"Australia ‘world’s worst place for cyclists’, says Danish rider who’s circled the globe "

On Monday, December 8, 2014 1:37:20 PM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/8/2014 2:57 PM, Lou Holtman wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/8/2014 12:06 AM, James wrote:
It's hard to imagine. I would have thought there were worse places, but
there you go.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-advice/australia-worlds-worst-place-for-cyclists-says-danish-rider-whos-circled-the-globe/story-fnndib5x-1227148325250


From the article, one cyclist says ""As an Australian who moved to
France, I couldn't believe how respectful the French are to cyclists, and
how much space they gave them when overtaking!"

Later, "Mr Andersen thinks it could be the lack of infrastructure to help
facilitate cycling." ... "You need more infrastructure in place to
start, and more cycle lanes -- you have them for a bit, and then a gap."

But when we rode in France, we did hundreds of miles on roads and city
streets with no special bike facilities, and were treated extremely well
by motorists. So I don't think infrastructure is a root cause. In fact,
I suspect that bike lanes and side tracks would increase demands that
cyclists ride _only_ in such places.

My guess for the source of hostility is tribalism. Humans tend to be
hostile to those who seem to come from a different tribe, and bicyclists
are often perceived that way. We're obviously very different from the
plump guy driving a big SUV while munching a Big Mac.

And I suppose our predisposition to bright-colored lycra doesn't help. It
also proclaims we're from a different tribe. It seems almost as
off-putting as wearing sagging ghetto pants in a cowboy bar.

I do a lot of my riding in regular (suburban American) clothes. I wonder
if that's why I have so few problems with motorists.


Wow, you are also a retired analist?

Just a guy who reads a lot, and thinks a lot.

Man that guy rode just one day in
Sydney, a big city. Riding in big cities suck even in the Netherlands. If
you ride in Amsterdam for a day I bet you are abused a couple of times by
taxidrivers, the worst kind of all.

Huh. I've been told that Amsterdam is paradise, and that no bicyclist
there ever stops smiling.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Try smiling after you've ridden into a canal.

On Monday, December 8, 2014 9:17:21 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/8/2014 12:06 AM, James wrote:
It's hard to imagine. I would have thought there were worse places, but
there you go.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-advice/australia-worlds-worst-place-for-cyclists-says-danish-rider-whos-circled-the-globe/story-fnndib5x-1227148325250


From the article, one cyclist says ""As an Australian who moved to
France, I couldn't believe how respectful the French are to cyclists,
and how much space they gave them when overtaking!"

Later, "Mr Andersen thinks it could be the lack of infrastructure to
help facilitate cycling." ... "You need more infrastructure in place to
start, and more cycle lanes -- you have them for a bit, and then a gap."

But when we rode in France, we did hundreds of miles on roads and city
streets with no special bike facilities, and were treated extremely well
by motorists. So I don't think infrastructure is a root cause. In
fact, I suspect that bike lanes and side tracks would increase demands
that cyclists ride _only_ in such places.

My guess for the source of hostility is tribalism. Humans tend to be
hostile to those who seem to come from a different tribe, and bicyclists
are often perceived that way. We're obviously very different from the
plump guy driving a big SUV while munching a Big Mac.

And I suppose our predisposition to bright-colored lycra doesn't help.
It also proclaims we're from a different tribe. It seems almost as
off-putting as wearing sagging ghetto pants in a cowboy bar.

I do a lot of my riding in regular (suburban American) clothes. I
wonder if that's why I have so few problems with motorists.

--
- Frank Krygowski

My experience in France was limited to being a pedestrian and the French drivers seemed to be very careful there as well. But the PEDESTRIANS on Le Alpe D'Huez could have been shot! As racers would pass they would jump out in front of team cars to look up the road at the disappearing riders.

On Mon, 08 Dec 2014 12:17:16 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

And I suppose our predisposition to bright-colored lycra doesn't help.
It also proclaims we're from a different tribe. It seems almost as
off-putting as wearing sagging ghetto pants in a cowboy bar.

I do a lot of my riding in regular (suburban American) clothes. I
wonder if that's why I have so few problems with motorists.

I ride only in orange or yellow shirts that I never wear off the bike,
and the shirt suitable for the current weather is tight enough to look
like Lycra. No problems with motorists; even on the street with the
"bike lane", they leave me four feet when overtaking.

But this is a small town; they may know that I'm Steve's crazy aunt.

Great news: the last time I went to Aldi, I found another bike in my
parking space. On the same trip, I saw, also for the first time,
someone using "my" steps to the bread store -- apparently he didn't
want to negotiate tight turns to get to the convenience store in a
long-haul semi-tractor pulling a very long flatbed trailer. But the
steps are much older than the gas station, let alone the convenience
store inside it; I still don't know what the steps were built for.

