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Stay away from "Napa Valley Bike Tours"
Let me begin by saying that if you are considering a bicycle tour of the
Napa Valley, I highly DO NOT recommend that you go through John Hilderbrand' s "Napa Valley Bike Tours." If the numerous unresolved complaints on the Better Business Bureau's web site don't convince you, perhaps this post will. I've been meaning to post a review of our California vacation, including the Napa Valley, for about a month now. However, we had an unresolved issue that FINALLY got resolved a few days ago (though not to our satisfaction, I've reached the point of giving up). Back in September, my wife and I decided that we wanted to take a bicycle tour of the Napa Valley. We surfed the web and found NVBT. We called, and the owner, John, answered the phone. I was impressed that we were able to deal with the owner, and felt that perhaps we might receive some "personal touch" based off of our first few conversations. We were interested in what the site posted as the "romantic getaway" tour. It was a 3 day tour that included a bunch of extras. The site lists the price as $750/pp weekday and $850/pp weekend. We were arriving on a Tuesday and departing on a Thursday. John said that he was doing a big tour (called the "Terry tour") that week; however, he would definitely be able to work something special out for the two of us. A few days later, he charged our account the weekend rate (even though it was on the weekdays). I let it slide (stupid me), assuming that he meant it when he said it would be "really special." In the weeks following, I contacted him for the details of when we were to show up. He said 8:30 am Tuesday morning. He also said he would call me a few days before to confirm everything. No calls. A day before we were to arrive, I called the shop and spoke with the guy working there, Harper. He confirmed an 8:30 am start time. The web site said that the first day wasn't really a tour, and we were to show up later in the day. However, I figured this is why he charged us the extra amount, and as John and Harper said, we were to show up at 8:30 am for our first tour. We arrived at the shop at 8:45, and witnessed Harper in the first of many near-nervous-breakdowns. It turns out, they forgot about us, and didn't have a tour lined up after all. Instead, they gave us two rental bikes and a map and were forced to fend for ourselves. No tour; no van support. Fortunately, we are relatively young and in shape. We made the best of it (actually, we had a great time, no thanks to NVBT). We are relatively novice bicyclists, going about 5-10 miles when we ride here at home. That day, we rode about 30 miles: We started at the corner of Trower and Solano Road. We rode north on Solano until we got to Yountville. We were going to eat lunch there, but it was kind of early for lunch, so we went east on Yountville Cross road to S. Anderson winery. We did the morning tour there, and it was pretty interesting. We went in the caves and did some tastings inside. There, they showed us where they aged their sparkling wine. They still do it in the Champaign tradition: Step 1: Ferment Step 2: Rack/Age Step 3: Bottle with an old-school bottlecap. Step 4: Add some sugar Step 5: Yeast eats sugar, splits (basically) in half producing alcohol and carbon dioxide (bubbles) Step 6: As the yeast finishes, it settles to the bottom of the neck (the bottle is almost upside down). The bottle is rotated Ľ turn several times over 10 years. Step 7: Dip top of bottle in liquid nitrogen (or the like) and the sediment (and some champagne) will freeze. Step 8: Open bottle (pressure will shoot the frozen cap out) Step 9: Add sugar for residual flavor. Step 8: cork it. Our tour guide there recommended we stop at Oakville grocery for lunch. It was a bit out of the way, but we rode to it, and indeed, it was a good lunch (the Napa Valley Bike tour site claimed that they would include a lunch from there as part of the day 3 tour. Since they totally forgot about us on day 3, I am glad we stopped when we did. more on that later). After lunch, we rode back to the Silverado trail, and throughout the afternoon, stopped at various wineries along the way south back to the bike shop. We managed to stay relatively sober, due to all of the biking and extra water intake required because of it. Also, the actual drinking was pretty well spaced out because it isn't like driving, where it takes you 2 minutes to get to the next winery. We ended up back at the shop and drove to our B & B, McClelland Priest. Lodgings there were part of our "tour" through