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Touring advice, one bike or two?



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 25th 08, 12:54 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Tom Keats
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Posts: 3,193
Default Touring advice, one bike or two?

In article ,
Maury Markowitz writes:

So, what do I do for a touring setup?

1) get a new road bike like the 5.2 or Roubaix, set it up with a
triple and use a skewer-mounted panier those very few times I tour
(along with high-spoke wheels and 32's)

2) buy a second bike with a better touring setup (braze-ons, bigger
wheels) and let it rust the other 99% of the time

3) buy an old road bike and re-equip it with a triple -- this seems to
take some serious coin


Just for something else to consider, here's another option:

http://www.briandesousa.com/bicycling/tech/convert.htm

Brian DeSousa's approach to converting a mountain bike
into a touring bike (and vice verso.)

To me it seems like a pretty good niche filler for so-called
"back country touring," involving some road, some trail and
some light, totally off the beaten track. Even if the
(handlebar) mods were permanent instead of convertible.

If your touring involves mostly riding on pavement, I wouldn't
suggest this option. But if you intend to access many country,
pothole-ridden, dirt roads, or occasionally pick lines through a
bunch of sagebrushes, this rig might just be the ticket. Maybe
outfit it with inverted tread 26" tires.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca
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  #12  
Old May 26th 08, 01:15 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Maury Markowitz
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Posts: 10
Default Touring advice, one bike or two?

Wow, thanks everyone! This is great advice, it really opened my eyes
to a totally different direction.

Those "breakable" bikes are extremely interesting, does anyone know of
any downsides? Are they still mechanically strong? Following links off
the site that Tom mentioned I found a company that makes them
complete, set up for road touring with drop handles and everything.
Odd gruppo, but basically exactly what I'm looking for, oh yeah, and
it just happens to stow into a bag. Very cool.

Hank, I'm a little lost about the sizing of the triple you noted. Yes,
MTB gearing would be too low for me (been there, done that), so I
would want a road-sized crank. But isn't 110/74BCD the basic standard
that any triple would use? Is there some difference in geometry
between this, and say a normal 105 triple?

Maury
  #13  
Old May 26th 08, 01:55 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
landotter
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Posts: 6,336
Default Touring advice, one bike or two?

On May 25, 7:15 pm, Maury Markowitz wrote:
Wow, thanks everyone! This is great advice, it really opened my eyes
to a totally different direction.

Those "breakable" bikes are extremely interesting, does anyone know of
any downsides? Are they still mechanically strong? Following links off
the site that Tom mentioned I found a company that makes them
complete, set up for road touring with drop handles and everything.


Strong as a non-breakaway bike, just a few ounces heavier. Super neat
engineering.

The Dahon Tournado is another take on a full size high quality do-
anything folder:

https://shop.sunrisecyclery.com/item/37252

Tour, go fast, take it anywhere.

  #14  
Old May 26th 08, 02:22 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Hank
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Posts: 887
Default Touring advice, one bike or two?

On May 25, 5:15 pm, Maury Markowitz wrote:
Wow, thanks everyone! This is great advice, it really opened my eyes
to a totally different direction.

Those "breakable" bikes are extremely interesting, does anyone know of
any downsides? Are they still mechanically strong? Following links off
the site that Tom mentioned I found a company that makes them
complete, set up for road touring with drop handles and everything.
Odd gruppo, but basically exactly what I'm looking for, oh yeah, and
it just happens to stow into a bag. Very cool.

Hank, I'm a little lost about the sizing of the triple you noted. Yes,
MTB gearing would be too low for me (been there, done that), so I
would want a road-sized crank. But isn't 110/74BCD the basic standard
that any triple would use? Is there some difference in geometry
between this, and say a normal 105 triple?

Maury


110/74 used to be the standard for triples 20-25 years ago, on the
first wave of MTBs. Since then, it's split off into 2 standards, the
MTB's 104/64 with 44/32/22 rings and the road triple's 130/74, with a
52/42/30. Neither of those are particularly good for touring, but the
110/74 is like Baby Bear's porridge: just right. You might think you
could just swap chainrings around, but modern triple FDs are shaped
for very specific chainring combos, and venturing outside them means
they won't shift at all.

