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Another doctor questions helmet research
An article in the Irish Medical Times written by a cycling doctor
questions the validity of commonly quoted helmet studies: http://www.imt.ie/displayarticle.asp...724&NS=1&SID=1 |
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Another doctor questions helmet research
I don't get why anyone points this out any more. If you want to wear a
helmet wear one. If not don't. If you live in a country where it's the law then talk to your legislators media and acquaintances. Statistics have nothing to do with it at all. I could care less if I have a 1 in 440 chance of killing myself with a helmet on or off. If you think that if you hitting your head with your helmet off will hurt less than hitting it with the helmet on, please do so repeatedly. It's not brain sugery you know. Or is it? steve In article , JFJones wrote: http://www.imt.ie/displayarticle.asp...724&NS=1&SID=1 |
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Another doctor questions helmet research
"steve" wrote in message ... I don't get why anyone points this out any more. If you want to wear a helmet wear one. If not don't. If you live in a country where it's the law then talk to your legislators media and acquaintances. Statistics have nothing to do with it at all. I could care less if I have a 1 in 440 chance of killing myself with a helmet on or off. If you think that if you hitting your head with your helmet off will hurt less than hitting it with the helmet on, please do so repeatedly. It's not brain sugery you know. Or is it? steve Very well said, Steve. Bob C. |
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Another doctor questions helmet research
On Fri, 06 Aug 2004 20:21:22 GMT, steve wrote:
I don't get why anyone points this out any more. If you want to wear a helmet wear one. If not don't. If you live in a country where it's the law then talk to your legislators media and acquaintances. ISTM that non-helmet-wearers see entire nations of compulsory-helmet-wearers as a threat to their civil liberties. That's why they rail against it, and compile stats designed to show it in a bad light. But data can be selected and massaged to show anything, of course. -- bpo gallery at http://www4.tpgi.com.au/users/mvw1/bpo |
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Another doctor questions helmet research
steve wrote:
[regarding http://www.imt.ie/displayarticle.asp...724&NS=1&SID=1 ] I don't get why anyone points this out any more. If you want to wear a helmet wear one. If not don't. If you live in a country where it's the law then talk to your legislators media and acquaintances. Statistics have nothing to do with it at all. I could care less if I have a 1 in 440 chance of killing myself with a helmet on or off. If you think that if you hitting your head with your helmet off will hurt less than hitting it with the helmet on, please do so repeatedly. It's not brain sugery you know. Or is it? People point this out because there's a tremendous amount of misinformation being published by helmet promoters. The misinformation makes people believe that bicycling is very dangerous, and that helmets are very effective. Both ideas are wrong. When people believe those mistaken ideas, people cycle less, and legislators are easily convinced to make cycling illegal unless a helmet is worn. And getting legislators to rescind an action based on false premises is much harder than Steve seems to think. (WMD invasion, anyone?) Furthermore, because of the misinformation, cyclists who are injured through no fault of their own get attacked by motorist's lawyers for doing something as "dangerous" as riding a bike, or for doing it with the wrong style hat. Anyone is free to wear a helmet if they choose, even if it's only because they don't understand statistics. But it does seem a shame that such a well-reasoned, well-documented letter as the one at http://www.imt.ie/displayarticle.asp...724&NS=1&SID=1 would draw such hostile, unthinking reaction. -- --------------------+ Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com, replace with cc.ysu dot edu] |
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Another doctor questions helmet research
On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 11:37:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: Anyone is free to wear a helmet if they choose, even if it's only because they don't understand statistics. But it does seem a shame that such a well-reasoned, well-documented letter as the one at http://www.imt.ie/displayarticle.asp...724&NS=1&SID=1 would draw such hostile, unthinking reaction. Postmodern society pays lipservice to rationality, but worships at the altar of avoiding pain. No weight of statistics nor empirical data will convince scared people to go out and do what they've been told not to do. That requires an irrational act of will. My father won't ride his bicycle in the street because he's scared--no matter how persuasive I am with the statistical arguments for accident rates, visibility, etcetera. I should make a full disclosure of my hypocrisy: I wear a helmet for protection not entirely related to impact: it's big and white, and fairly bright in most lighting conditions. I'd like to think it makes me a bit more visible. And should anything bad happen to me, I'll never get the miscreant to pay out unless I have one on, since otherwise I'd be vulnerable to charges of contributory negligence. All the rational argumentation in the world is for naught when you're in front of ignorant people who are (even temporarily) empowered to deny you justice. =-Luigi |
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Another doctor questions helmet research
"Luigi de Guzman" wrote in message