NVBT. This place is the quintessential B&B with the personal touch. The owner/operator, Celeste, very much made you feel like a friend, rather than a hotel guest. Our room was out of sight, with a hot-tub that felt really good after a long day's ride. After John's forgetting about us, he said he would get us a "special" bottle of wine and have it waiting in our room. Mysteriously, none ever showed up. Fortunately, Celeste was on top of things, with wine and cheese set out for the guests as they arrive in the evening. As part of the package, John gave us a gift certificate to Zuzu's, a "tapas" restaurant that basically specializes in serving appetizers. It was pretty interesting. We drank some pretty good Cider. We haven't had that stuff since we were in London. The next morning, NVBT was actually ready for us as they had promised (sort of). John had hired someone (named Dave) to give my wife and me a personal tour. Dave's original plan was to have Harper drive us up to Calistoga, where Dave was going to take some readings on his Pinot Noir (he is a wine maker, and it was harvest season). Then, we would ride back, stopping along the way. Unfortunately, Harper refused, as he had loaded up the front seats of his truck with a bunch of crap that he had to take to the Terry Tour. Once again, we were going to have another day without the promised "van support." Good thing we are young and in shape. Anyway, Dave's tour was great. Dave knew many of the vintners whose wineries at which we stopped. We didn't have to pay for any tastings because Dave knew the owners (and for the guys he didn't know, he nicely bull****ted our way in). There were two very notable stops. The first was at Del Grotto. We tasted the same Cabernet out of two different barrels-Minnesota Oak and French Oak. We personally liked that from the Minnesota Oak better. However, the trend in the Napa Valley is definitely toward the French oak. My guess is probably because it is more expensive. Granted, the wine is smoother from the French Oak, but I think that status has a lot more to do with it than one might guess. I wouldn't be surprised if they preferred American oak in France. The second memorable stop was at John Caldwell's. This is a very small winery that makes some really great wine. Dave was knocking on doors and making himself at home, when we finally found John Caldwell in the back room titrating some wine. He gave us a taste of it. Fantastic! At about 3:15, we ended up back at the B&B. The night before, we were told that we had reservations on the "Napa Valley Wine Train" for this evening. I recalled on the NVBT we site, it said (in fact, this is a quote from what is STILL on the web site): Then the van picks you up at 3 PM so you can freshen up in your room or get a massage or spa treatment. In the evening the McClelland Priest B&B will serve hors d'oeuvres and wine while you visit with the other guests. Finally a fine dining experience awaits you on the Wine Train. Our Rickshaaw will deliver you there and the limo service will pick you up. We attempted to call John Hilderbrand's cell phone MANY MANY times after we drove to the B&B (van? Yeah right!). We were anticipating a late night of drinking fine wine on the train, and were looking forward to getting a ride to and from. However, the guy never called us back! We didn't even know where the place was or if it was already paid for. Fortunately, our Hertz rental car had "never lost" which got us there and back, but we were QUITE disappointed to have to drive (especially under those conditions. I hear that the Napa Valley cops are always looking for some tourist DUIs; fortunately, I managed to make it back intact). The wine train was kind of a misnomer as well. Wine isn't even included in the tour! Then, they charge you the usual restaurant-inflated prices for relatively mediocre table wine. Oh well. Supposedly, this is one of THE things to do in Napa Valley, so we had to try it. The next morning, we went back to the shop for what was supposed to be our 3rd day of touring. Here is what the web site says you will see on day 3: Our tour guide arrives to start you on a scenic trip up the Napa Valley. We will stop for a tasting at Havens Winery, known for its fabulous Merlots. A fun next stop is Oakville Grocery where you can taste just about everything in the store; then on to Silver Oak and their fine Cabernets, Plumpjack Winery and lunch at Caymus accompanied with a glass of their award winning Cabernet. Afternoon takes you for a short jaunt to Mumm Cuvče Napa and a beautiful flute glass of their sparkling wine. At 3 PM, the van then whisks you