section). *Went for a ride
yesterday in 15 - 20 mph winds and had a great time. *18 degrees
ambient. *God it was great to get out on the bike again!


Sorry (oh, wait, not sorry at all), but you 'nattering nabobs of
negativism' were totally wrong.


D'ohBoy


Was it wet yesterday?
Did you notice any advantages compared to the cheaper alloy rims? If I
remembered correctly they were on the heavy side.


Lou


The cheaper alloy rims that weigh much more? *Yes. *To get a rim as
light (390 gms) I have to go to the IRD Cadence. * Box section, non-
aero, wimpy rim. *Destroyed the first rear I had because the single
eyelets pulled outta the rim with just 105 kgf on the DS in less than
a year of riding.

And to get a rim as stiff, I would have to add 180 gms *per rim* for
Velocity Deep Vees with the same section (actually not as aero as the
aero section on the Protech but the same depth).

So these are lighter than alloy rims with the same section by 360 gms,
and yet as strong as those much heavier rims.

And since I have the coin, I can enjoy the ride. *Plus it was a kick
building the wheels as I am an inveterate putterer.

No, Lou, it wasn't wet. *But I imagine similar performance from my
braking (i.e., the brakes will have to clear the gunk and water before
they kick in as with a wet alloy rim). *And I will be wary of the wet
until I have proven otherwise.

Not persuaded yet. *And if you do turn out to be right, Lou, well,
then I don't ride them if it's gonna rain. *Generally don't ride in
the rain anyhoo, if I can help it.

D'ohBoy- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -

- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -


OK it is a weight thing than and yes they are quite a bit lighter than
similar alloy rims although 180 gr per rim is somewhat exaggerated. I
remembered wrong. I have no problem with it. If you only enjoy the
looks it OK with me. I gave you my honest opinion based on using Campy
Hyperon wheels for two years. My conclusion was that they have no
functional benefits and have serious drawbacks when descending steep
hairpinned Alpes were weight would be a factor.

Have fun with them, but your subject title is ehh.. wrong because I
was telling the truth and nothing but the truth ;-)

Lou
  #6  
Old March 2nd 09, 05:25 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jwbinpdx
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 61
Default Wrong wrong wrong.... (ON topic)

On Mar 2, 7:48*am, "D'ohBoy" wrote:
On Mar 2, 9:26*am, wrote:





On 2 mrt, 15:07, "D'ohBoy" wrote:


Well, there were a lotta things said by various 'authoritative'
individuals about my new carbon wheels.


Firstly, and most importantly: *braking is as good as with any of my
alloy rims! *Did a coupla panic stops, and some more gradual braking
during bombing a hill, with an anticipated turn at the bottom type
braking. *Yes, the brakes did require a bit more modulation but
certainly I was able to stop and control braking as well as ever.
Yes, the pads are more spendy (unless purchased in bulkish quantities
on ebay - which I did) but they do work quite well.


Secondly: *no, I did NOT have to correct the spoke line.


Anyhoo, the wheels climb like a monkey, spin up nice and are only
mildly affected by crosswinds (30mm section). *Went for a ride
yesterday in 15 - 20 mph winds and had a great time. *18 degrees
ambient. *God it was great to get out on the bike again!


Sorry (oh, wait, not sorry at all), but you 'nattering nabobs of
negativism' were totally wrong.


D'ohBoy


Was it wet yesterday?
Did you notice any advantages compared to the cheaper alloy rims? If I
remembered correctly they were on the heavy side.


Lou


The cheaper alloy rims that weigh much more? *Yes. *To get a rim as
light (390 gms) I have to go to the IRD Cadence. * Box section, non-
aero, wimpy rim. *Destroyed the first rear I had because the single
eyelets pulled outta the rim with just 105 kgf on the DS in less than
a year of riding.


Or you can get a Velocity Aerohead at 400g for $49. Perfectly fine
rime for most people. What is your finished wheel weight?

And to get a rim as stiff, I would have to add 180 gms *per rim* for
Velocity Deep Vees with the same section (actually not as aero as the
aero section on the Protech but the same depth).

So these are lighter than alloy rims with the same section by 360 gms,
and yet as strong as those much heavier rims.

And since I have the coin, I can enjoy the ride. *Plus it was a kick
building the wheels as I am an inveterate putterer.

No, Lou, it wasn't wet. *But I imagine similar performance from my
braking (i.e., the brakes will have to clear the gunk and water before
they kick in as with a wet alloy rim). *And I will be wary of the wet
until I have proven otherwise.


Keep us posted. Seriously. I would like to hear how CF works as a
stand alone rim and not part of a package wheel. -- Jay Beattie.

