Noise from new Sunrace cassette

On 2018-11-27 14:17, news18 wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 10:22:18 -0800, Joerg wrote:

On 2018-11-27 07:23, Ralph Barone wrote:


In my case, 10-speed with friction shifters would not be that great.
Of course, I could buy a new bike ...


Are you sure? :-)


No because then my wife would want this trusty old road bike to
disappear. She has a point, too many bikes already in the garage, three
for me and one is hers.

Me = bicycles, her = sewing machines. Nuff said.


Same here. However, I've already got sort of two man caves here. One
being a hobby brewery downstairs. _With_ pool table and big screen TV,
of course.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 11:26:07 -0000 (UTC), Duane
wrote:

John B. slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 14:24:45 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-11-26 14:01, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, November 26, 2018 at 4:26:53 PM UTC-5, duane wrote:
Snipped

Typically if I start off on a decent lenght ride, I like to have a
reasonable expectation of getting back without having to try to
rebuild the bike on the side of the road. To hack my cassette to
save one cog makes no sense to me. Frugality is a good thing for
the planet and all but this is sounding close to OCD.

I have a couple of bicycle wheels that still have Uniglide Cassette
bodies on them. A few years ago I came across a bicycle shop that was
a bit outside of a city in our area. that shop HAD a number of brand
new Uniglide 7 speed cassettes at $5.00 per cassette. I said HAD
because I bough every one they had. I even have a couple of NOS
Uniglide cassette bodies.


Out of curiosity, what are UG cassette bodies? The UG cassettes I had,
even before a hack, consisted only of cogs, spacers and three screws
that held it all together (but which weren't really needed and removed
by me).


... I'm set for the rest of my years and won't
need to hack apart and Dremel Hyperglide cassettes to replace those
Uniglide cogs once they wear out on both sides. If I get to the point
where I need lower gears I'll just swap out the bottom bracket
spindle 0r cartridge and add a triple chainring crankset. I have a
number of those on hand waiting for that day.


That'll be very hard on the chain and cogs if you ride a lot of hills.
Depends on rider weight and load, of course.


Speaking of hacking cassettes. I have one bicycle wheel that has a
9-speed hacked cassette with a corncob cluster 11 to 19 teeth being
shifted with friction downtube shifters which is good because one of
the cogs I could not find on my spare 9 speed cassettes was take from
and 8 speed cassette. I have no problems shifting to or from any of
those cogs. It's a fun bike to ride on gently rolling hills.

On my long distance road bike I have the Campagnolo Veloce 30 - 42 -
52 triple crank and find that 30 teeth ring useful at times in strong
headwinds, steep hills or if I'm really tired.

However, I think some people like Joerg simply enjoy making something
work with something it wasn't designed to work with.


Oh yeah. Sometimes you get a little bonus in the wake. For example, this
new cassette came with 11T and 13T as smallest cogs. Because of its
construction these had to stay in unless I'd do a more serious hack on
the big grinder. Turns out that 52/11 acts like an overdrive in a car
and if the wind picks up a wee bit I can shift to 13T. Currently I am
missing 15T so I accelerate for the last bit on the 18T, then shift to
the 13T for a "mild overdrive". It suits me well because I am not used
to spinning.


Interesting. A 52/11 with a 23mm tire at a moderate 90 RPM crank speed
is about 54 KPH or 33 MPH. I read that TdF level riders will ride a 36
K time trial in the 29 - 31 MPH range.



Not to butt in but your comparing some unknown distance of a probably top
speed over unknown grade and an arbitrary rpm with a pro’s average speed
over some probably different distance and grade.

I’ve certainly used my 52/11 in the hills and I am definitely not gunning
for the TDF. Though I wouldn’t hack my cassette to achieve what I can buy
off the shelf.

As I read his original post he is riding on a generally level road
using a 52/11 as an "over drive". Now you say that you use a 52/11 in
the hills which implies that you are riding on hilly terrain using a
52/11. One can only assume that you actually mean that you use a 52/11
gear down hills... not up the hills :-)

cheers,

John B.

On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 10:20:23 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-11-27 08:40, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 7:14:23 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-11-27 07:04, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, November 26, 2018 at 2:24:47 PM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-11-26 14:01, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, November 26, 2018 at 4:26:53 PM UTC-5, duane
wrote: Snipped

Typically if I start off on a decent lenght ride, I like to
have a reasonable expectation of getting back without
having to try to rebuild the bike on the side of the road.
To hack my cassette to save one cog makes no sense to me.
Frugality is a good thing for the planet and all but this
is sounding close to OCD.