back to your car so you can start your journey home. Total day's bike mileage: 18 Instead, we got to the shop to see Harper again. This time, he was even closer to the nervous-breakdown. He called John over their wireless walkie-talkies. Much to nobody's delight, John's reply over the walkie-talkie was "****, I forgot about them." He then offered to refund us $400 and told us to leave our address with Harper so he could send us some wine for his poor treatment. Not letting it spoil our vacation, we accepted and took the bikes ourselves again. This time, we went for a ride through the hilly south Napa Valley. We actually only did a half day tour on this day. Our legs were tired, and we were going to head south to Santa Cruz to catch Skerik's Syncopated Taint Septet that evening. After it was all said and done, I did the math. It turns out, we could have spent $627 less if we had never met John Hilderbrand. On top of that, if we went that route, we wouldn't have been EXPECTING stuff we didn't receive. Here is the breakdown, if you are interested. Our credit card was charged $1831.75. $1831.75 - taxes = $1700 $1700 - $120 = $1580 (day 1 "bike rental" at $60 per day/per bike) that evening, we were presented with a $90 certificate for Zuzu's: $1580 - $90 = $1490 the next day, the Dave tour was given (Dave told us, and John said on the phone that John gave him $100) $1490- $100 - $120 (bikes for day 2) = $1270 McClelland Priest lists two night packages of their "Master Suite" (not sure if that was us, but it was a very nice suite) at $419: $1270 - $419 = $851 The wine train is listed at $85 per person: $851 - $170 = $681 We "rented" our bikes the next morning from the time we arrived at about 10:30 until we departed the Napa Valley at 12:30. The site lists rentals at $8/hour: $691 - $64 = $617 He offered a refund of $400: $627 - $400 = $227. We figured $227 would nicely cover "some wine." We bought a case from Montecello at $400 shipped. Only, our refund never came. One week went by. I called him. I left messages. I left emails. Nothing. Two weeks. I spoke with his underling, Andre. Andre learned from the master, "Oh, yeah, we are in the process. I will talk to John and get it straightened out by the end of the day." Three weeks. I talked to John on the phone. He pulled some "oh, this is a cell phone" bull and hung up on me (never calling me back). I was skeptical that we would see ANY sort of refund from him after that incident. Feeling helpless, I wrote a message to Celeste, the B&B owner (who I know is a real person with values, unlike Hilderbrand). She said she would talk with John and straighten things out. More time passed. I spoke with And "Your paperwork is out, I think he will be taking care of it today." Finally, I called John's cell phone last week and didn't get voicemail He answered. I am sure he was bummed that it was me, but he said once again "I will be crediting your account today. If you don't see anything in a week, call me." I said, "I will; I just hope you'll call me back." Indeed, a week later, $400 was credited. However, no wine. He isn't going to send wine. He simply lied (as is his specialty) to tell us what we wanted to hear. He said that he was going to send me his list of "costs" to show that a $400 credit is fair. I guess it is more expensive for him as a local Napa business man to line up these efforts than it is for me, a tourist. He is full of ****. No "cost list" has come (nor will it). The bottom line is that as a businessman, if you expect to keep your business and clientele, when you screw up, you need to make it up to your customers. This guy expects us to pay full price for what we did receive, even though it wasn't what was originally promised. In fact, he expects not only for us to pay full price, but for him to take a nifty $227 profit on top of it. Bottom line: if you want to do a Napa Valley bicycle tour, go elsewhere. If you need to work with Hilderbrand, rent bikes from him only. Call Celeste for lodging. If you REALLY want to screw yourself and pay Hilderbrand for the package deal, at least make him itemize each item instead of charging you a lump sum so he can screw you over later. If you still aren't convinced, check the Better Business Bureau. You will see that he has had multiple complaints, and he handles them all the same way, "Ignore it and it will go away." It doesn't ALWAYS work that way... |
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#2
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Stay away from "Napa Valley Bike Tours"
You're lucky some idiot drunk tourists didn't run you over with their car.
