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How can I blacken stainless steel spokes?



 
 
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  #111  
Old May 16th 09, 11:50 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jim beam[_5_]
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Posts: 941
Default How can I blacken stainless steel spokes?

_ wrote:
On Sat, 16 May 2009 12:14:51 -0700, jim beam wrote:

_ wrote:
On Sat, 16 May 2009 09:11:18 -0700, jim beam wrote:


Without reading anything further I would hazard a guess that the size of
these domains, and the ease with which their orientation can be changed has
a great deal to do with it. Alloy steels obviously vary in their
structure, and the interactions between the constituents must easily be
complex enough that a simple "A is magnetic, B is magnetic, A+B should be
magnetic as well" may not be what is actually happening.
in other words, you haven't a ****ing clue.
It'd be simple enough to find out - but we already know that you prefer to
rely on your 'experience' rather than published facts and statistics; have
you forgotten your "there are no two-strokes with camshafts" debacle?

how does one small thing outside someone's otherwise extensive
experience compare to some jackass that lies about using a magnet?
[rhetorical]


"jim", calm down - it's not that you were wrong, it's that you denied and
denied and denied that you were wrong; insulted people who pointed out that
you were wrong, started warping your claims, asserted 'special' experience
that meant that despite the stream of contrary facts posted you *were*
*not* *wrong*, you just *weren't*, and the people saying you were were
nothing but "idiots" and "retards" - you see?

As for "some jackass that lies about using a magnet" - just which one of
the three different posters that tested your claim and found it to be
untrue do you mean?


amazing - a bunch of people can make posts with comments to the
corroborative, yet you [apparently] read them as the negative. you're
either stupid [and not very accomplished at deceit] or delusional.
Ads
  #112  
Old May 16th 09, 11:51 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jim beam[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 941
Default How can I blacken stainless steel spokes?

_ wrote:
On Sat, 16 May 2009 12:07:34 -0700, jim beam wrote:

wrote:
On May 16, 9:38�am, jim beam wrote:
wrote:

Anyway, spokes are weakly magnetic at best.
not so. �you should try a larger sample. �include butted spokes in your
testing.
I have. 12 wheels wasn't large enough?

but how many different brands of spoke? and what was their butting
method? drawn or hammered will have the martensitic transition. ground
spokes won't have that.


Drawing is not just used to form the butts - it is the usual method of
forming wire of all kinds; in sucessive stages from bar to wire as thin as
that iuse in cycle spokes. If drawing (a form of cold-working) has an
effect of the magnetic properties of stainless steel, it should make little
difference whether the cold-working stops with a straight-guage-spoke or
continues to a butted one.


oh, how convenient! just miss out the facts about the heat treatments
used between the drawing stages, then you have a delusion! or just call
it ignorance. either work!



And has been pointed out to you, those spokes you claim to be ground are no
longer (nor have been form some years); and the brands measured by the
posters on this newsgroup include a great many spokes not of that brand at
all.


so they don't exist then. glad we cleared that up!



I think this is yet another of the classic "jim beam" attempts to avoid
being yet again embarrassed, consisting of the following stages:

"(2) Assert statement is correct when contrary facts are pointed out.
(3) Impugn the intelligence of those people who point out facts contrary
to his assertions.
(4) Start warping claims to look less wrong as evidence mounts against."

Of course, if "jim beam" doesn't want people to point out that what he
posts is wrong, the solution is simple.

Stop posting stuff that's wrong.


hey dude, how does this life of delusion impact your ability to earn a
living? how do co-workers treat you when you they find they can't rely
on a single ****ing word you say?
  #113  
Old May 16th 09, 11:53 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jim beam[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 941
Default How can I blacken stainless steel spokes?

wrote:
On May 16, 2:12 pm, jim beam wrote:
_ wrote:
On Sat, 16 May 2009 09:38:30 -0700, jim beam wrote:
Anyway, spokes are weakly magnetic at best.
not so. you should try a larger sample. include butted spokes in your
testing.
You've been given the results from three different people, 24 different
sets of spokes. Assuming 36 spokes per wheel (the wheels I tested, even the
Buchannan-spoked ones had 36 spokes) that's getting close to a thousand
spokes, from different manufacturers - and they *included* butted spokes.
A few of the stainless spokes were, at most, "slightly" or "weakly"
magnetic.
Hardly a ringing endorsement of your assertion that they change from
austenitic to martensitic through cold-working; but it is no surprise to
find you glueing your arguments together with distortions of what others
actually post.

dude, how ****ing dishonest can you be?