I have a couple of bicycle wheels that still have Uniglide
Cassette bodies on them. A few years ago I came across a
bicycle shop that was a bit outside of a city in our area.
that shop HAD a number of brand new Uniglide 7 speed
cassettes at $5.00 per cassette. I said HAD because I bough
every one they had. I even have a couple of NOS Uniglide
cassette bodies.


Out of curiosity, what are UG cassette bodies? The UG cassettes
I had, even before a hack, consisted only of cogs, spacers and
three screws that held it all together (but which weren't
really needed and removed by me).


... I'm set for the rest of my years and won't need to hack
apart and Dremel Hyperglide cassettes to replace those
Uniglide cogs once they wear out on both sides. If I get to
the point where I need lower gears I'll just swap out the
bottom bracket spindle 0r cartridge and add a triple
chainring crankset. I have a number of those on hand waiting
for that day.


That'll be very hard on the chain and cogs if you ride a lot of
hills. Depends on rider weight and load, of course.


Speaking of hacking cassettes. I have one bicycle wheel that
has a 9-speed hacked cassette with a corncob cluster 11 to 19
teeth being shifted with friction downtube shifters which is
good because one of the cogs I could not find on my spare 9
speed cassettes was take from and 8 speed cassette. I have no
problems shifting to or from any of those cogs. It's a fun
bike to ride on gently rolling hills.

On my long distance road bike I have the Campagnolo Veloce 30
- 42 - 52 triple crank and find that 30 teeth ring useful at
times in strong headwinds, steep hills or if I'm really
tired.

However, I think some people like Joerg simply enjoy making
something work with something it wasn't designed to work
with.


Oh yeah. Sometimes you get a little bonus in the wake. For
example, this new cassette came with 11T and 13T as smallest
cogs. Because of its construction these had to stay in unless
I'd do a more serious hack on the big grinder. Turns out that
52/11 acts like an overdrive in a car and if the wind picks up
a wee bit I can shift to 13T. Currently I am missing 15T so I
accelerate for the last bit on the 18T, then shift to the 13T
for a "mild overdrive". It suits me well because I am not used
to spinning.

So, are your three lowest cogs 11, 13, 18? Is there nothing
between 13 and 18?


Unfortunately not. I'll see how that fares this week. If I really
want that 15T I'll probably take out the 28T instead. The bike only
supports 7-speed unless I'd go to a smaller chain. With friction
shifters a smaller chain and more cogs would not be fun.


https://www.bikenashbar.com/cycling/...-expert-bz-rfe Wait
for the bankruptcy to ramp-up, and the price will drop some more --
or get the same bike at the door-closing sale at your nearest
Performance. Steel, 9 reasonable speeds, tire clearance, discs, etc.,
etc. All the things you want for your gnarly road riding in the
wilds of Cameron Park. The massive Trump tax break should more than
fund that bike, or at least the bar tape.


That is a good deal and with hydraulic brakes no less. Bankruptcy at
Nashbar? Please tell us you were kidding. Pricepoint is already gone
which hurt (no bankruptcy, they just shut down) and now another?

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...1#.W_3M49tKiUk

Relatively old news -- and it is consolidated with the bankruptcies filed by the parent company, ASI, and Performance. I looked at the docket (NC Middle District). Yikes. Wells Fargo filed a proof of claim for $37M.

Nashbar has filed a motion to approve the sale of substantially all its assets, which is kind of an end-around plan approval and probably means there is someone in the wings waiting to buy. Chapter 11 is fascinating -- full of tricks and way beyond my expertise.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 15:36:46 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 11/27/2018 1:02 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 10:14:23 AM UTC-5, Joerg wrote:
Snipped

Unfortunately not. I'll see how that fares this week. If I really want
that 15T I'll probably take out the 28T instead. The bike only supports
7-speed unless I'd go to a smaller chain. With friction shifters a
smaller chain and more cogs would not be fun.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

I have two bicycles with 9 speed clusters, chain and old school friction shifters. I can shift gears on either bicycle with no problems.

YMMV and probably does.

My folding bike has a 9 speed cluster and bar end shifters that can be
set to either index or friction. Sometimes the folding messes with the
indexing for a while, so I just use the friction setting. It's no
problem at all.

But I know it wouldn't work for Joerg.

Both of my "Bangkok" bikes have down tube friction shifters and I find
no problems in shifting. I read once in a magazine that someone asked
Eddy Merckx, who probably rode much of his career with friction
shifters, if he had ever missed a shift and he replied, "I haven't
missed a shift since I was 12 years old".


cheers,

John B.

On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 07:07:10 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-11-26 19:43, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 14:24:45 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

[...]