"Happy Russ" wrote in message news:sCjFb.6854$Fg.4929@lakeread01... Let me begin by saying that if you are considering a bicycle tour of the Napa Valley, I highly DO NOT recommend that you go through John Hilderbrand' s "Napa Valley Bike Tours." If the numerous unresolved complaints on the Better Business Bureau's web site don't convince you, perhaps this post will. I've been meaning to post a review of our California vacation, including the Napa Valley, for about a month now. However, we had an unresolved issue that FINALLY got resolved a few days ago (though not to our satisfaction, I've reached the point of giving up). Back in September, my wife and I decided that we wanted to take a bicycle tour of the Napa Valley. We surfed the web and found NVBT. We called, and the owner, John, answered the phone. I was impressed that we were able to deal with the owner, and felt that perhaps we might receive some "personal touch" based off of our first few conversations. We were interested in what the site posted as the "romantic getaway" tour. It was a 3 day tour that included a bunch of extras. The site lists the price as $750/pp weekday and $850/pp weekend. We were arriving on a Tuesday and departing on a Thursday. John said that he was doing a big tour (called the "Terry tour") that week; however, he would definitely be able to work something special out for the two of us. A few days later, he charged our account the weekend rate (even though it was on the weekdays). I let it slide (stupid me), assuming that he meant it when he said it would be "really special." In the weeks following, I contacted him for the details of when we were to show up. He said 8:30 am Tuesday morning. He also said he would call me a few days before to confirm everything. No calls. A day before we were to arrive, I called the shop and spoke with the guy working there, Harper. He confirmed an 8:30 am start time. The web site said that the first day wasn't really a tour, and we were to show up later in the day. However, I figured this is why he charged us the extra amount, and as John and Harper said, we were to show up at 8:30 am for our first tour. We arrived at the shop at 8:45, and witnessed Harper in the first of many near-nervous-breakdowns. It turns out, they forgot about us, and didn't have a tour lined up after all. Instead, they gave us two rental bikes and a map and were forced to fend for ourselves. No tour; no van support. Fortunately, we are relatively young and in shape. We made the best of it (actually, we had a great time, no thanks to NVBT). We are relatively novice bicyclists, going about 5-10 miles when we ride here at home. That day, we rode about 30 miles: We started at the corner of Trower and Solano Road. We rode north on Solano until we got to Yountville. We were going to eat lunch there, but it was kind of early for lunch, so we went east on Yountville Cross road to S. Anderson winery. We did the morning tour there, and it was pretty interesting. We went in the caves and did some tastings inside. There, they showed us where they aged their sparkling wine. They still do it in the Champaign tradition: Step 1: Ferment Step 2: Rack/Age Step 3: Bottle with an old-school bottlecap. Step 4: Add some sugar Step 5: Yeast eats sugar, splits (basically) in half producing alcohol and carbon dioxide (bubbles) Step 6: As the yeast finishes, it settles to the bottom of the neck (the bottle is almost upside down). The bottle is rotated Ľ turn several times over 10 years. Step 7: Dip top of bottle in liquid nitrogen (or the like) and the sediment (and some champagne) will freeze. Step 8: Open bottle (pressure will shoot the frozen cap out) Step 9: Add sugar for residual flavor. Step 8: cork it. Our tour guide there recommended we stop at Oakville grocery for lunch. It was a bit out of the way, but we rode to it, and indeed, it was a good lunch (the Napa Valley Bike tour site claimed that they would include a lunch from there as part of the day 3 tour. Since they totally forgot about us on day 3, I am glad we stopped when we did. more on that later). After lunch, we rode back to the Silverado trail, and throughout the afternoon, stopped at various wineries along the way south back to the bike shop. We managed to stay relatively sober, due to all of the biking and extra water intake required because of it. Also, the actual drinking was pretty well spaced out because it isn't like driving, where it takes you 2 minutes to get to the next winery. We ended up back at the shop and drove to our B & B, McClelland Priest. Lodgings there were part of our "tour" through NVBT. This place is the quintessential B&B with the personal touch. The owner/operator, Celeste, very much made you feel like a friend, rather than a hotel guest. Our room was out of sight, with a hot-tub that felt really good after a long day's ride. After John's forgetting about us, he said he would get us a "special" bottle of wine and have it