*Never* underestimate the dishonesty of the creature posting as
"jtaylor"!


i have to confess, i wouldn't have believed it until i saw it. truly
spectacular.




you've been given the
martensitic technical cite. and you've got corroboration from others.
yet you just can't man up to the facts. just **** off and hang out with
the other circus clowns and ignorants.


  #114  
Old May 17th 09, 04:13 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default How the subtleties of materials distinguish the engineers fromthe librarians, was, How can I blacken stainless steel spokes?

On 16 May, 17:45, jim beam wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
On May 15, 4:44 pm, _
wrote:
wrote:
I went in the back room and discovered easy access
to 13 (!) wheels. Out come the magnets. One of the
wheels had galvanized spokes and of course the magnet
was strongly attracted to those. A useful control.
Of the remaining 12 wheels with stainless spokes, the kitchen
magnet was very weakly attracted to 2, and not at all
to the remaining 10. The 2 that were slightly magnetic
both had DT 2.0/1.8mm butted spokes. However, I also
tried other wheels with DT butted and non-butted spokes
and found almost no attraction. A few wheels with Asahi and
Wheelsmith stainless spokes had no attraction.
Wheelsmith butted spokes have an obvious transition
diameter where the swaging takes effect and I tested that
part to see if the cold working had rendered them
ferromagnetic at that particular spot. Nope.
I then went back with a very strong magnet removed from
a hard drive, and confirmed that two wheels with DT spokes
were a little magnetic, the rest of the DT spokes were
slightly magnetic, and the Asahi/Wheelsmith spokes weren't
magnetic at all.
For comparison, I tested some other household goods.
Most stainless pans and my old film developing tanks are
non- or very weakly ferromagnetic. The only stainless items
I found to be strongly ferromagnetic were some
kitchen utensils, silverware, and knives, plus a climbing
implement.
All of which confirms that cycle spokes are not, in the main, martensitic,
even when cold-worked - at best a few were found to be "a little" or
"slightly" magnetic, indicating little change from austenitic steel.


Which of course means that "jim beams"s claim that if you put stainless
spokes in a kitchen oven they will come out austenitic is sort of correct -
because they were austenitic to begin with.


Hey ho.


And we should distinguish the effects of different levels of applied
heat. It is one thing to stick a spoke in boiling oil, or to make it
redhot and quench it in cold oil, and quite another to harden paint on
a spoke in an oven at a low temperature. This reflects one of the main
areas of low credibility when dealing with the anonymous "jim beam",
that, like too many inexperienced people who merely quote textbooks,
he has an on-off switch, that he insists every case is always either-
or, and that thus he altogether misses out on the subtleties of
materials and their applications.


Andre Jute
It is always in the subtleties of engineering that the beauty resides


andre, you're just a pig-ignorant poseur.


corn oil and a candle blackens spokes. no weakening effect.
  #115  
Old May 17th 09, 05:25 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Tim McNamara
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 6,945
Default How can I blacken stainless steel spokes?

In article
,
Jay Beattie wrote:

On May 16, 2:45*pm, Tim McNamara wrote:
In article ,





*_ wrote:
On Sat, 16 May 2009 12:14:51 -0700, jim beam wrote:


_ wrote:
On Sat, 16 May 2009 09:11:18 -0700, jim beam wrote:


Without reading anything further I would hazard a guess that
the size of these domains, and the ease with which their
orientation can be changed has a great deal to do with it.
*Alloy steels obviously vary in their structure, and the
interactions between the constituents must easily be complex
enough that a simple "A is magnetic, B is magnetic, A+B
should be magnetic as well" may not be what is actually
happening.
in other words, you haven't a ****ing clue.