  #7  
Old March 2nd 09, 05:48 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
D'ohBoy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 548
Default Wrong wrong wrong.... (ON topic)

On Mar 2, 10:12*am, wrote:
On 2 mrt, 16:48, "D'ohBoy" wrote:



On Mar 2, 9:26*am, wrote:


On 2 mrt, 15:07, "D'ohBoy" wrote:


Well, there were a lotta things said by various 'authoritative'
individuals about my new carbon wheels.


Firstly, and most importantly: *braking is as good as with any of my
alloy rims! *Did a coupla panic stops, and some more gradual braking
during bombing a hill, with an anticipated turn at the bottom type
braking. *Yes, the brakes did require a bit more modulation but
certainly I was able to stop and control braking as well as ever.
Yes, the pads are more spendy (unless purchased in bulkish quantities
on ebay - which I did) but they do work quite well.


Secondly: *no, I did NOT have to correct the spoke line.


Anyhoo, the wheels climb like a monkey, spin up nice and are only
mildly affected by crosswinds (30mm section). *Went for a ride
yesterday in 15 - 20 mph winds and had a great time. *18 degrees
ambient. *God it was great to get out on the bike again!


Sorry (oh, wait, not sorry at all), but you 'nattering nabobs of
negativism' were totally wrong.


D'ohBoy


Was it wet yesterday?
Did you notice any advantages compared to the cheaper alloy rims? If I
remembered correctly they were on the heavy side.


Lou


The cheaper alloy rims that weigh much more? *Yes. *To get a rim as
light (390 gms) I have to go to the IRD Cadence. * Box section, non-
aero, wimpy rim. *Destroyed the first rear I had because the single
eyelets pulled outta the rim with just 105 kgf on the DS in less than
a year of riding.


And to get a rim as stiff, I would have to add 180 gms *per rim* for
Velocity Deep Vees with the same section (actually not as aero as the
aero section on the Protech but the same depth).


So these are lighter than alloy rims with the same section by 360 gms,
and yet as strong as those much heavier rims.


And since I have the coin, I can enjoy the ride. *Plus it was a kick
building the wheels as I am an inveterate putterer.


No, Lou, it wasn't wet. *But I imagine similar performance from my
braking (i.e., the brakes will have to clear the gunk and water before
they kick in as with a wet alloy rim). *And I will be wary of the wet
until I have proven otherwise.


Not persuaded yet. *And if you do turn out to be right, Lou, well,
then I don't ride them if it's gonna rain. *Generally don't ride in
the rain anyhoo, if I can help it.


D'ohBoy- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -


- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -


OK it is a weight thing than and yes they are quite a bit lighter than
similar alloy rims although 180 gr per rim is somewhat exaggerated. *I
remembered wrong. I have no problem with it. If you only enjoy the
looks it OK with me. I gave you my honest opinion based on using Campy
Hyperon wheels for two years. My conclusion was that they have no
functional benefits and have serious drawbacks when descending steep
hairpinned Alpes were weight would be a factor.

Have fun with them, but your subject title is *ehh.. wrong because I
was telling the truth and nothing but the truth ;-)

Lou


Hi, Lou:

Agreed - your experience is yours and no one can take that away from
you. However....

Weight Weenies gives multiple listings for the Deep Vee at 580 gms
(!). This means that you are right, the difference is not 180 gms
per, but rather 190 gms per rim, or just under 400 gms for the set!!!

Huge difference in weight, more aero shape for the carbon rim and very
acceptable braking in the dry. More about the wet braking if it
occurs - but I won't seek it out

D'ohBoy
  #8  
Old March 2nd 09, 05:57 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
D'ohBoy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 548
Default Wrong wrong wrong.... (ON topic)

On Mar 2, 10:25*am, jwbinpdx wrote:
On Mar 2, 7:48*am, "D'ohBoy" wrote:



On Mar 2, 9:26*am, wrote:


On 2 mrt, 15:07, "D'ohBoy" wrote:


Well, there were a lotta things said by various 'authoritative'
individuals about my new carbon wheels.


Firstly, and most importantly: *braking is as good as with any of my
alloy rims! *Did a coupla panic stops, and some more gradual braking
during bombing a hill, with an anticipated turn at the bottom type
braking. *Yes, the brakes did require a bit more modulation but
certainly I was able to stop and control braking as well as ever.
Yes, the pads are more spendy (unless purchased in bulkish quantities
on ebay - which I did) but they do work quite well.


Secondly: *no, I did NOT have to correct the spoke line.


Anyhoo, the wheels climb like a monkey, spin up nice and are only
mildly affected by crosswinds (30mm section). *Went for a ride
yesterday in 15 - 20 mph winds and had a great time. *18 degrees
ambient. *God it was great to get out on the bike again!


Sorry (oh, wait, not sorry at all), but you 'nattering nabobs of
negativism' were totally wrong.