Speaking of hacking cassettes. I have one bicycle wheel that has a
9-speed hacked cassette with a corncob cluster 11 to 19 teeth being
shifted with friction downtube shifters which is good because one of
the cogs I could not find on my spare 9 speed cassettes was take from
and 8 speed cassette. I have no problems shifting to or from any of
those cogs. It's a fun bike to ride on gently rolling hills.

On my long distance road bike I have the Campagnolo Veloce 30 - 42 -
52 triple crank and find that 30 teeth ring useful at times in strong
headwinds, steep hills or if I'm really tired.

However, I think some people like Joerg simply enjoy making something
work with something it wasn't designed to work with.


Oh yeah. Sometimes you get a little bonus in the wake. For example, this
new cassette came with 11T and 13T as smallest cogs. Because of its
construction these had to stay in unless I'd do a more serious hack on
the big grinder. Turns out that 52/11 acts like an overdrive in a car
and if the wind picks up a wee bit I can shift to 13T. Currently I am
missing 15T so I accelerate for the last bit on the 18T, then shift to
the 13T for a "mild overdrive". It suits me well because I am not used
to spinning.


Interesting. A 52/11 with a 23mm tire at a moderate 90 RPM crank speed
is about 54 KPH or 33 MPH. I read that TdF level riders will ride a 36
K time trial in the 29 - 31 MPH range.


Then there are people who prefer not to ride longer distance at 90rpm. I
often ride at 20mph and the resulting lower rpm feels just right.

While "spinning" initially seems difficult it really isn't and it is
the most efficient method of powering a bicycle.
(horse) Power = RPM x Force

(and, yes I know there is a constant used to convert to some specified
output value :-)


cheers,

John B.

On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 07:16:19 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-11-26 19:29, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 12:28:09 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-11-25 17:56, jbeattie wrote:

[...]


I can't get a HG cassette cog to fit on a HG freehub body if I flip
the cog. The notches are not symmetrical.


After a little dance with a Dremel you can.

A new 10 speed free hub is less then $20. Spreading the rear fork is a
trivial task, re dishing a wheel, that is reasonably true, is simple
...


In my case, 10-speed with friction shifters would not be that great. Of
course, I could buy a new bike ...

Interesting. One of my bikes has a ten speed cassette and I shift it
with a friction down tube shifter with no problems.

cheers,

John B.

On 2018-11-27 15:54, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 07:07:10 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-11-26 19:43, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 14:24:45 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

[...]

Speaking of hacking cassettes. I have one bicycle wheel that has a
9-speed hacked cassette with a corncob cluster 11 to 19 teeth being
shifted with friction downtube shifters which is good because one of
the cogs I could not find on my spare 9 speed cassettes was take from
and 8 speed cassette. I have no problems shifting to or from any of
those cogs. It's a fun bike to ride on gently rolling hills.

On my long distance road bike I have the Campagnolo Veloce 30 - 42 -
52 triple crank and find that 30 teeth ring useful at times in strong
headwinds, steep hills or if I'm really tired.

However, I think some people like Joerg simply enjoy making something
work with something it wasn't designed to work with.


Oh yeah. Sometimes you get a little bonus in the wake. For example, this
new cassette came with 11T and 13T as smallest cogs. Because of its
construction these had to stay in unless I'd do a more serious hack on
the big grinder. Turns out that 52/11 acts like an overdrive in a car
and if the wind picks up a wee bit I can shift to 13T. Currently I am
missing 15T so I accelerate for the last bit on the 18T, then shift to
the 13T for a "mild overdrive". It suits me well because I am not used
to spinning.


Interesting. A 52/11 with a 23mm tire at a moderate 90 RPM crank speed
is about 54 KPH or 33 MPH. I read that TdF level riders will ride a 36
K time trial in the 29 - 31 MPH range.


Then there are people who prefer not to ride longer distance at 90rpm. I
often ride at 20mph and the resulting lower rpm feels just right.

While "spinning" initially seems difficult it really isn't and it is
the most efficient method of powering a bicycle.
(horse) Power = RPM x Force


I am just not used to it and spent most of my cycling life in sort of an
"overdrive". Old dog, new tricks? Nah ...

Also, the taller a person is the less he or she generally likes high rpm.


(and, yes I know there is a constant used to convert to some specified
output value :-)


My legs can pump all the output I want from them. Eventually I just run
out of breath, that's the limiter. That can be trained up as well but I
don't have any Tour de France ambitions.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2018-11-27 15:56, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 07:16:19 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-11-26 19:29, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 12:28:09 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-11-25 17:56, jbeattie wrote:

[...]


