Comeback from doping... possible?

On Jun 9, 7:19*pm, wrote:
I'm not certain, it might have been ricco
who described how nice it was to glide along with the pack and look
around and see all the suffering faces- if he describes gliding along
while others are suffering he is not feeling pain to any extent.

Until the race or stage gets whittled down to the talented, the
dopers, and the talented dopers. Then everybody hurts and maybe
"doping" enables "the doper" to keep going even though he and all the
rest are well past threshold or whatever you want to call it when,
left to their own devices, the legs would just stop going around.

merckx (double sic) and the hour, he said it was the most
painful thing he had ever done, and I don't doubt him that one bit.

Well, he never did it again-- but then, he didn't have to, did he?
--D-y

PS: Does it hurt when you use the caps key, so you don't, except for
"I", when It's Important?

raamman wrote:
you seem to misunderstand my point- try reading it again and see if
that helps. I am not talking about power, I am talking about pain-
specifically the pain required to achieve - that the doper is one who
has cracked and seeks to achieve without the painful price. I am
suggesting that people are capable of greater effort, but that it is a
conscious decision to conclude that effort prematurely due to the pain
such exertion causes. I suggest heart rate monitoring as a common
means one can test this idea

Donald Munro wrote:
Ah, so you're suggesting they're all using crystal meth and PCP since
EPO would have no effect on perceived pain ?

raamman wrote:
no, I am suggesting you are a clown who needs to interject nonsense into
the discussion.

I would suggest you have an intimate knowledge of the interior lining of
your own anal canal.

marco wrote:
Have you given up all caffeine and ...gasp!!... alcohol? (Side story: I
remember when you won the crit for 35+ masters nationals in Tallahassee
and when the announcer asked "what's next?" you responded that you were
going to go get a beer...) Anyway, I have a teammate who is dealing with
the same heart issue and he's had some success by giving up caffeine and
alcohol. Personally, my head would explode if faced with that option.

Carl Sundquist wrote:
I abstained for about 90 days. The first two weeks were the toughest, as
(like a child) I felt that I was being unfairly denied something that I
enjoyed. After that it was pretty easy. Unfortunately, it didn't seem to
make a difference.

Perhaps you should try cutting out sex too.

wrote:
On Jun 10, 12:23 am, Kyle Legate wrote:
wrote:
pain is why I don't get on my bike and make an effort to get my hrm to
show me a max that is one beat higher than what I am used to- it's
hard, it hurts and I don't want to cross that line even though I might
get a better time and that pushing myself to that extent shouldn't
harm me- that's my breaking point even though I think I could go a few
beats higher, much less just one. I think the same deal basically
applies to just about anyone.
No, you're just weak. I have the impression that I can suffer more than
when I was younger, because I have developed the mental toughness
required to say "the pain is temporary, **** the pain". Hence the
bizarrely high heart rate I quoted earlier in the thread, which is a few
beats higher than I ever recorded when I was younger and racing.

you are proving my point

I don't think your point is what you think it is.

Bob Schwartz

On Jun 10, 1:28*am, --D-y wrote:
On Jun 9, 7:19*pm, wrote:

I'm not certain, it might have been ricco
who described how nice it was to glide along with the pack and look
around and see all the suffering faces- if he describes gliding along
while others are suffering he is not feeling pain to any extent.

Until the race or stage gets whittled down to the talented, the
dopers, and the talented dopers. Then everybody hurts and maybe
"doping" enables "the doper" to keep going even though he and all the
rest are well past threshold or whatever you want to call it when,
left to their own devices, the legs would just stop going around.

merckx (double sic) and the hour, he said it was the most
painful thing he had ever done, and I don't doubt him that one bit.

Well, he never did it again-- but then, he didn't have to, did he?
--D-y

PS: *Does it hurt when you use the caps key, so you don't, except for
"I", when It's Important?

I use caps to yell

Jim Feeley wrote:
On 6/9/09 7:50 PM, in article , "Carl Sundquist"
wrote:

Yeah, I am. It started affecting me on the bike in August of '07 in a
relatively minor way. Ran a slew of tests that Fall, but it seemed to
go away after resting in the off season. Was scheduled to have an
ablation in March of last year, but between not having much
recurrence, some of the risks of radio frequency (burning) ablation,
and not keen on a 6 month regimen of Coumadin/Warfarin, I chose to
postpone the procedure.

