A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » General
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Red light cameras?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old April 22nd 11, 06:33 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Red light cameras?

raamman wrote:
On Apr 22, 6:33 am, " wrote:
On Apr 21, 8:44 pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Who's in favor of red light cameras? Who's against?
Do you think a cycling organization should come out in favor of them?
This is a serious question, not a troll. I know a cycling
organization whose officers are trying to decide.
- Frank Krygowski

Another vote FOR.

Lewis

*****


I have to vote against. reason why is that on a bike I always look
ahead and both ways to ensure the intersection is safe to cross, so I
am not really affected by the possibilty of a red light runner;
however, as a professional driver I am concerned about the inadequate
warning numerous intersections give going from yellow to red, at
normal traffic speed I am often placed in a possition of having to
instantly decide between slamming on the brakes or just driving
through. I realize that the former would likely result in accidents
from peopple following too closly behind and/or not paying complete
attention, especially during rush hours so I try to avoid hard stops;
but then this does subject me to a red light camera without regard to
the circumstances involved. I always pay attention to my surroundings,
for example the other day a couple of kids were at the corner waiting
as I approached on a stale green and so I slowed which caused me to be
late for the intersection when the light turned yellow. As soon as the
light turned green the kids started to cross without even glancing in
the direction of oncoming traffic- very scary indeed. But the yellow
light was hardly on long enough to allow for normal traffic to
properly stop before the green light came on permitting the kids to
begin crossing. I started slowing before the yellow came on. The
municipality put those kids in seroius danger by a short yellow light
at the intersection. The short light might be a result of some
seriously misguided thinking to catch more red light runners but is
hardly in the best interest of the community it serves.


All good points.

And as with many issues regarding police, the innocent get
ticketed along with the guilty. Good luck with that once
your plate is imaged. I had a passenger witness to my cash
toll payments on Illinois Northwest Tollway, got four camera
images with toll violation notices a week later.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Ads
  #22  
Old April 22nd 11, 06:56 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc
kolldata
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,836
Default Red light cameras?

On Apr 22, 12:33*pm, AMuzi wrote:
raamman wrote:
On Apr 22, 6:33 am, " wrote:
On Apr 21, 8:44 pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:


Who's in favor of red light cameras? *Who's against?
Do you think a cycling organization should come out in favor of them?
This is a serious question, not a troll. *I know a cycling
organization whose officers are trying to decide.
- Frank Krygowski
Another vote FOR.


Lewis


*****


I have to vote against. reason why is that on a bike I always look
ahead and both ways to ensure the intersection is safe to cross, so I
am not really affected by the possibilty of a red light runner;
however, as a professional driver I am concerned about the inadequate
warning numerous intersections give going from yellow to red, at
normal traffic speed I am often placed in a possition of having to
instantly decide between slamming on the brakes or just driving
through. I realize that the former would likely result in accidents
from peopple following too closly behind and/or not paying complete
attention, especially during rush hours so I try to avoid hard stops;
but then this does subject me to a red light camera without regard to
the circumstances involved. I always pay attention to my surroundings,
for example the other day a couple of kids were at the corner waiting
as I approached on a stale green and so I slowed which caused me to be
late for the intersection when the light turned yellow. As soon as the
light turned green the kids started to cross without even glancing in
the direction of oncoming traffic- very scary indeed. But the yellow
light was hardly on long enough to allow for normal traffic to
properly stop before the green light came on permitting the kids to
begin crossing. I started slowing before the yellow came on. The
municipality put those kids in seroius danger by a short yellow light
at the intersection. The short light might be a result of some
seriously misguided thinking to catch more red light runners but is
hardly in the best interest of the community it serves.


All good points.

And as with many issues regarding police, the innocent get
ticketed along with the guilty. Good luck with that once
your *plate is imaged. I had a passenger witness to my cash
toll payments on Illinois Northwest Tollway, got four camera
images with toll violation notices a week later.

--
Andrew Muzi
* www.yellowjersey.org/
* Open every day since 1 April, 1971- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Several times through the express contract lanes without a contract to
drive thru becasue because well geee whiz who mmmmwould know right
with traffic and GKW and never heard about it.
  #23  
Old April 22nd 11, 07:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc
Chalo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,093
Default Red light cameras?