I can't get a HG cassette cog to fit on a HG freehub body if I flip
the cog. The notches are not symmetrical.


After a little dance with a Dremel you can.

A new 10 speed free hub is less then $20. Spreading the rear fork is a
trivial task, re dishing a wheel, that is reasonably true, is simple
...


In my case, 10-speed with friction shifters would not be that great. Of
course, I could buy a new bike ...

Interesting. One of my bikes has a ten speed cassette and I shift it
with a friction down tube shifter with no problems.


Sure, I can do that as well. It's just not very comfortable without
indexing, especially like yesterday where I rode along a busy road with
lots of noise, in the dark. So you could be going miles with a slightly
out of trim derailer and not hear it. Not healthy for the chain. That
chance is lower the wider the chain is.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2018-11-27 15:39, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 10:20:23 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-11-27 08:40, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 7:14:23 AM UTC-8, Joerg wrote:
On 2018-11-27 07:04, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, November 26, 2018 at 2:24:47 PM UTC-8, Joerg
wrote:
On 2018-11-26 14:01, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, November 26, 2018 at 4:26:53 PM UTC-5, duane
wrote: Snipped

Typically if I start off on a decent lenght ride, I
like to have a reasonable expectation of getting back
without having to try to rebuild the bike on the side
of the road. To hack my cassette to save one cog makes
no sense to me. Frugality is a good thing for the
planet and all but this is sounding close to OCD.

I have a couple of bicycle wheels that still have
Uniglide Cassette bodies on them. A few years ago I came
across a bicycle shop that was a bit outside of a city in
our area. that shop HAD a number of brand new Uniglide 7
speed cassettes at $5.00 per cassette. I said HAD because
I bough every one they had. I even have a couple of NOS
Uniglide cassette bodies.


Out of curiosity, what are UG cassette bodies? The UG
cassettes I had, even before a hack, consisted only of
cogs, spacers and three screws that held it all together
(but which weren't really needed and removed by me).


... I'm set for the rest of my years and won't need to
hack apart and Dremel Hyperglide cassettes to replace
those Uniglide cogs once they wear out on both sides. If
I get to the point where I need lower gears I'll just
swap out the bottom bracket spindle 0r cartridge and add
a triple chainring crankset. I have a number of those on
hand waiting for that day.


That'll be very hard on the chain and cogs if you ride a
lot of hills. Depends on rider weight and load, of course.


Speaking of hacking cassettes. I have one bicycle wheel
that has a 9-speed hacked cassette with a corncob cluster
11 to 19 teeth being shifted with friction downtube
shifters which is good because one of the cogs I could
not find on my spare 9 speed cassettes was take from and
8 speed cassette. I have no problems shifting to or from
any of those cogs. It's a fun bike to ride on gently
rolling hills.

On my long distance road bike I have the Campagnolo
Veloce 30 - 42 - 52 triple crank and find that 30 teeth
ring useful at times in strong headwinds, steep hills or
if I'm really tired.

However, I think some people like Joerg simply enjoy
making something work with something it wasn't designed
to work with.


Oh yeah. Sometimes you get a little bonus in the wake. For
example, this new cassette came with 11T and 13T as
smallest cogs. Because of its construction these had to
stay in unless I'd do a more serious hack on the big
grinder. Turns out that 52/11 acts like an overdrive in a
car and if the wind picks up a wee bit I can shift to 13T.
Currently I am missing 15T so I accelerate for the last bit
on the 18T, then shift to the 13T for a "mild overdrive".
It suits me well because I am not used to spinning.

So, are your three lowest cogs 11, 13, 18? Is there nothing
between 13 and 18?


Unfortunately not. I'll see how that fares this week. If I
really want that 15T I'll probably take out the 28T instead.
The bike only supports 7-speed unless I'd go to a smaller
chain. With friction shifters a smaller chain and more cogs
would not be fun.


https://www.bikenashbar.com/cycling/...-expert-bz-rfe
Wait for the bankruptcy to ramp-up, and the price will drop some
more -- or get the same bike at the door-closing sale at your
nearest Performance. Steel, 9 reasonable speeds, tire clearance,
discs, etc., etc. All the things you want for your gnarly road
riding in the wilds of Cameron Park. The massive Trump tax break
should more than fund that bike, or at least the bar tape.


That is a good deal and with hydraulic brakes no less. Bankruptcy
at Nashbar? Please tell us you were kidding. Pricepoint is already
gone which hurt (no bankruptcy, they just shut down) and now
another?

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...1#.W_3M49tKiUk

Relatively old news -- and it is consolidated with the bankruptcies
filed by the parent company, ASI, and Performance. I looked at the
docket (NC Middle District). Yikes. Wells Fargo filed a proof of
claim for $37M.