Carl,

I take 8mg of Warfarin each day. My cardiologist said I shouldn't ride. But
my hematologist, who used to ride and is a prof at UCSF, said cardiologists
always overestimate the effects of Warfarin/Coumadin. He said there is some
real risk with riding while taking Warfarin, but that if riding is a big
part of my life (which it is), I need to decide if the risk is worth it. His
key suggestions include:

-Don't race.

-Don't descend super quickly.
(But climb as fast as you can)

-Don't do field sprints on group rides.
(If there's a small group of people I trust on a group ride, I will
sometimes lead out a sprint, though)

-Don't ride with or near poor bike handlers.

-Ride with thicker, bigger tires to reduce chance of sudden front blow-out.
(I use 700x25 Continental Grand Prix 4000 or 4 Season tires).

-Don't ride in the rain.

-If I crash, hit my head, and see stars, get to a hospital right away.

-Wear a medical ID (I do that all the time, even off the bike).


I can still ride what I think of as fast, and I still have fun. I am taking
a bit more risk, but since I ride with care, I'm willing to accept the risk.
Most of the time...I have dropped out of group rides when I think someone is
too sketchy...


Good luck with your treatment. Hope this helps at least a little...

Jim
PS- I don't check messages sent directly to this email address. Too much
spam. But I'm not hard to find on the internet...

Thanks. I have a local riding buddy that was on Coumadin for the meat of
the season last year due to DVT, so what you said matches a lot of what
he did.

In article
,
ronaldo_jeremiah wrote:

And, to sum it all up, which you are right that there will almost
certainly never be a perfect Truth Machine, the future of lie
detection is coming, and it will be way better than that F. Lee Bailey
nonsense. Brain imaging technology directed to the portions of the
brain dedicated to subterfuge will be very hard to defeat.

That is a physically invasive procedure, yes?
Markers are injected into the blood stream,
and cross the blood-brain barrier, yes?

--
Michael Press

In article ,
Donald Munro wrote:

marco wrote:
Have you given up all caffeine and ...gasp!!... alcohol? (Side story: I
remember when you won the crit for 35+ masters nationals in Tallahassee
and when the announcer asked "what's next?" you responded that you were
going to go get a beer...) Anyway, I have a teammate who is dealing with
the same heart issue and he's had some success by giving up caffeine and
alcohol. Personally, my head would explode if faced with that option.

Carl Sundquist wrote:
I abstained for about 90 days. The first two weeks were the toughest, as
(like a child) I felt that I was being unfairly denied something that I
enjoyed. After that it was pretty easy. Unfortunately, it didn't seem to
make a difference.

Perhaps you should try cutting out sex too.

Of course you meant abstain from sexual relations.

--
Michael Press

Michael Press wrote:
Of course you meant abstain from sexual relations.

Only rednecks do it with their relations.

On Jun 11, 3:17*pm, Michael Press wrote:
In article
,

*ronaldo_jeremiah wrote:
And, to sum it all up, which you are right that there will almost
certainly never be a perfect Truth Machine, the future of lie
detection is coming, and it will be way better than that F. Lee Bailey
nonsense. *Brain imaging technology directed to the portions of the
brain dedicated to subterfuge will be very hard to defeat.

That is a physically invasive procedure, yes? *
Markers are injected into the blood stream,
and cross the blood-brain barrier, yes?

Not necessarily. The future may be optical imaging of the brain and
its activity. This is so new it isn't even in the textbooks yet, but
I was lucky to spend some time hanging out in the first lab ever set
up to do this type of neuroimaging. It turns out light passes through
active neural tissue in a slightly different way than it passes
through passive neural tissue, due to the electrical properties of
polarization and depolarization phases of neuronal activity. You can
take advantage of this to assess cortical (outermost layer) brain
activity. It's currently very complicated and expensive, but you
don't have to put anything into the person, other than light.
Fundamentally it is no different than shining a light through your
fingertips and noticing that some of the light passes through, making
the other side look pink. Except, in this case, you shine a whole
bunch of lights into the person's head, using fiber optics, and
measure many different points on the head where the light is coming
back out after passing through and being refracted by the tissues.
Tiny changes in the arrival time and intensity of the light can tell
you which parts of the cortex are working.

There are other non-invasive techniques that could also become valid
"lie detectors" down the road. I guess my point was that it is
inevitable for lie detection to get substantially better in our
lifetime, thanks to advances in neuroscience.

-rj