Bike Projects, Project Bikes

I'm messing around with a carbon fiber frame and fork I bought on ebay
from one of the generic Chinese frame and accessory sellers. It looks
pretty good so far, as copying the frame dimensions of popular high
bling brands (even if they aren't really made on the same molds as
many sellers like to imply) I am expecting that at worst it will be
like a new brand without the benefit of feedback from riders.

I am pulling together bits from my Record kit that was replenished in
2008, though I didn't get a UT crankset for it, yet.

The bike is either going to have a UT 110 BCD crank, or a triple from
Shimano. I want to try out a triple with tight cogs (I have Miche
cassettes to make any odd combinations I want, and use the Campy
standard cassettes on other wheels to get the 10V 12/23 or 12/25.

I have been riding in the north east corner of Placer County, and I
want to get in to some extended rides up as close to the peaks as
possible. I will need both tight and extreme gears. I think that a 30
gear ride is not at all overkill as I learn how crucial cadence is for
laying down consistent power for hours on end.

Therefore I have a list of cranks I want to try, first a Shimano 30/39
(or up to 42) and 52+(as large as possible). I have my eye on a 105
5600 and I need to find a bottom bracket to save some weight if
possible.


Question 1) Are there any light bottom brackets at reasonable prices?
I went with a cheaper crank since none will be used full time, and I
will spend money where I know it will help.


I might look at Ultegra cranks for the double. The only reason I
started with a Shimano is the cranks seem decent in the last few
years, and I wanted to have optimum shifting up front with a triple.
If I were able to find a double with a wide enough gap, I would try
something like a 30 to 34 small ring with the largest possible, like a
55 top ring with a 13 would be big enough for spinning on long
descents. Since that is not possible that I know of, that led to the
idea to try a triple.


If Campy had a UT triple, I would prefer that, but...they don't. So
Shimano has the possibility to change easily without much fuss between
triple and double, plus the slightly better front shifting.

However, I would like to hear any opinions whether swapping between a
Campy UT and Shimano triple might not actually be any more difficult.
I would probably use the triple from December to whenever I start
pushing bigger gears in the warm weather. This year was very late
because of weather patterns, but no matter when I do it, it will still
be once in each direction per year, and I would use the opportunity to
make sure the entire drivetrain is in good shape.

FWIW, I considered SRAM, and Shimano would normally have been a third
choice if that, but Shimano is the only brand that I know I can get to
work well with any combination in the front, triple, double etc.

I guess the last question would be, has anyone tried a triple with
Campy Ergopower levers? It might even shift better than on a double, I
am just being cautious at this point.

It seems like people are afraid of the image of a triple. Sure they
weigh a little more, but these days people buy all kinds of cranks
that are not really so light as you might think. In other words,
people are not counting grams so much as just avoiding triples on
principal. That is silly.

Lastly, if I do ditch the triple, I can always go with an 11-speed and
get closer to the triple that way. Using a 12-27 in the winter with a
50/34 would be ideal. The problem is the expense...of replacing too
many cassettes and carriers!

What about using a Campy Ergo brifter with a Shimano front derailleur?
The lightest triple I saw was a FSA, I forget which model, but it was
almost $500.

Wait, I have one more question. This might be the most interesting
when you realize I am not joking; what kind of mods would I need to
process my Miche cogs to work on an 11-speed cassette? I do a lot of
woodwork DIY, and other projects like guitar amps and cabs. I am
seriously shopping for a small mill. It won't be that much more
expense to get one that can shape metals in small jobs. I would really
like to make my own brass guitar bridges and nuts. Once I get that
far, there are other odds and ends I can make. Being able to mill my
own cassette cogs might be a bit much to start, but if I only need to
shave them a little bit, I would enjoy trying it for fun.

Any other related pipe dreams would be nice to hear.

Have at it.

On 6/17/2011 7:44 PM, Chris M wrote:
I'm messing around with a carbon fiber frame and fork I bought on ebay
from one of the generic Chinese frame and accessory sellers. It looks
pretty good so far, as copying the frame dimensions of popular high
bling brands (even if they aren't really made on the same molds as
many sellers like to imply) I am expecting that at worst it will be
like a new brand without the benefit of feedback from riders.