It'd be simple enough to find out - but we already know that
you prefer to rely on your 'experience' rather than published
facts and statistics; have you forgotten your "there are no
two-strokes with camshafts" debacle?


how does one small thing outside someone's otherwise extensive
experience compare to some jackass that lies about using a
magnet? [rhetorical]


"jim", calm down - it's not that you were wrong, it's that you
denied and denied and denied that you were wrong; insulted people
who pointed out that you were wrong, started warping your claims,
asserted 'special' experience that meant that despite the stream
of contrary facts posted you *were* *not* *wrong*, you just
*weren't*, and the people saying you were were nothing but
"idiots" and "retards" - you see?


In other words, he again followed his typical behavioral pattern as
previously described.

As for "some jackass that lies about using a magnet" - just which
one of the three different posters that tested your claim and
found it to be untrue do you mean?


LOL. *"One small thing" like thousands of two stroke engines with
camshafts in all sorts of different applications. *Even Toyota is
developing a two stroke DOHC engine. *As far as I can tell, "jim
beam's" extensive experience with two strokes appears to be working
in a lawnmower repair shop.- Hide quoted text -


Hey, don't put down lawn mower repair guys. I remember standing
around with a bunch of high priced engineers in a case I was
defending for an outboard engine manufacturer. Everyone was
scratching their heads about why the engine malfunctioned. The guy
who figured it out first was some outboard mechanic employed at a
local boat dealership.


Good point. The practical knowledge acquired from getting one's hands
dirty can be very valuable indeed.
  #116  
Old May 17th 09, 12:44 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
_[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,228
Default How can I blacken stainless steel spokes?

On Sat, 16 May 2009 23:25:33 -0500, Tim McNamara wrote:


how does one small thing outside someone's otherwise extensive
experience compare to some jackass that lies about using a
magnet? [rhetorical]

"jim", calm down - it's not that you were wrong, it's that you
denied and denied and denied that you were wrong; insulted people
who pointed out that you were wrong, started warping your claims,
asserted 'special' experience that meant that despite the stream
of contrary facts posted you *were* *not* *wrong*, you just
*weren't*, and the people saying you were were nothing but
"idiots" and "retards" - you see?

In other words, he again followed his typical behavioral pattern as
previously described.

As for "some jackass that lies about using a magnet" - just which
one of the three different posters that tested your claim and
found it to be untrue do you mean?

LOL. *"One small thing" like thousands of two stroke engines with
camshafts in all sorts of different applications. *Even Toyota is
developing a two stroke DOHC engine. *As far as I can tell, "jim
beam's" extensive experience with two strokes appears to be working
in a lawnmower repair shop.- Hide quoted text -


Hey, don't put down lawn mower repair guys. I remember standing
around with a bunch of high priced engineers in a case I was
defending for an outboard engine manufacturer. Everyone was
scratching their heads about why the engine malfunctioned. The guy
who figured it out first was some outboard mechanic employed at a
local boat dealership.


Good point. The practical knowledge acquired from getting one's hands
dirty can be very valuable indeed.


No one should doubt that. The problem here is not so - it is instead that
we have a poster who's posting stuff that's wrong, and defending that stuff
with a *mouth* that is dirty.
  #117  
Old May 17th 09, 12:52 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
_[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,228
Default How can I blacken stainless steel spokes?

On Sat, 16 May 2009 13:20:31 -0700, jim beam wrote:

_ wrote:
On Sat, 16 May 2009 12:12:36 -0700, jim beam wrote:


You've been given the results from three different people, 24 different
sets of spokes. Assuming 36 spokes per wheel (the wheels I tested, even the
Buchannan-spoked ones had 36 spokes) that's getting close to a thousand
spokes, from different manufacturers - and they *included* butted spokes.