D'ohBoy


Was it wet yesterday?
Did you notice any advantages compared to the cheaper alloy rims? If I
remembered correctly they were on the heavy side.


Lou


The cheaper alloy rims that weigh much more? *Yes. *To get a rim as
light (390 gms) I have to go to the IRD Cadence. * Box section, non-
aero, wimpy rim. *Destroyed the first rear I had because the single
eyelets pulled outta the rim with just 105 kgf on the DS in less than
a year of riding.


Or you can get a Velocity Aerohead at 400g for $49. *Perfectly fine
rime for most people. *What is your finished wheel weight?

And to get a rim as stiff, I would have to add 180 gms *per rim* for
Velocity Deep Vees with the same section (actually not as aero as the
aero section on the Protech but the same depth).


So these are lighter than alloy rims with the same section by 360 gms,
and yet as strong as those much heavier rims.


And since I have the coin, I can enjoy the ride. *Plus it was a kick
building the wheels as I am an inveterate putterer.


No, Lou, it wasn't wet. *But I imagine similar performance from my
braking (i.e., the brakes will have to clear the gunk and water before
they kick in as with a wet alloy rim). *And I will be wary of the wet
until I have proven otherwise.


Keep us posted. *Seriously. *I would like to hear how CF works as a
stand alone rim and not part of a package wheel. -- Jay Beattie.


Finished wheel weight is ~950 gms for the rear, about 560 for the
front. Rear is on a ~420 gm powertap, however. Woulda been about 700
for the rear with a tune or other high-end hub.

Anyhoo - yah the Aerohead is okay. Not quite the rim for daily use
for a big boy (~95 kg) tho unless you go 36 spoke.

Have a buddy who goes around 240 - 250 and he put his 36 spoke OCR
Aerohead outta true every coupla weeks. Finally talked him into
picking up my old pair of 36 spoke CXP-33s. Now he never has to
true. Complains the bike feels heavy when he lifts it but he really
likes how they ride and *stay true*.

Don't know why it took him so long to realize the Aeroheads just
weren't for him, even in OCR format.

D'ohBoy
  #9  
Old March 2nd 09, 06:07 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tom Ace
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 391
Default Wrong wrong wrong.... (ON topic)

On Mar 2, 6:07*am, "D'ohBoy" wrote:

Firstly, and most importantly: *braking is as good as with any of my
alloy rims! *Did a coupla panic stops, and some more gradual braking
during bombing a hill, with an anticipated turn at the bottom type
braking. *Yes, the brakes did require a bit more modulation but
certainly I was able to stop and control braking as well as ever.


Can you say what made them need more modulation?
Were they grabby? Was braking force less linear with
respect to force applied at the lever?

Anyhoo, the wheels climb like a monkey, [...]


And this means... what?

If the rims weigh less than aluminum rims, the difference
is on the order of a quarter of one percent of total bike
plus rider weight: not the stuff that significantly easier
climbing is made of.

Tom Ace
  #10  
Old March 2nd 09, 06:22 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
D'ohBoy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 548
Default Wrong wrong wrong.... (ON topic)

On Mar 2, 11:07*am, Tom Ace wrote:
On Mar 2, 6:07*am, "D'ohBoy" wrote:

Firstly, and most importantly: *braking is as good as with any of my
alloy rims! *Did a coupla panic stops, and some more gradual braking
during bombing a hill, with an anticipated turn at the bottom type
braking. *Yes, the brakes did require a bit more modulation but
certainly I was able to stop and control braking as well as ever.


Can you say what made them need more modulation?
Were they grabby? *Was braking force less linear with
respect to force applied at the lever?


Actually, it was as Mr. Holtman described earlier - won't grab hard
initially, but you don't want to clamp down as they (the brakepads)
will heat up and start to grab big time. This occurs rapidly and a
gentle application of force to the brake pad will actually stop me as
well as moderate force on alloy rims.

So not only is there a lack of 'linearity' but also a time-based
component to the braking. Took me all of one hard brake application
to fully understand it (knew what to expect from the earlier thread on
these and other carbon rims) and to be able to brake well and quickly.

Anyhoo, the wheels climb like a monkey, [...]


And this means... what?


This means the following: my subjective perception is that they
accelerate better than wheels that are heavier at the rim.


If the rims weigh less than aluminum rims, the difference
is on the order of a quarter of one percent of total bike
plus rider weight: *not the stuff that significantly easier
climbing is made of.


The benefits of these rims are in the realm (based on my current
experience, more to come) of being a great combination of aero AND
light weight that I cannot get from an alloy rim. These are not
generally for duffers, and alloy rims are, I agree, the best most cost
effective solution for most people.

I can see you are in the camp that feels that rotating weight is
meaningless . Not to start that whole kerfuffle again.


Tom Ace


D'ohBoy
 




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