I am pulling together bits from my Record kit that was replenished in
2008, though I didn't get a UT crankset for it, yet.

The bike is either going to have a UT 110 BCD crank, or a triple from
Shimano. I want to try out a triple with tight cogs (I have Miche
cassettes to make any odd combinations I want, and use the Campy
standard cassettes on other wheels to get the 10V 12/23 or 12/25.

I have been riding in the north east corner of Placer County, and I
want to get in to some extended rides up as close to the peaks as
possible. I will need both tight and extreme gears. I think that a 30
gear ride is not at all overkill as I learn how crucial cadence is for
laying down consistent power for hours on end.

Therefore I have a list of cranks I want to try, first a Shimano 30/39
(or up to 42) and 52+(as large as possible). I have my eye on a 105
5600 and I need to find a bottom bracket to save some weight if
possible.


Question 1) Are there any light bottom brackets at reasonable prices?
I went with a cheaper crank since none will be used full time, and I
will spend money where I know it will help.


I might look at Ultegra cranks for the double. The only reason I
started with a Shimano is the cranks seem decent in the last few
years, and I wanted to have optimum shifting up front with a triple.
If I were able to find a double with a wide enough gap, I would try
something like a 30 to 34 small ring with the largest possible, like a
55 top ring with a 13 would be big enough for spinning on long
descents. Since that is not possible that I know of, that led to the
idea to try a triple.


If Campy had a UT triple, I would prefer that, but...they don't. So
Shimano has the possibility to change easily without much fuss between
triple and double, plus the slightly better front shifting.

However, I would like to hear any opinions whether swapping between a
Campy UT and Shimano triple might not actually be any more difficult.
I would probably use the triple from December to whenever I start
pushing bigger gears in the warm weather. This year was very late
because of weather patterns, but no matter when I do it, it will still
be once in each direction per year, and I would use the opportunity to
make sure the entire drivetrain is in good shape.

FWIW, I considered SRAM, and Shimano would normally have been a third
choice if that, but Shimano is the only brand that I know I can get to
work well with any combination in the front, triple, double etc.

I guess the last question would be, has anyone tried a triple with
Campy Ergopower levers? It might even shift better than on a double, I
am just being cautious at this point.

It seems like people are afraid of the image of a triple. Sure they
weigh a little more, but these days people buy all kinds of cranks
that are not really so light as you might think. In other words,
people are not counting grams so much as just avoiding triples on
principal. That is silly.

Lastly, if I do ditch the triple, I can always go with an 11-speed and
get closer to the triple that way. Using a 12-27 in the winter with a
50/34 would be ideal. The problem is the expense...of replacing too
many cassettes and carriers!

What about using a Campy Ergo brifter with a Shimano front derailleur?
The lightest triple I saw was a FSA, I forget which model, but it was
almost $500.

Wait, I have one more question. This might be the most interesting
when you realize I am not joking; what kind of mods would I need to
process my Miche cogs to work on an 11-speed cassette? I do a lot of
woodwork DIY, and other projects like guitar amps and cabs. I am
seriously shopping for a small mill. It won't be that much more
expense to get one that can shape metals in small jobs. I would really
like to make my own brass guitar bridges and nuts. Once I get that
far, there are other odds and ends I can make. Being able to mill my
own cassette cogs might be a bit much to start, but if I only need to
shave them a little bit, I would enjoy trying it for fun.

Any other related pipe dreams would be nice to hear.

Have at it.

Ditch the derailers.

Schlumpf bottom-bracket in front and Rohloff rear hub.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

Chris M wrote:

Question 1) *Are there any light bottom brackets at reasonable prices?

Regl'r old Shimano 24mm bore outboard bearing BBs cost $22 at my
shop. I don't see how they could be significantly lighter and still
have a bearing in each side. I think expensive outboard bearing BBs
that have the same bore diameters as cheaper ones constitute a sort of
pass/fail IQ test.

Lastly, if I do ditch the triple, I can always go with an 11-speed and
get closer to the triple that way.

What I just said about a pass/fail IQ test? 11-speed is another
one.

