|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
Sidewalks, bikes, & civil engineering
The original report at
http://phoenix.gov/STREETS/2007bike.pdf =v= As usual, based on police reports and thus subject to the observer bias of police and, in the case of fatalities, survivor bias. So the "at-fault" numbers and charts are completely meaningless, but will of course be used to prop up the usual entrenched opinions anyhow. The other stats are of more value, of course, though they depend on how much forensic work the police decide to do when a bike is involved. _Jym_ |
#2
|
|||
|
|||
Sidewalks, bikes, & civil engineering
Jym Dyer wrote:
The original report at http://phoenix.gov/STREETS/2007bike.pdf =v= As usual, based on police reports and thus subject to the observer bias of police and, in the case of fatalities, survivor bias. So the "at-fault" numbers and charts are completely meaningless, but will of course be used to prop up the usual entrenched opinions anyhow. The other stats are of more value, of course, though they depend on how much forensic work the police decide to do when a bike is involved. _Jym_ When someone says "That data is useless," it's good form to give other data that's better. So: Got data on Phoenix? Or got other data that proves what you claim? -- - Frank Krygowski |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
Sidewalks, bikes, & civil engineering
Jym Dyer wrote:
The original report at http://phoenix.gov/STREETS/2007bike.pdf =v= As usual, based on police reports and thus subject to the observer bias of police and, in the case of fatalities, survivor bias. So the "at-fault" numbers and charts are completely meaningless, but will of course be used to prop up the usual entrenched opinions anyhow. The other stats are of more value, of course, though they depend on how much forensic work the police decide to do when a bike is involved. _Jym_ When someone says "That data is useless," it's good form to give other data that's better. So: Got data on Phoenix? Or got other data that proves what you claim? -- - Frank Krygowski |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
Sidewalks, bikes, & civil engineering
When someone says "That data is useless," it's good form
to give other data that's better. =v= That would be great if other data were available. If it's not, that doesn't mean the bad data is suddenly good. _Jym_ |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
Sidewalks, bikes, & civil engineering
Jym Dyer wrote:
When someone says "That data is useless," it's good form to give other data that's better. =v= That would be great if other data were available. If it's not, that doesn't mean the bad data is suddenly good. _Jym_ So what you're saying is "_All_ the data is bad. I just know it is. You just have to believe me." Sorry. I think unquestioning faith in a self-proclaimed prophet is kind of dangerous. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#6
|
|||
|
|||
Sidewalks, bikes, & civil engineering
Frank Krygowski writes:
So what you're saying is "_All_ the data is bad. I just know it is. You just have to believe me." =v= What I actually said is that *part* of the data is subject to bias: namely, the at-fault numbers. Sorry. I think unquestioning faith in a self-proclaimed prophet is kind of dangerous. =v= Now you're really off the rails. I named specific and well-known forms of bias (observer bias and survivor bias). I did not invent these insights, I'm just applying them. If you have any substantial, non-_ad_hominem_ reason why these biases should simply be ignored, by all means present them. _Jym_ |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
Sidewalks, bikes, & civil engineering
Jym Dyer wrote:
Frank Krygowski writes: So what you're saying is "_All_ the data is bad. I just know it is. You just have to believe me." =v= What I actually said is that *part* of the data is subject to bias: namely, the at-fault numbers. And again: Where is your evidence? Sorry. I think unquestioning faith in a self-proclaimed prophet is kind of dangerous. =v= Now you're really off the rails. I named specific and well-known forms of bias (observer bias and survivor bias). I did not invent these insights, I'm just applying them. But you haven't shown that it applies to the Phoenix data, or if it does, to what degree. You can hardly expect researchers to discard all data just because Jym Dyer thinks it might be invalid! If you have any substantial, non-_ad_hominem_ reason why these biases should simply be ignored, by all means present them. Until they're demonstrated to exist, they must be ignored. Understand, I'm not claiming all Phoenix data is faultless. I'm aware of problems with data collection. In fact, I've corresponded extensively with two statisticians who are recognized masters at spotting shortcomings and bias in similar data collection. But those individuals don't just toss all data based on the idea it may contain bias. They are known for finding evidence of such bias, when applicable, and using their evidence to improve the analysis of the data. So far, you've done none of that. You've just said "Ignore that data." So seriously, what have you got for evidence that Phoenix data is significantly in error? -- - Frank Krygowski |
#8
|
|||
|
|||
Sidewalks, bikes, & civil engineering
On Sep 27, 12:50*pm, Jym Dyer wrote:
The original report at http://phoenix.gov/STREETS/2007bike.pdf =v= As usual, based on police reports and thus subject to the observer bias of police and, in the case of fatalities, survivor bias. *So the "at-fault" numbers and charts are completely meaningless, but will of course be used to prop up the usual entrenched opinions anyhow. *The other stats are of more value, of course, though they depend on how much forensic work the police decide to do when a bike is involved. * * _Jym_ One need not go much beyond the introduction where it says "Most bicyclists were hit from the left side while riding AGAINST TRAFFIC ON THE SIDEWALK, ROADWAY or while crossing streets." I capitalized two points that drive me nuts. We need to ride within the confines of the law or we will find ourselves confined to bike trails/paths/lanes there-by limiting where ad how people like myself can live. |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Sidewalks, bikes, & civil engineering | damyth | Techniques | 142 | October 23rd 11 08:03 PM |
Sidewalks, bikes, & civil engineering | Frank Krygowski[_3_] | General | 15 | October 1st 11 07:07 PM |
No bikes on sidewalks. That's a sign of Banana Republic | Keith F. Lynch | Social Issues | 1 | April 12th 10 01:33 AM |
bikes are too fast for sidewalks, and too slow for traffic lanes | KingOfTheApes | General | 34 | July 23rd 08 04:20 PM |
bikes are too fast for sidewalks, and too slow for traffic lanes | KingOfTheApes | Social Issues | 27 | July 23rd 08 04:20 PM |