--
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://joybeeson.home.comcast.net/
The above message is a Usenet post.
I don't recall having given anyone permission to use it on a Web site.

On Monday, December 8, 2014 12:06:57 AM UTC-5, James wrote:
It's hard to imagine. I would have thought there were worse places, but
there you go.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-advice/australia-worlds-worst-place-for-cyclists-says-danish-rider-whos-circled-the-globe/story-fnndib5x-1227148325250

--
JS



James has an attitude so there we go....right ?

Jute has a point....searching with adjectives valuing BEHAVIOR ....rude/aggressive....gives different results...war/sex...sex pops up with numbers interested..in sex among other things eg aggressivenss and war

http://www.mobal.com/blog/travel-tal...est-countries/

???

anyone for broiled wallaby ?

On Tuesday, December 9, 2014 12:24:55 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, December 8, 2014 12:06:57 AM UTC-5, James wrote:
It's hard to imagine. I would have thought there were worse places, but
there you go.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-advice/australia-worlds-worst-place-for-cyclists-says-danish-rider-whos-circled-the-globe/story-fnndib5x-1227148325250

--
JS



James has an attitude so there we go....right ?

Jute has a point....searching with adjectives valuing BEHAVIOR ....rude/aggressive....gives different results...war/sex...sex pops up with numbers interested..in sex among other things eg aggressivenss and war

http://www.mobal.com/blog/travel-tal...est-countries/

???

anyone for broiled wallaby ?

http://worldbiking.info/resources/St...Resources.html

On Tuesday, December 9, 2014 12:33:26 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tuesday, December 9, 2014 12:24:55 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Monday, December 8, 2014 12:06:57 AM UTC-5, James wrote:
It's hard to imagine. I would have thought there were worse places, but
there you go.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-advice/australia-worlds-worst-place-for-cyclists-says-danish-rider-whos-circled-the-globe/story-fnndib5x-1227148325250

--
JS



James has an attitude so there we go....right ?

Jute has a point....searching with adjectives valuing BEHAVIOR ....rude/aggressive....gives different results...war/sex...sex pops up with numbers interested..in sex among other things eg aggressivenss and war

http://www.mobal.com/blog/travel-tal...est-countries/

???

anyone for broiled wallaby ?

http://worldbiking.info/resources/St...Resources.html

.......................

WORK THIS IN

http://goo.gl/EWbk3C

BOULDER !

there is a motion on the table abt genetic background histories and cold weather/warmer climates

On Mon, 08 Dec 2014 23:22:58 -0400, Joy Beeson
wrote:

On Mon, 08 Dec 2014 12:17:16 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

And I suppose our predisposition to bright-colored lycra doesn't help.
It also proclaims we're from a different tribe. It seems almost as
off-putting as wearing sagging ghetto pants in a cowboy bar.

I do a lot of my riding in regular (suburban American) clothes. I
wonder if that's why I have so few problems with motorists.

I ride only in orange or yellow shirts that I never wear off the bike,

You mean you get off the bike and rip your shirt off :-)


and the shirt suitable for the current weather is tight enough to look
like Lycra. No problems with motorists; even on the street with the
"bike lane", they leave me four feet when overtaking.



--
Cheers,

John B.

WORK THIS IN

http://goo.gl/EWbk3C

BOULDER !

there is a motion on the table abt genetic background histories and cold weather/warmer climates

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

and least.....

http://247wallst.com/special-report/...ated-cities/4/

note Cal's position(s)

surprise ! Havasu....Havasu and Moro Bay rank tops for aggressive street behaviors from pick up truck vigilantes, rated from here on the road.

On 12/8/2014 10:22 PM, Joy Beeson wrote:
... No problems with motorists; even on the street with the
"bike lane", they leave me four feet when overtaking.

But this is a small town; they may know that I'm Steve's crazy aunt.

I think that can really help a regular rider. After years of commuting
by bike, I guessed that something like 75% of the motorists I saw had
encountered my before. I imagine that instead thinking I was "one of
those weird dudes from the bicycle tribe," they eventually started
thinking "Oh, there's that guy on the bike again." (And it may have
helped that my bike commuting triggered two prominent interviews by the
newspaper, and one by a local TV station.)

And since the motorists never saw me blowing stop signs or traffic
lights, etc. they had no real justification for hostility.

But all that is a guess, of course.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Sunday, December 7, 2014 9:06:57 PM UTC-8, James wrote:
It's hard to imagine. I would have thought there were worse places, but
there you go.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-advice/australia-worlds-worst-place-for-cyclists-says-danish-rider-whos-circled-the-globe/story-fnndib5x-1227148325250

--
JS

In CPH I stopped to take a Pee in a public Toilet , when I came ous somneone who was in process of stripping muy bike rode away ..

having removed the center Bolts on my Cantilever brakes

so Denmark is not ethical paradise either .