Chalo

On 6/17/2011 7:44 PM, Chris M wrote:

....
Wait, I have one more question. This might be the most interesting
when you realize I am not joking; what kind of mods would I need to
process my Miche cogs to work on an 11-speed cassette? [-1-] I do a lot of
woodwork DIY, and other projects like guitar amps and cabs. I am
seriously shopping for a small mill. It won't be that much more
expense to get one that can shape metals in small jobs. [-2-] I would really
like to make my own brass guitar bridges and nuts. Once I get that
far, there are other odds and ends I can make. Being able to mill my
own cassette cogs might be a bit much to start, [-3-] but if I only need to
shave them a little bit, I would enjoy trying it for fun.

Any other related pipe dreams would be nice to hear.

Have at it.


questions numbered for clarity....

[-1-] If the cogs are hardened, you would need a welding torch to anneal
and re-harden them.

[-2-] I've never heard of a small mill that could only cut wood.

[-3-] The cog teeth you would be able to cut perfectly on a small mill
easily if you had a rotary table and dividing plates for it (for the
rotary table).
One example for about $160 US-
http://www.grizzly.com/products/4-Ro...Indexing/H5940

I don't like the 4-inch tables though, they are VERY small. The 6-inch
ones are much better, but over 2X the price. And the mill must be larger
to usefully accommodate them--but they will work on a small mill.

The tables usually have plates drilled with the Brown & Sharp patterns.

There are also small rotary tables that have "indexing plates" as well
as various other types of spin indexers, but I don't recommend them as
these don't support nearly as many different number combinations as the
Brown & Sharp-style plates do.


[note that pretty much all this stuff is China-made, and so it's
available from different sources. I'm just familiar with what Grizzly sells]

-----

If the cogs have a different style of splined hole, that can be a
significant problem. For the most part, the two machines used to cut
splines and splined holes properly, are either not cheap or very
practical to own.
.....
Probably the easiest way would be to clamp the two different sprockets
together and carefully use one as a guide to hand-file the hole of the
other into the same shape.
....
Some people do simple keyway cutting on a lathe, with a hand-driven
method that is very slow but more accurate than hand-filing. It might
also be possible to do the same thing on the mill-drill using the quill
plunge and the rotary table.

On Jun 17, 5:44 pm, Chris M wrote:

snip


Any other related pipe dreams would be nice to hear.

Have at it.

This frame is still sitting in a box, though I had it sort of cobbled
together enough at one point that it might have been ridden. still
need shifters, seatpost, FD clamp, and maybe some brake mounting
bolt(s).

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...abcce86a12f8ba

On Jun 17, 8:06*pm, Tºm Shermªn °_° ""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" wrote:
On 6/17/2011 7:44 PM, Chris M wrote:





I'm messing around with a carbon fiber frame and fork I bought on ebay
from one of the generic Chinese frame and accessory sellers. It looks
pretty good so far, as copying the frame dimensions of popular high
bling brands (even if they aren't really made on the same molds as
many sellers like to imply) I am expecting that at worst it will be
like a new brand without the benefit of feedback from riders.

I am pulling together bits from my Record kit that was replenished in
2008, though I didn't get a UT crankset for it, yet.

The bike is either going to have a UT 110 BCD crank, or a triple from
Shimano. I want to try out a triple with tight cogs (I have Miche
cassettes to make any odd combinations I want, and use the Campy
standard cassettes on other wheels to get the 10V 12/23 or 12/25.

I have been riding in the north east corner of Placer County, and I
want to get in to some extended rides up as close to the peaks as
possible. I will need both tight and extreme gears. I think that a 30
gear ride is not at all overkill as I learn how crucial cadence is for
laying down consistent power for hours on end.

Therefore I have a list of cranks I want to try, first a Shimano 30/39
(or up to 42) and 52+(as large as possible). I have my eye on a 105
5600 and I need to find a bottom bracket to save some weight if
possible.

Question 1) *Are there any light bottom brackets at reasonable prices?
I went with a cheaper crank since none will be used full time, and I
will spend money where I know it will help.