Peter Cole wrote:

Frank Krygowski wrote:

Who's in favor of red light cameras? *Who's against?

Do you think a cycling organization should come out in favor of them?

This is a serious question, not a troll. *I know a cycling
organization whose officers are trying to decide.


Yes, no-brainer.


It's not a no-brainer. Red light cameras are the work of folks like
Lockheed-Martin, and they demonstrate "increased enforcement" by
dramatically shortening the yellow light duration at the time of
installation. It's cheating, but it's standard practice for the folks
who do this.

The corporate businesses who install these split the proceeds with the
municipalities, essentially privatizing civil fines. That's also
cheating, and SOP.

I wish car drivers were better behaved, and I wish they were more
accountable when they cause harm, but red light cameras as applied are
a scam no city should have any part of.

Chalo
  #24  
Old April 22nd 11, 07:23 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc
N8N
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 836
Default Red light cameras?

On Apr 22, 1:18*pm, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° ""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" wrote:
On 4/22/2011 9:57 AM, N8N wrote:





On Apr 21, 9:44 pm, Frank *wrote:
Who's in favor of red light cameras? *Who's against?


Do you think a cycling organization should come out in favor of them?


This is a serious question, not a troll. *I know a cycling
organization whose officers are trying to decide.


- Frank Krygowski


Definitely against, just because of the widespread practice of using
them at intersections with improperly timed yellow lights instead of
fixing the timing.


Implementations like VA where MUTCD-compliant light timing is required
for a RLC installation I don't have a real problem with, but I don't
know that they really accomplish much in those cases. *But I'm not
opposed to that specific implementation if some jurisdiction wants to
try.


nate


It would be nice if a court would set a precedent by throwing out all
the citations where the yellow light duration was too short.


That has on occasion happened, but requires someone to do their
homework and challenge their ticket. When simple engineering
oversight should have prevented the situation in the first place.

nate
  #25  
Old April 22nd 11, 07:27 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc
Duane Hebert[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 580
Default Red light cameras?

On 4/22/2011 1:33 PM, AMuzi wrote:
raamman wrote:
On Apr 22, 6:33 am, " wrote:
On Apr 21, 8:44 pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Who's in favor of red light cameras? Who's against?
Do you think a cycling organization should come out in favor of them?
This is a serious question, not a troll. I know a cycling
organization whose officers are trying to decide.
- Frank Krygowski
Another vote FOR.

Lewis

*****


I have to vote against. reason why is that on a bike I always look
ahead and both ways to ensure the intersection is safe to cross, so I
am not really affected by the possibilty of a red light runner;
however, as a professional driver I am concerned about the inadequate
warning numerous intersections give going from yellow to red, at
normal traffic speed I am often placed in a possition of having to
instantly decide between slamming on the brakes or just driving
through. I realize that the former would likely result in accidents
from peopple following too closly behind and/or not paying complete
attention, especially during rush hours so I try to avoid hard stops;
but then this does subject me to a red light camera without regard to
the circumstances involved. I always pay attention to my surroundings,
for example the other day a couple of kids were at the corner waiting
as I approached on a stale green and so I slowed which caused me to be
late for the intersection when the light turned yellow. As soon as the
light turned green the kids started to cross without even glancing in
the direction of oncoming traffic- very scary indeed. But the yellow
light was hardly on long enough to allow for normal traffic to
properly stop before the green light came on permitting the kids to
begin crossing. I started slowing before the yellow came on. The
municipality put those kids in seroius danger by a short yellow light
at the intersection. The short light might be a result of some
seriously misguided thinking to catch more red light runners but is
hardly in the best interest of the community it serves.


All good points.

And as with many issues regarding police, the innocent get ticketed
along with the guilty. Good luck with that once your plate is imaged. I
had a passenger witness to my cash toll payments on Illinois Northwest
Tollway, got four camera images with toll violation notices a week later.


I had a business stop in Aurora and flew into O'hare. Rented a car, got
directions and ended up on an exist with an untended toll booth. Didn't
have any US coins, so went through. Guys at the shop told me about the
web page where you go online and fill out a form. They billed me for it
and I paid it. Not a big deal.