So of the currently-made 110/74 cranks, the Sugino XD is by far the
best. QBP stocks them with 46/36/26 rings, but some shops get them
from other sources with other chainring combos. I got a 48-36-24 from
Andy Muzi at http://yellowjersey.org last year, and it's what I have
on my Surly Long Haul Trucker, replacing the Campy Veloce triple with
too-big chainrings (52-42-28 - I swapped out the granny, and it
shifted like crap).

The 48-36-24 and the 46-36-26 combos have both shifted great for me
with Campy triple FDs, as well as a Shimano 2203. Just make sure the
middle-to-big gap on your crank is within 2 teeth of what the FD's
designed for. Dura-Ace 7803, for example, is a 53-39-30, and the 14t
gap causes it to shift poorly, if at all, on cranks with a 10t gap.
Conversely, I tried a 50-36-26 setup with the 2203 and it wouldn't
shift from the middle ring onto the granny, because the middle ring
was lower than the ramp that was supposed to derail the chain. I
changed the 36 for a 40 and it worked fine.

I hope that made any sense at all.
  #15  
Old May 27th 08, 04:39 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Maury Markowitz
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Posts: 10
Default Touring advice, one bike or two?

On May 25, 9:22*pm, Hank wrote:
I hope that made any sense at all.


Yes, it's great! A couple of smaller questions then, if I may...

On my road bike I stay in the 53 ring at least 99% of the time, the
other one's the 42 IIRC. I'm definitely leaning towards a 50 on the
big end, so do you think that a 50-39-26 would work with the 2203? Or
maybe a 38 middle if such a thing exists?

On the back end, any old cassette I can find should work, no? I'm
thinking maybe the long-cage Ultegra 9-speed that they put on my 5000
by mistake, and replacing it on that bike with the short-cage. I've
got a 12 to 27 cassette on the 5000, so what would be more suitable
here, perhaps a 13 to 30? Can you go that high?

Maury
  #16  
Old May 27th 08, 04:43 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Maury Markowitz
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Posts: 10
Default Touring advice, one bike or two?

On May 25, 8:55*pm, landotter wrote:
Strong as a non-breakaway bike, just a few ounces heavier. Super neat
engineering.


Done, I'm going for it. I'm going to start checking craigs for a good
starting point. Two more things:

I found riding the '91 Marin steel road bike really tiring on the
rough. Should I consider using a carbon fork? I won't be carrying
front bags, so the lack of braze-ons there doesn't phase me.

And the other question: after smelling my breaks on the Cabot Trail
downhills and hearing horror stories of blown front tires, I'm really
thinking that a disk on the front makes sense. Any reason not to?

Maury
  #17  
Old May 27th 08, 08:26 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
landotter
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Posts: 6,336
Default Touring advice, one bike or two?

On May 27, 10:43*am, Maury Markowitz
wrote:
On May 25, 8:55*pm, landotter wrote:

Strong as a non-breakaway bike, just a few ounces heavier. Super neat
engineering.


Done, I'm going for it. I'm going to start checking craigs for a good
starting point. Two more things:

I found riding the '91 Marin steel road bike really tiring on the
rough. Should I consider using a carbon fork? I won't be carrying
front bags, so the lack of braze-ons there doesn't phase me.


Carbon's fine if you need new fork and they're on sale. Comfort wise,
running a wider tire is what's going to help. A high quality 32mm+
skinwall tire is going to cost you two to five seconds per mile over a
23mm tire, roughly, but be much more easy on your body if you have a
bit less pressure in there. You can run a skinnier tire in back if the
caliper doesn't allow for fatter than, say a 28.

And the other question: after smelling my breaks on the Cabot Trail
downhills and hearing horror stories of blown front tires, I'm really
thinking that a disk on the front makes sense. Any reason not to?


Go for it. Here's a cheap 1" carbon disc cross fork even:
http://tinyurl.com/2j24w2

+ you'll need a disc wheel...

and a cable disc brake like an Avid compatible with road levers:

http://www.jensonusa.com/store/produ...+Brake+08.aspx

  #18  
Old May 28th 08, 03:43 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Hank
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Posts: 887
Default Touring advice, one bike or two?