Ugh! That's even worse. ASI has the Fuji brand and that's what my MTB
is. So if I bust the Horst link I may not be able to buy a spare. Oh-oh.


Nashbar has filed a motion to approve the sale of substantially all
its assets, which is kind of an end-around plan approval and probably
means there is someone in the wings waiting to buy. Chapter 11 is
fascinating -- full of tricks and way beyond my expertise.


If Nashbar, ASI and Performance all go down the chute that would be a
major blow to the American bicyle market.

Thanks for elucidating, I didn't know any of that.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2018-11-27 15:24, John B. slocomb wrote:
On Tue, 27 Nov 2018 11:26:07 -0000 (UTC), Duane
wrote:

John B. slocomb wrote:
On Mon, 26 Nov 2018 14:24:45 -0800, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-11-26 14:01, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Monday, November 26, 2018 at 4:26:53 PM UTC-5, duane wrote:
Snipped

Typically if I start off on a decent lenght ride, I like to have a
reasonable expectation of getting back without having to try to
rebuild the bike on the side of the road. To hack my cassette to
save one cog makes no sense to me. Frugality is a good thing for
the planet and all but this is sounding close to OCD.

I have a couple of bicycle wheels that still have Uniglide Cassette
bodies on them. A few years ago I came across a bicycle shop that was
a bit outside of a city in our area. that shop HAD a number of brand
new Uniglide 7 speed cassettes at $5.00 per cassette. I said HAD
because I bough every one they had. I even have a couple of NOS
Uniglide cassette bodies.


Out of curiosity, what are UG cassette bodies? The UG cassettes I had,
even before a hack, consisted only of cogs, spacers and three screws
that held it all together (but which weren't really needed and removed
by me).


... I'm set for the rest of my years and won't
need to hack apart and Dremel Hyperglide cassettes to replace those
Uniglide cogs once they wear out on both sides. If I get to the point
where I need lower gears I'll just swap out the bottom bracket
spindle 0r cartridge and add a triple chainring crankset. I have a
number of those on hand waiting for that day.


That'll be very hard on the chain and cogs if you ride a lot of hills.
Depends on rider weight and load, of course.


Speaking of hacking cassettes. I have one bicycle wheel that has a
9-speed hacked cassette with a corncob cluster 11 to 19 teeth being
shifted with friction downtube shifters which is good because one of
the cogs I could not find on my spare 9 speed cassettes was take from
and 8 speed cassette. I have no problems shifting to or from any of
those cogs. It's a fun bike to ride on gently rolling hills.

On my long distance road bike I have the Campagnolo Veloce 30 - 42 -
52 triple crank and find that 30 teeth ring useful at times in strong
headwinds, steep hills or if I'm really tired.

However, I think some people like Joerg simply enjoy making something
work with something it wasn't designed to work with.


Oh yeah. Sometimes you get a little bonus in the wake. For example, this
new cassette came with 11T and 13T as smallest cogs. Because of its
construction these had to stay in unless I'd do a more serious hack on
the big grinder. Turns out that 52/11 acts like an overdrive in a car
and if the wind picks up a wee bit I can shift to 13T. Currently I am
missing 15T so I accelerate for the last bit on the 18T, then shift to
the 13T for a "mild overdrive". It suits me well because I am not used
to spinning.


Interesting. A 52/11 with a 23mm tire at a moderate 90 RPM crank speed
is about 54 KPH or 33 MPH. I read that TdF level riders will ride a 36
K time trial in the 29 - 31 MPH range.



Not to butt in but your comparing some unknown distance of a probably top
speed over unknown grade and an arbitrary rpm with a pro’s average speed
over some probably different distance and grade.

I’ve certainly used my 52/11 in the hills and I am definitely not gunning
for the TDF. Though I wouldn’t hack my cassette to achieve what I can buy
off the shelf.

As I read his original post he is riding on a generally level road
using a 52/11 as an "over drive". Now you say that you use a 52/11 in
the hills which implies that you are riding on hilly terrain using a
52/11. One can only assume that you actually mean that you use a 52/11
gear down hills... not up the hills :-)


You can get up to impressive speeds with 52/11 downhill, pedaling full
blast. On Sunday I couldn't resist but throttled back when the front end
started a hard shimmy.

What would be really cool is to move from the bike lane all the way into
the left lane and pass a Porsche :-)

Anyhow, I could almost kick myself for not having done this mod much
earlier when 40-11T came out. I saw such a cassette on a friend's MTB
and just had to have one. I'll probably never look back.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/