Nearly a year later, got a bill from Avis for 185 bucks to pay some fine
and court costs. Told them that I paid and they went away. Not before
I told them what I thought about given out of country customers
directions and maps and not telling them that they need to pay when
EXITING the road.

Got a notice to appear in Chicago to pay a fine and court costs. So I
could either fly to Chicago and contest it or pay. Like you say, good
luck with that once your plate is imaged.


  #26  
Old April 22nd 11, 07:27 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc
Chalo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,093
Default Red light cameras?

T[...]m Sherm[...]n wrote:

N8N wrote:

Definitely against, just because of the widespread practice of using
them at intersections with improperly timed yellow lights instead of
fixing the timing.


It would be nice if a court would set a precedent by throwing out all
the citations where the yellow light duration was too short.


In most cases using war-contractor commercial red light cameras, they
are not treated like normal traffic tickets-- more like parking
tickets. They whole setup is designed for you to get a ticket by mail
and pay it by mail, with the incentive being that it doesn't appear on
your driving record if you pay it immediately without contesting.

Chalo
  #27  
Old April 22nd 11, 08:36 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc
raamman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 634
Default Red light cameras?

On Apr 22, 1:16*pm, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° ""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI
$southslope.net" wrote:
On 4/22/2011 7:00 AM, raamman wrote:

from peopple following too closly behind and/or not paying complete
attention, especially during rush hours so I try to avoid hard stops;
but then this does subject me to a red light camera without regard to
the circumstances involved. I always pay attention to my surroundings,


The companies that install the cameras usually do it at no cost in
return for a cut of citation revenue. *Therefore, the length of the
yellow light is often shortened to generate more revenue.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.


Such a practice ("in return for a cut of citation revenue"), would be
immoral
  #28  
Old April 22nd 11, 09:24 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc
N8N
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 836
Default Red light cameras?

On Apr 22, 3:36*pm, raamman wrote:
On Apr 22, 1:16*pm, Tºm Shermªn™ °_° ""twshermanREMOVE\"@THI

$southslope.net" wrote:
On 4/22/2011 7:00 AM, raamman wrote:


from peopple following too closly behind and/or not paying complete
attention, especially during rush hours so I try to avoid hard stops;
but then this does subject me to a red light camera without regard to
the circumstances involved. I always pay attention to my surroundings,


The companies that install the cameras usually do it at no cost in
return for a cut of citation revenue. *Therefore, the length of the
yellow light is often shortened to generate more revenue.


--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.


Such a practice ("in return for a cut of citation revenue"), would be
immoral


no ****. but it's the way these contacts are usually structured.

nate
  #29  
Old April 22nd 11, 11:20 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc
JG
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 295
Default Red light cameras?

To address the original question, it seems like a bad idea for a
cycling organization to take any position on it. It provokes
emotional responses, and there's no evidence that cyclists are
particularly vulnerable to red light runners.
  #30  
Old April 22nd 11, 11:47 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech,rec.bicycles.misc
Tºm Shermªn™ °_°[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,270
Default Red light cameras?

On 4/22/2011 12:33 PM, A. Muzi wrote:
[...]
And as with many issues regarding police, the innocent get ticketed
along with the guilty. Good luck with that once your plate is imaged. I
had a passenger witness to my cash toll payments on Illinois Northwest
Tollway, got four camera images with toll violation notices a week later.


Do you not have an I-Pass because every time you go through a toll the
time and location is stored somewhere on a Illinois Tollway Authority
server?

In the pre-I-Pass days, I used to pre-count pennys and use them at the
toll booths.

--
Tºm Shermªn - 42.435731,-83.985007
I am a vehicular cyclist.
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My prayers for red-light cameras have been answered! Paul - xxx[_2_] Recumbent Biking 7 September 29th 10 06:15 PM
Red Light Cameras could be trouble for Bicyclists Rick[_10_] Techniques 22 February 4th 10 01:19 AM
Recommendation for 700c x 42-45 tire for light off-road (fire roads,light trail use) SMS General 4 August 12th 05 06:26 AM
Recommendation for 700c x 42-45 tire for light off-road (fire roads,light trail use) SMS Techniques 9 August 12th 05 06:26 AM
FA: Selle San Marco Concor Light. Light being a relative term. Greg Achtem Marketplace 0 December 23rd 04 06:53 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.