... My father won't ride his bicycle in the street because he's scared--no matter how persuasive I am with the statistical arguments for accident rates, visibility, etcetera. I should make a full disclosure of my hypocrisy: I wear a helmet for protection not entirely related to impact: it's big and white, and fairly bright in most lighting conditions. I'd like to think it makes me a bit more visible. And should anything bad happen to me, I'll never get the miscreant to pay out unless I have one on, since otherwise I'd be vulnerable to charges of contributory negligence. All the rational argumentation in the world is for naught when you're in front of ignorant people who are (even temporarily) empowered to deny you justice. Seeing as how people in general are just as convinced that riding a bicycle on the street is suicide, do we have to worry about "contributory negligence" because we were riding a bike? Doug |
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Another doctor questions helmet research
Michael Warner wrote:
ISTM that non-helmet-wearers see entire nations of compulsory-helmet-wearers as a threat to their civil liberties. I see such people as more a threat to bicycling. It disturbs me greatly when people portray cycling as SO dangerous that it's foolish to take a neighborhood spin without protective headgear. It disturbs me more when people believe that, and cycle less because of it. That's why they rail against it, and compile stats designed to show it in a bad light. But data can be selected and massaged to show anything, of course. Sigh When someone makes that "data can show anything" argument, I lament for the state of scientific education. Certainly, one can _say_ data can show anything, just as one can say the sun rises in the west. One must examine the data and conclusions and resulting discussions to make an informed judgement about what's true and what's not. Some issues are pretty definite. A person saying the sun rises in the west is easily proven wrong, and the discussion doesn't last long. Other issues (like this one) are more complicated, and require more thinking to understand. Unfortunately, there's a large pool of people who stand to make money by selling helmets, and another large pool of "safety missionaries" bent on having everyone conform to their idea of risk. There's also a big number of True Believers, who latch onto the first idea that comes their way and never question it. These people greatly outnumber the pool of people who love cycling, and have the scientific competentence to see through the bull****. Here's an example of some of the discussion, regarding a pro-helmet paper published in a well-respected journal - but rife with mistakes. Read on only if you're math-competent. http://ip.bmjjournals.com/cgi/eletters/9/3/266 [Note that the page shows letters in reverse cronological order. IOW, start reading at the bottom.] -- Frank Krygowski [To reply, remove rodent and vegetable dot com. Substitute cc dot ysu dot edu] |
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Another doctor questions helmet research
On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 17:38:13 GMT, "Doug Purdy" wrote:
"Luigi de Guzman" wrote in message .. . My father won't ride his bicycle in the street because he's scared--no matter how persuasive I am with the statistical arguments for accident rates, visibility, etcetera. I should make a full disclosure of my hypocrisy: I wear a helmet for protection not entirely related to impact: it's big and white, and fairly bright in most lighting conditions. I'd like to think it makes me a bit more visible. And should anything bad happen to me, I'll never get the miscreant to pay out unless I have one on, since otherwise I'd be vulnerable to charges of contributory negligence. All the rational argumentation in the world is for naught when you're in front of ignorant people who are (even temporarily) empowered to deny you justice. Seeing as how people in general are just as convinced that riding a bicycle on the street is suicide, do we have to worry about "contributory negligence" because we were riding a bike? Depends on how good the other guys lawyer is. "There he was balanced on two wheels, just asking for it." "Have you ever fallen without being hit by my client?" Wait for answer.... "Well there ya go." "My client's dog could not have bitten him - he is toothless and was tied up in the backyard. Furthermore, my client does not own a dog." Ron |
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Another doctor questions helmet research
On Sat, 07 Aug 2004 12:37:26 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote:
steve wrote: [regarding http://www.imt.ie/displayarticle.asp...724&NS=1&SID=1 ] I don't get why anyone points this out any more. If you want to wear a helmet wear one. If not don't. If you live in a country where it's the law then talk to your legislators media and acquaintances. Statistics have nothing to do with it at all. I could care less if I have a 1 in 440 chance of killing myself with a helmet on or off. If you think that if you hitting your head with your helmet off will hurt less than hitting it with the helmet on, please do so repeatedly. It's not brain sugery you know. Or is it? People point this out because there's a tremendous amount of misinformation being published by helmet promoters. The misinformation makes people believe that bicycling is very dangerous, and that helmets are very effective. Both ideas are wrong. Hang on. I've seen lamentations that helmet proponents cannot produce data to show that bicycle helmets are effective at preventing injury. Now that you've gone and claimed that bicycle helmets AREN'T effective, I'd like to see YOUR data. As a motorcyclist of some fifteen years, I believe in the ability of a motorcycle helmet to reduce the impulse passed through to my brain from a four-foot fall from the saddle to the pavement. On the surface of it, I don't see any particular reason why the EPS foam in a bicycle helmet would not offer at least *some* attenuation of the impulse delivered to a bicyclist's brain, albeit perhaps less than that provided by a motorcycle helmet. -- Chris BeHanna Software Engineer (Remove "allspammersmustdie" before responding.) I was raised by a pack of wild corn dogs. |
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