"Does the election affect cyclists?"

http://velomuse.wordpress.com/2008/1...fect-cyclists/

Why can't bicyclists see how INCREDIBLY selfish it is of them to
insist on bringing a large, fast-moving piece of MACHINERY with them
into wildlife habitat, where it disturbs and endangers wildlife and
all other trail users????? Why is it that 99% of the population is
able to enjoy nature WITHOUT bringing a bicycle with them, but
mountain bikers are NOT????? Why can't mountain bikers be honest
enough to answer these questions????? This is not rocket science, you
know. The issues are as plain as day. And yet mountain bikers pretend
(?) not to understand them....
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message
...

http://velomuse.wordpress.com/2008/1...fect-cyclists/

Why can't bicyclists see how INCREDIBLY selfish it is of them to
insist on bringing a large, fast-moving piece of MACHINERY with them
into wildlife habitat, where it disturbs and endangers wildlife and
all other trail users????? Why is it that 99% of the population is

Your own analysis does not support that statement.

Earlier, YOU disputed that Shumano says that 50 million mountain bikes are
out there, YOU said there are more. giving Shumano the benefit of the doubt,
there are 350 million Americans, so roughly 20% of them enjoy riding a
mountain bike, not just 1%, and you argued there are far more.

Why do you have so much trouble with numbers, and many of those numbers are
your own.

I've already detailed (in painstaking detail, I might add) that if 100% of
every single single-track route in the nation was a complete and utter
environmental wasteland and was closed down, you will have managed to
protect less than 0.004% of the habitat. The fact is, the habitat
destruction of the trail system is a tiny fraction of that 0.004% -- which
is already a tiny fraction.

I simply do not understand why you continue to do nothing with so much
enthusiasm and dedication.

On Oct 30, 10:54*am, "Jeff Strickland" wrote:
"Mike Vandeman" wrote in message

...


http://velomuse.wordpress.com/2008/1...ion-affect-cyc...

Why can't bicyclists see how INCREDIBLY selfish it is of them to
insist on bringing a large, fast-moving piece of MACHINERY with them
into wildlife habitat, where it disturbs and endangers wildlife and
all other trail users????? Why is it that 99% of the population is

Your own analysis does not support that statement.

Earlier, YOU disputed that Shumano says that 50 million mountain bikes are
out there, YOU said there are more. giving Shumano the benefit of the doubt,
there are 350 million Americans, so roughly 20% of them enjoy riding a
mountain bike, not just 1%, and you argued there are far more.

Why do you have so much trouble with numbers, and many of those numbers are
your own.

I've already detailed (in painstaking detail, I might add) that if 100% of
every single single-track route in the nation was a complete and utter
environmental wasteland and was closed down, you will have managed to
protect less than 0.004% of the habitat. The fact is, the habitat
destruction of the trail system is a tiny fraction of that 0.004% -- which
is already a tiny fraction.

Meanwhile, this destruction continues...

http://www.ohvec.org/galleries/mountaintop_removal/007/

Why doesn't Michael J. Vandeman put some effort in stopping a REAL
environmental problem?

On Oct 30, 7:43*am, Mike Vandeman wrote:

(I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)


Bull****. I swear you were saying that exact same phrase like 3 YEARS
ago last time I saw you on these boards. How old are you? How is your
health?
You must be an epic troll to keep going for so long.

Mike, I am not a mountain biker, but I would like to address a couple
of your comments.

Why can't bicyclists see how INCREDIBLY selfish it is of them to
insist on bringing a large, fast-moving piece of MACHINERY with them
into wildlife habitat, where it disturbs and endangers wildlife and
all other trail users?????

The whole world is wildlife habitat. Wherever we go we temporarily
displace some wildlife. Every time I go out of my office I disturb
the squirrels, birds, and the flock of Canada geese that have taken up
residence in the pond next to my office. As soon as I have passed,
they come back.

The same thing used to happen when I did ride a mountain bike. Deer,
turkeys, armadillos and everything else would scatter when they saw me
come by but, as at my office, they return to their normal activity as
soon as I was gone. I would mention that I was gone a lot sooner than
I would have been had I been walking.

I did nothing to endanger the wildlife by riding my bicycle down a
trail.

Why is it that 99% of the population is able to enjoy nature WITHOUT bringing a bicycle with them, but
mountain bikers are NOT?????

They are able to enjoy nature without a bike, but the enjoyment of
wildlife is not what they are looking for when they are riding a
mountain bike. They are enjoying the terrain and the natural flow of
the land. It is that part of nature that they come to enjoy.

Why can't mountain bikers be honest enough to answer these questions????? This is not rocket science, you know. The issues are as plain as day. And yet mountain bikers pretend (?) not to understand them....

The issues, as you define them, are not plain as day. The real issue
is whether mountain biking is compatible with responsible stewardship
of our natural resources. From what I have seen of the mountain
biking community and its effects on the trails around Tallahassee, it
is entirely compatible.