A few of the stainless spokes were, at most, "slightly" or "weakly"
magnetic.

Hardly a ringing endorsement of your assertion that they change from
austenitic to martensitic through cold-working; but it is no surprise to
find you glueing your arguments together with distortions of what others
actually post.
dude, how ****ing dishonest can you be? you've been given the
martensitic technical cite. and you've got corroboration from others.
yet you just can't man up to the facts. just **** off and hang out with
the other circus clowns and ignorants.


Um, would those be the people who have tested something close to a thousand
spokes and not found what you claim they should?


a thousand???!!! keep going dude! just add a couple more zeroes while
you're in fantasy land!


Um lets do the arithmetic v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y...

One poster (me) tested 7 wheels.
Another poster tested 13 wheels
Another poster tested 4 wheels

Adding them up gives 24 wheels.

Assuming each wheel has 36 spokes (mine did, and this is the most common
number for cycle wheels) we get

36+36+36+36+36+36+36+36+36+36+36+36+36+36+36+36+36 +36+36+36+36+36+36+36

which is 864.

Which is, in round figures, "close to a thousand".


Have you been taking math lessons from Bill Sornson?


  #118  
Old May 17th 09, 03:12 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jim beam[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 941
Default How can I blacken stainless steel spokes?

_ wrote:
On Sat, 16 May 2009 13:20:31 -0700, jim beam wrote:

_ wrote:
On Sat, 16 May 2009 12:12:36 -0700, jim beam wrote:


You've been given the results from three different people, 24 different
sets of spokes. Assuming 36 spokes per wheel (the wheels I tested, even the
Buchannan-spoked ones had 36 spokes) that's getting close to a thousand
spokes, from different manufacturers - and they *included* butted spokes.

A few of the stainless spokes were, at most, "slightly" or "weakly"
magnetic.

Hardly a ringing endorsement of your assertion that they change from
austenitic to martensitic through cold-working; but it is no surprise to
find you glueing your arguments together with distortions of what others
actually post.
dude, how ****ing dishonest can you be? you've been given the
martensitic technical cite. and you've got corroboration from others.
yet you just can't man up to the facts. just **** off and hang out with
the other circus clowns and ignorants.
Um, would those be the people who have tested something close to a thousand
spokes and not found what you claim they should?

a thousand???!!! keep going dude! just add a couple more zeroes while
you're in fantasy land!


Um lets do the arithmetic v-e-r-y s-l-o-w-l-y...

One poster (me) tested 7 wheels.
Another poster tested 13 wheels
Another poster tested 4 wheels

Adding them up gives 24 wheels.

Assuming each wheel has 36 spokes (mine did, and this is the most common
number for cycle wheels) we get

36+36+36+36+36+36+36+36+36+36+36+36+36+36+36+36+36 +36+36+36+36+36+36+36

which is 864.

Which is, in round figures, "close to a thousand".


Have you been taking math lessons from Bill Sornson?




er, apart from laughably stretching your point beyond all credibility,
you forgot to mention that those testers reported magnetism in
contradiction of your bull****...
  #119  
Old May 17th 09, 03:14 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jim beam[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 941
Default How can I blacken stainless steel spokes?

_ wrote:
On Sat, 16 May 2009 23:25:33 -0500, Tim McNamara wrote:


how does one small thing outside someone's otherwise extensive
experience compare to some jackass that lies about using a
magnet? [rhetorical]
"jim", calm down - it's not that you were wrong, it's that you
denied and denied and denied that you were wrong; insulted people
who pointed out that you were wrong, started warping your claims,
asserted 'special' experience that meant that despite the stream
of contrary facts posted you *were* *not* *wrong*, you just
*weren't*, and the people saying you were were nothing but
"idiots" and "retards" - you see?
In other words, he again followed his typical behavioral pattern as
previously described.