I might look at Ultegra cranks for the double. The only reason I
started with a Shimano is the cranks seem decent in the last few
years, and I wanted to have optimum shifting up front with a triple.
If I were able to find a double with a wide enough gap, I would try
something like a 30 to 34 small ring with the largest possible, like a
55 top ring with a 13 would be big enough for spinning on long
descents. Since that is not possible that I know of, that led to the
idea to try a triple.

If Campy had a UT triple, I would prefer that, but...they don't. So
Shimano has the possibility to change easily without much fuss between
triple and double, plus the slightly better front shifting.

However, I would like to hear any opinions whether swapping between a
Campy UT and Shimano triple might not actually be any more difficult.
I would probably use the triple from December to whenever I start
pushing bigger gears in the warm weather. This year was very late
because of weather patterns, but no matter when I do it, it will still
be once in each direction per year, and I would use the opportunity to
make sure the entire drivetrain is in good shape.

FWIW, I considered SRAM, and Shimano would normally have been a third
choice if that, but Shimano is the only brand that I know I can get to
work well with any combination in the front, triple, double etc.

I guess the last question would be, has anyone tried a triple with
Campy Ergopower levers? It might even shift better than on a double, I
am just being cautious at this point.

It seems like people are afraid of the image of a triple. Sure they
weigh a little *more, but these days people buy all kinds of cranks
that are not really so light as you might think. In other words,
people are not counting grams so much as just avoiding triples on
principal. That is silly.

Lastly, if I do ditch the triple, I can always go with an 11-speed and
get closer to the triple that way. Using a 12-27 in the winter with a
50/34 would be ideal. The problem is the expense...of replacing too
many cassettes and carriers!

What about using a Campy Ergo brifter with a Shimano front derailleur?
The lightest triple I saw was a FSA, I forget which model, but it was
almost $500.

Wait, I have one more question. This might be the most interesting
when you realize I am not joking; what kind of mods would I need to
process my Miche cogs to work on an 11-speed cassette? I do a lot of
woodwork DIY, and other projects like guitar amps and cabs. I am
seriously shopping for a small mill. It won't be that much more
expense to get one that can shape metals in small jobs. I would really
like to make my own brass guitar bridges and nuts. Once I get that
far, there are other odds and ends I can make. Being able to mill my
own cassette cogs might be a bit much to start, but if I only need to
shave them a little bit, I would enjoy trying it for fun.

Any other related pipe dreams would be nice to hear.

Have at it.

Ditch the derailers.

Schlumpf bottom-bracket in front and Rohloff rear hub.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.

I thought about that too. I need the ratios closer. If I could get a
Rohloff with 14 or even 10 unique gear ratios without to much gap in
between. The entire purpose is to get no more than ~5% or up to ~7%
gap from gear to gear at high speed. You can handle bigger gaps on
climbs, but as you get closer to peak power, cadence matters more than
cyclists seem to recognize.

Can I get custom ratios? That would be amazing!

On Jun 17, 11:42*pm, Chalo wrote:
Chris M wrote:

Question 1) *Are there any light bottom brackets at reasonable prices?

Regl'r old Shimano 24mm bore outboard bearing BBs cost $22 at my
shop. *I don't see how they could be significantly lighter and still
have a bearing in each side. *I think expensive outboard bearing BBs
that have the same bore diameters as cheaper ones constitute a sort of
pass/fail IQ test.


Like the ceramic bearings. I was hoping there were some unimportant
pieces that could be sub'ed with aluminum. I haven't handled any
outboard bearing cranks, ever. The best cassette carriers are aluminum
with steel inlays, but you never see those. I don't even know where to
start on a new-fangled crankset.

Lastly, if I do ditch the triple, I can always go with an 11-speed and
get closer to the triple that way.

What I just said about a pass/fail IQ test? *11-speed is another
one.


That's just silly. The value of one more gear choice when you can
really use it? Priceless. I wouldn't start all over again with wheels
and bikes (shifters, cassettes, chains, probably more) but if I was
just investigating my first race machine, I wouldn't even stutter.
There is just no such thing as too many gear choices. Too many
chainrings, maybe. Too many gear choices? Nope. Assuming you know how
to use them of course.