The most heavily traveled trails around here are maintained by the
mountain biking community to prevent erosion. The park is full of
indigenous wildlife. I have never heard of any conflict between
bikers and pedestrians or equestrians, all of whom use the trails.

Mike, I believe that the reason you have made such negligible progress
here in over 15 years is that you have not been able to demonstrate
that mountain biking is as destructive as you believe it is.

On Fri, 7 Nov 2008 10:14:25 -0800 (PST), Olebiker
wrote:

Mike, I am not a mountain biker, but I would like to address a couple
of your comments.

Why can't bicyclists see how INCREDIBLY selfish it is of them to
insist on bringing a large, fast-moving piece of MACHINERY with them
into wildlife habitat, where it disturbs and endangers wildlife and
all other trail users?????

The whole world is wildlife habitat. Wherever we go we temporarily
displace some wildlife. Every time I go out of my office I disturb
the squirrels, birds, and the flock of Canada geese that have taken up
residence in the pond next to my office. As soon as I have passed,
they come back.

Not always. The ones you kill don't come back, and the ones that don't
tolerate disturbance don't come back. The effect of human disturbance
is well documented, but only for people who READ. Mountain bikers
don't read (or don't comprehend) anything that might tel then the
truth about mountain biking impacts.

The same thing used to happen when I did ride a mountain bike. Deer,
turkeys, armadillos and everything else would scatter when they saw me
come by but, as at my office, they return to their normal activity as
soon as I was gone. I would mention that I was gone a lot sooner than
I would have been had I been walking.

I did nothing to endanger the wildlife by riding my bicycle down a
trail.

Why is it that 99% of the population is able to enjoy nature WITHOUT bringing a bicycle with them, but
mountain bikers are NOT?????

They are able to enjoy nature without a bike, but the enjoyment of
wildlife is not what they are looking for when they are riding a
mountain bike.

A lot of mountain bikers are LYING then, because they say they are
there to enjoy nature, just like everyone else.

They are enjoying the terrain and the natural flow of
the land. It is that part of nature that they come to enjoy.

Why can't mountain bikers be honest enough to answer these questions????? This is not rocket science, you know. The issues are as plain as day. And yet mountain bikers pretend (?) not to understand them....

The issues, as you define them, are not plain as day. The real issue
is whether mountain biking is compatible with responsible stewardship
of our natural resources. From what I have seen of the mountain
biking community and its effects on the trails around Tallahassee, it
is entirely compatible.

Then you have ignored the evidence.

The most heavily traveled trails around here are maintained by the
mountain biking community to prevent erosion.

Trail maintenance doesn't prevent erosion. It CAUSES erosion.

The park is full of
indigenous wildlife. I have never heard of any conflict between
bikers and pedestrians or equestrians, all of whom use the trails.

Then you have been on Mars.

Mike, I believe that the reason you have made such negligible progress
here in over 15 years is that you have not been able to demonstrate
that mountain biking is as destructive as you believe it is.

No, I have demonstrated it. You just haven't READ it.
--
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of!

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

On Nov 10, 1:29*am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Fri, 7 Nov 2008 10:14:25 -0800 (PST), Olebiker
wrote:

Mike, I am not a mountain biker, but I would like to address a couple
of your comments.

Why can't bicyclists see how INCREDIBLY selfish it is of them to
insist on bringing a large, fast-moving piece of MACHINERY with them
into wildlife habitat, where it disturbs and endangers wildlife and
all other trail users?????

The whole world is wildlife habitat. *Wherever we go we temporarily
displace some wildlife. *Every time I go out of my office I disturb
the squirrels, birds, and the flock of Canada geese that have taken up
residence in the pond next to my office. *As soon as I have passed,
they come back.

Not always. The ones you kill don't come back, and the ones that don't
tolerate disturbance don't come back. The effect of human disturbance
is well documented, but only for people who READ. Mountain bikers
don't read (or don't comprehend) anything that might tel then the
truth about mountain biking impacts.

The same thing used to happen when I did ride a mountain bike. *Deer,
turkeys, armadillos and everything else would scatter when they saw me
come by but, as at my office, they return to their normal activity as
soon as I was gone. *I would mention that I was gone a lot sooner than
I would have been had I been walking.

I did nothing to endanger the wildlife by riding my bicycle down a
trail.

Why is it that 99% of the population is able to enjoy nature WITHOUT bringing a bicycle with them, but
mountain bikers are NOT?????

They are able to enjoy nature without a bike, but the enjoyment of
wildlife is not what they are looking for when they are riding a
mountain bike.

A lot of mountain bikers are LYING then, because they say they are
there to enjoy nature, just like everyone else.

* They are enjoying the terrain and the natural flow of

the land. *It is that part of nature that they come to enjoy.