On May 27, 8:39 am, Maury Markowitz wrote:
On May 25, 9:22 pm, Hank wrote:

I hope that made any sense at all.


Yes, it's great! A couple of smaller questions then, if I may...

On my road bike I stay in the 53 ring at least 99% of the time, the
other one's the 42 IIRC. I'm definitely leaning towards a 50 on the
big end, so do you think that a 50-39-26 would work with the 2203? Or
maybe a 38 middle if such a thing exists?

On the back end, any old cassette I can find should work, no? I'm
thinking maybe the long-cage Ultegra 9-speed that they put on my 5000
by mistake, and replacing it on that bike with the short-cage. I've
got a 12 to 27 cassette on the 5000, so what would be more suitable
here, perhaps a 13 to 30? Can you go that high?

Maury


2203 would work, but the Sora Triple 3403 would be better, since
50-39-30 is its native combination. They claim a total capacity of
22t, so a 26 might not work, but probably would. There's usually some
wiggle room.

As for the RD you use, 30 would be pushing it for the Ultegra
RD-6500GS that you have. I got a Tiagra RD-4400GS to work with a 30,
but only by flipping the B-tension screw around, to give the added
extension of the screw's head against the hanger tab. Official maximum
cog size is 27T, but a 28 would work fine. Are you going to index?
There are no off-the-shelf 13-30 9s cassettes. They have to be custom-
made by combining the parts of 2 other cassettes. There's a dead spot
between 12-27 and 11-32, selection-wise, and the 11-32 would require a
MTB RD.

Don't bother with a 38T ring, if you get a crank with a 50-39-30
combo, like the new 105 FC-5603, Tiagra FC-4503 and Sora FC-3403 all
come with. It's not enough of a difference to matter, especially if
you have a granny gear.

Good luck!
  #19  
Old May 28th 08, 04:17 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
Maury Markowitz
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Posts: 10
Default Touring advice, one bike or two?

Ok, the picture is getting much clearer now.

I visited Urbane and they have a Jamis set up for touring. Low-end
grouppo, but pretty much everything I'm looking for -- drop handles
with STI, standard sized steel tubing that could be cut for break-
down, and a nice head-up geometry. I'll live with the calipers for
now, although I've never been a fan of them. The only real concern was
the front crankset, which was 53-something-30ish. I'd definitely want
to take that down a step, perhaps with the Sugino crank. All this for
$1100, which seems like a steal.

The other option they had was a Richey frameset with built-in
breakdown points. It came with a carbon disk-read front fork, and a
little less wheelbase (which I like). The frame was $1000 though, so
it would likely run me 2k for the full buildout. I'll be trolling
craigs and e-bay and see if anything turns up though.

They also had a couple of the Huffy frames, but he said it would
basically be identical to the Jamis, and only recommended that I go
that way if I wanted to do a complete build-up. Of course at that
point I'd just go with the Richey for a few more bucks, but already
with the breakdown points.

Maury
  #20  
Old May 28th 08, 06:43 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc
SMS
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Posts: 9,477
Default Touring advice, one bike or two?

Maury Markowitz wrote:
Ok, the picture is getting much clearer now.

I visited Urbane and they have a Jamis set up for touring. Low-end
grouppo, but pretty much everything I'm looking for -- drop handles
with STI, standard sized steel tubing that could be cut for break-
down, and a nice head-up geometry. I'll live with the calipers for
now, although I've never been a fan of them. The only real concern was
the front crankset, which was 53-something-30ish. I'd definitely want
to take that down a step, perhaps with the Sugino crank. All this for
$1100, which seems like a steal.

The other option they had was a Richey frameset with built-in
breakdown points. It came with a carbon disk-read front fork, and a
little less wheelbase (which I like). The frame was $1000 though, so
it would likely run me 2k for the full buildout. I'll be trolling
craigs and e-bay and see if anything turns up though.


Two other options.

The Dahon Tournado uses the Ritchey frame. It's $2000, but think about
how much it'll cost for S&S couplers on a standard steel frame touring
frame (I expect that it's at least $350). See
"http://www.dahon.com/us/tournado.htm".

The Panasonic touring frame breaks down, and is available for $795. See
"http://www.yellowjersey.org/posd7.html" Beautiful lugged frame, and
threaded headset.
 




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