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#41
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Wear a helmet, you know it makes sense
On 26/02/2019 10:48, Ian Smith wrote:
On Tue, 26 Feb 2019 07:28:21 +0000, RJH wrote: OK - all good! So I think in summary you (and ) are saying that the risk of wearing a helmet outweighs the benefits? I'm not sure it's even that clear-cut. My view is that the benefits do not clearly outweigh the disbenefits (some of which are not risks, but just costs, minor aggro etc). I walk to the shops without dressing up in specific personal protective equipment - why should I not cycle to the same shops without doing so? Actually the official government statistics suggest I'm more likely to be killed walking there and back than cycling there and back. Ah, arrived at last, I see your way of thinking. Not much point discussing further, thanks for your input. -- Cheers, Rob |
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#43
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Wear a helmet, you know it makes sense
On 26/02/2019 10:48, GB wrote:
On 26/02/2019 08:10, RJH wrote: Absolutely - simply scenarios that can and do happen every day that I hadn't considered. All these anecdotes come from people who haven't died. They don't prove much, because the anecdotes from people who have died are curiously lacking on this newsgroup. If dead people could talk it wouldn't make any difference. We get lots of "my helmet saved my life" or "my doctor told me" anecdotes in the press, which they cannot prove. Did anyone explain why you are twice as likely to get hit if wearing a helmet? I did not write this. But at least I realise that the writer was putting a "what if", not claiming a fact. I suggest you look back at his original post. |
#44
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Wear a helmet, you know it makes sense
On Tue, 26 Feb 2019 07:29:10 +0000
RJH wrote: On 25/02/2019 18:20, Rob Morley wrote: On Mon, 25 Feb 2019 18:00:57 +0000 RJH wrote: [...] [...] [...] Well no, because that would be risk compensation by cyclists not drivers, and it has nothing to do with measuring passing distances. Thanks, yes, I know - but it was the only article I could find in context. Do you happen to know the one you refer to? I usually rely on others with better memory than mine to provide citations, but in this case I found it almost instantly: https://helmets.org/walkerstudy.htm |
#45
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Wear a helmet, you know it makes sense
On 27/02/2019 10:55, Rob Morley wrote:
On Tue, 26 Feb 2019 07:29:10 +0000 RJH wrote: On 25/02/2019 18:20, Rob Morley wrote: On Mon, 25 Feb 2019 18:00:57 +0000 RJH wrote: [...] [...] [...] Well no, because that would be risk compensation by cyclists not drivers, and it has nothing to do with measuring passing distances. Thanks, yes, I know - but it was the only article I could find in context. Do you happen to know the one you refer to? I usually rely on others with better memory than mine to provide citations, but in this case I found it almost instantly: https://helmets.org/walkerstudy.htm From you cite. Summary: Dr Ian Walker's measurements show that under some conditions British drivers leave 3.3 inches more passing distance if the cyclist is not wearing a helmet, and another 2.2 inches if the cyclist is wearing a wig. The average passing clearance for all three cases was more than four feet. The cyclist's position on the road changed everything, canceling the difference at times. A new study in 2013 supports our contention that Walker had misinterpreted his data. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3783373/ You agree with them that Walker's study was unsound? |
#46
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Wear a helmet, you know it makes sense
On Wed, 27 Feb 2019 12:57:50 +0000
Tom Evans wrote: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3783373/ You agree with them that Walker's study was unsound? I have no opinion, I've not followed it, I just suggested that some factors might have an effect that might not otherwise have been considered, and the existence of the study. |
#47
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Wear a helmet, you know it makes sense
On 27/02/2019 10:55, Rob Morley wrote:
On Tue, 26 Feb 2019 07:29:10 +0000 RJH wrote: On 25/02/2019 18:20, Rob Morley wrote: On Mon, 25 Feb 2019 18:00:57 +0000 RJH wrote: [...] [...] [...] Well no, because that would be risk compensation by cyclists not drivers, and it has nothing to do with measuring passing distances. Thanks, yes, I know - but it was the only article I could find in context. Do you happen to know the one you refer to? I usually rely on others with better memory than mine to provide citations, but in this case I found it almost instantly: https://helmets.org/walkerstudy.htm Interesting, thanks - the issue is shifting between academics every few years. The original has taken quite a kicking, but the original data seems to keep getting reworked. The latest (this month) supports the notion that drivers drive closer to riders with helmets - but with a number of caveats and emphases. It's not available electronically yet - so even if I could understand it (unlikely) I've not read it. I think the issue is probably best described as 'undecided'. -- Cheers, Rob |
#48
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Wear a helmet, you know it makes sense
On Wed, 27 Feb 2019 21:11:38 +0000
RJH wrote: On 27/02/2019 10:55, Rob Morley wrote: https://helmets.org/walkerstudy.htm Interesting, thanks - the issue is shifting between academics every few years. The original has taken quite a kicking, but the original data seems to keep getting reworked. The latest (this month) supports the notion that drivers drive closer to riders with helmets - but with a number of caveats and emphases. It's not available electronically yet - so even if I could understand it (unlikely) I've not read it. I think the issue is probably best described as 'undecided'. Indeed - lots of "not as obvious as common sense might suggest" issues to be considered. The best that can be done is to try to help people make an informed decision for themselves (or their children) while showing that it's far from clear and simple, particularly at a social epidemiological level. |
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