Why can't mountain bikers be honest enough to answer these questions????? This is not rocket science, you know. The issues are as plain as day. And yet mountain bikers pretend (?) not to understand them....

The issues, as you define them, are not plain as day. *The real issue
is whether mountain biking is compatible with responsible stewardship
of our natural resources. *From what I have seen of the mountain
biking community and its effects on the trails around Tallahassee, it
is entirely compatible.

Then you have ignored the evidence.

The most heavily traveled trails around here are maintained by the
mountain biking community to prevent erosion.

Trail maintenance doesn't prevent erosion. It CAUSES erosion.

* The park is full of

indigenous wildlife. *I have never heard of any conflict between
bikers and pedestrians or equestrians, all of whom use the trails.

Then you have been on Mars.

Mike, I believe that the reason you have made such negligible progress
here in over 15 years is that you have not been able to demonstrate
that mountain biking is as destructive as you believe it is.

No, I have demonstrated it. You just haven't READ it.


Michael J. Vandeman demonstrated it by doing it, he is an admitted
mountain-biker himself. He also admitted to cutting down trees for his
own selfish pleasure. Michael Vandeman also flies on commercial
airlines even though he knows they pollute the upper atmosphere. He's
a fraud who ignores real environmental problems.

On Nov 10, 1:29*am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
On Fri, 7 Nov 2008 10:14:25 -0800 (PST), Olebiker
wrote:

Mike, I am not a mountain biker, but I would like to address a couple
of your comments.

Why can't bicyclists see how INCREDIBLY selfish it is of them to
insist on bringing a large, fast-moving piece of MACHINERY with them
into wildlife habitat, where it disturbs and endangers wildlife and
all other trail users?????

The whole world is wildlife habitat. *Wherever we go we temporarily
displace some wildlife. *Every time I go out of my office I disturb
the squirrels, birds, and the flock of Canada geese that have taken up
residence in the pond next to my office. *As soon as I have passed,
they come back.

Not always. The ones you kill don't come back, and the ones that don't
tolerate disturbance don't come back.

And the ones YOU kill don't come back either. That doesn't mean you
are endangering the continuation of their species.

We have seen, in my lifetime, behavioral changes in a great many
species that have made them much more tolerant of human interaction.
These behavioral modifications are not reliant on physical mutations
that may take thousands of years.

The effect of human disturbance
is well documented, but only for people who READ. Mountain bikers
don't read (or don't comprehend) anything that might tel then the
truth about mountain biking impacts.

As I said, I am not a mountain biker.

Mike, all you do is read. Get your head out of your books and go
outside and see how wildlife really behave, not how you imagine them
to behave.

The same thing used to happen when I did ride a mountain bike. *Deer,
turkeys, armadillos and everything else would scatter when they saw me
come by but, as at my office, they return to their normal activity as
soon as I was gone. *I would mention that I was gone a lot sooner than
I would have been had I been walking.

I did nothing to endanger the wildlife by riding my bicycle down a
trail.

Why is it that 99% of the population is able to enjoy nature WITHOUT bringing a bicycle with them, but
mountain bikers are NOT?????

They are able to enjoy nature without a bike, but the enjoyment of
wildlife is not what they are looking for when they are riding a
mountain bike.

A lot of mountain bikers are LYING then, because they say they are
there to enjoy nature, just like everyone else.

Go back and read what I wrote. They are not looking to view WILDLIFE.

* They are enjoying the terrain and the natural flow of

the land. *It is that part of nature that they come to enjoy.

Why can't mountain bikers be honest enough to answer these questions????? This is not rocket science, you know. The issues are as plain as day. And yet mountain bikers pretend (?) not to understand them....

The issues, as you define them, are not plain as day. *The real issue
is whether mountain biking is compatible with responsible stewardship
of our natural resources. *From what I have seen of the mountain
biking community and its effects on the trails around Tallahassee, it
is entirely compatible.

Then you have ignored the evidence.

Have you seen the trails around here?

The most heavily traveled trails around here are maintained by the
mountain biking community to prevent erosion.

Trail maintenance doesn't prevent erosion. It CAUSES erosion.

I challenge you to show me an example of where trail maintenance
around Tallahassee has produced erosion.

* The park is full of

indigenous wildlife. *I have never heard of any conflict between
bikers and pedestrians or equestrians, all of whom use the trails.

Then you have been on Mars.

No Mike, I've been right here in Tallahassee.

Mike, I believe that the reason you have made such negligible progress
here in over 15 years is that you have not been able to demonstrate
that mountain biking is as destructive as you believe it is.

No, I have demonstrated it. You just haven't READ it.

Mike, I have been reading your writings for years. As I told you
fifteen years ago, you think that your opinion and your world view
constitute facts.

Your tactics don't work. There is an old saying that "if you keep
doing what you are doing, you are going to keep getting what you
got." You are not influencing anyone here that mountain biking is
unreasonably destructive because all you have done is give us your
point of view without any research to back it up.