As for "some jackass that lies about using a magnet" - just which
one of the three different posters that tested your claim and
found it to be untrue do you mean?
LOL. �"One small thing" like thousands of two stroke engines with
camshafts in all sorts of different applications. �Even Toyota is
developing a two stroke DOHC engine. �As far as I can tell, "jim
beam's" extensive experience with two strokes appears to be working
in a lawnmower repair shop.- Hide quoted text -
Hey, don't put down lawn mower repair guys. I remember standing
around with a bunch of high priced engineers in a case I was
defending for an outboard engine manufacturer. Everyone was
scratching their heads about why the engine malfunctioned. The guy
who figured it out first was some outboard mechanic employed at a
local boat dealership.

Good point. The practical knowledge acquired from getting one's hands
dirty can be very valuable indeed.


No one should doubt that. The problem here is not so - it is instead that
we have a poster who's posting stuff that's wrong, and defending that stuff
with a *mouth* that is dirty.


that's your problem jtaylor - you don't like that someone has the gonads
to stand up to your bull****. you flat-out ****ing lie, you **** in the
knowledge pool, yet you have the temerity to complain when called on
it!!! the answer is real ****ing simple, so simple, even timmy the
retard can understand it - either don't bull****, in which case you'll
not have a problem, or go ahead and bull**** and "enjoy" the consequences!

tip of the day: if you /are/ going to lie abut something, take a leaf
out of andre jute's book and make it stuff that's hard to corroborate.
stuff that anybody can test at home, or for which contradictory
scientific cites can be dug up on google in seconds, just expose your
dumb lying ass for what it truly is.
  #120  
Old May 17th 09, 03:15 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jim beam[_5_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 941
Default How the subtleties of materials distinguish the engineers fromthe librarians, was, How can I blacken stainless steel spokes?

wrote:
On 16 May, 17:45, jim beam wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
On May 15, 4:44 pm, _
wrote:
wrote:
I went in the back room and discovered easy access
to 13 (!) wheels. Out come the magnets. One of the
wheels had galvanized spokes and of course the magnet
was strongly attracted to those. A useful control.
Of the remaining 12 wheels with stainless spokes, the kitchen
magnet was very weakly attracted to 2, and not at all
to the remaining 10. The 2 that were slightly magnetic
both had DT 2.0/1.8mm butted spokes. However, I also
tried other wheels with DT butted and non-butted spokes
and found almost no attraction. A few wheels with Asahi and
Wheelsmith stainless spokes had no attraction.
Wheelsmith butted spokes have an obvious transition
diameter where the swaging takes effect and I tested that
part to see if the cold working had rendered them
ferromagnetic at that particular spot. Nope.
I then went back with a very strong magnet removed from
a hard drive, and confirmed that two wheels with DT spokes
were a little magnetic, the rest of the DT spokes were
slightly magnetic, and the Asahi/Wheelsmith spokes weren't
magnetic at all.
For comparison, I tested some other household goods.
Most stainless pans and my old film developing tanks are
non- or very weakly ferromagnetic. The only stainless items
I found to be strongly ferromagnetic were some
kitchen utensils, silverware, and knives, plus a climbing
implement.
All of which confirms that cycle spokes are not, in the main, martensitic,
even when cold-worked - at best a few were found to be "a little" or
"slightly" magnetic, indicating little change from austenitic steel.
Which of course means that "jim beams"s claim that if you put stainless
spokes in a kitchen oven they will come out austenitic is sort of correct -
because they were austenitic to begin with.
Hey ho.
And we should distinguish the effects of different levels of applied
heat. It is one thing to stick a spoke in boiling oil, or to make it
redhot and quench it in cold oil, and quite another to harden paint on
a spoke in an oven at a low temperature. This reflects one of the main
areas of low credibility when dealing with the anonymous "jim beam",
that, like too many inexperienced people who merely quote textbooks,
he has an on-off switch, that he insists every case is always either-
or, and that thus he altogether misses out on the subtleties of
materials and their applications.
Andre Jute
It is always in the subtleties of engineering that the beauty resides

andre, you're just a pig-ignorant poseur.


corn oil and a candle blackens spokes. no weakening effect.


you tested? what was HRc before and after?

 




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