waiting in our room. Mysteriously, none ever showed up. Fortunately, Celeste was on top of things, with wine and cheese set out for the guests as they arrive in the evening. As part of the package, John gave us a gift certificate to Zuzu's, a "tapas" restaurant that basically specializes in serving appetizers. It was pretty interesting. We drank some pretty good Cider. We haven't had that stuff since we were in London. The next morning, NVBT was actually ready for us as they had promised (sort of). John had hired someone (named Dave) to give my wife and me a personal tour. Dave's original plan was to have Harper drive us up to Calistoga, where Dave was going to take some readings on his Pinot Noir (he is a wine maker, and it was harvest season). Then, we would ride back, stopping along the way. Unfortunately, Harper refused, as he had loaded up the front seats of his truck with a bunch of crap that he had to take to the Terry Tour. Once again, we were going to have another day without the promised "van support." Good thing we are young and in shape. Anyway, Dave's tour was great. Dave knew many of the vintners whose wineries at which we stopped. We didn't have to pay for any tastings because Dave knew the owners (and for the guys he didn't know, he nicely bull****ted our way in). There were two very notable stops. The first was at Del Grotto. We tasted the same Cabernet out of two different barrels-Minnesota Oak and French Oak. We personally liked that from the Minnesota Oak better. However, the trend in the Napa Valley is definitely toward the French oak. My guess is probably because it is more expensive. Granted, the wine is smoother from the French Oak, but I think that status has a lot more to do with it than one might guess. I wouldn't be surprised if they preferred American oak in France. The second memorable stop was at John Caldwell's. This is a very small winery that makes some really great wine. Dave was knocking on doors and making himself at home, when we finally found John Caldwell in the back room titrating some wine. He gave us a taste of it. Fantastic! At about 3:15, we ended up back at the B&B. The night before, we were told that we had reservations on the "Napa Valley Wine Train" for this evening. I recalled on the NVBT we site, it said (in fact, this is a quote from what is STILL on the web site): Then the van picks you up at 3 PM so you can freshen up in your room or get a massage or spa treatment. In the evening the McClelland Priest B&B will serve hors d'oeuvres and wine while you visit with the other guests. Finally a fine dining experience awaits you on the Wine Train. Our Rickshaaw will deliver you there and the limo service will pick you up. We attempted to call John Hilderbrand's cell phone MANY MANY times after we drove to the B&B (van? Yeah right!). We were anticipating a late night of drinking fine wine on the train, and were looking forward to getting a ride to and from. However, the guy never called us back! We didn't even know where the place was or if it was already paid for. Fortunately, our Hertz rental car had "never lost" which got us there and back, but we were QUITE disappointed to have to drive (especially under those conditions. I hear that the Napa Valley cops are always looking for some tourist DUIs; fortunately, I managed to make it back intact). The wine train was kind of a misnomer as well. Wine isn't even included in the tour! Then, they charge you the usual restaurant-inflated prices for relatively mediocre table wine. Oh well. Supposedly, this is one of THE things to do in Napa Valley, so we had to try it. The next morning, we went back to the shop for what was supposed to be our 3rd day of touring. Here is what the web site says you will see on day 3: Our tour guide arrives to start you on a scenic trip up the Napa Valley. We will stop for a tasting at Havens Winery, known for its fabulous Merlots. A fun next stop is Oakville Grocery where you can taste just about everything in the store; then on to Silver Oak and their fine Cabernets, Plumpjack Winery and lunch at Caymus accompanied with a glass of their award winning Cabernet. Afternoon takes you for a short jaunt to Mumm Cuvče Napa and a beautiful flute glass of their sparkling wine. At 3 PM, the van then whisks you back to your car so you can start your journey home. Total day's bike mileage: 18 Instead, we got to the shop to see Harper again. This time, he was even closer to the nervous-breakdown. He called John over their wireless walkie-talkies. Much to nobody's delight, John's reply over the walkie-talkie was "****, I forgot about them." He then offered to refund us $400 and told us to leave our address with Harper so he could send us some wine for his poor treatment. Not letting it spoil our vacation, we accepted and took the bikes ourselves again. This time, we went for a ride through the hilly south Napa Valley. We actually only did a half day tour on this day. Our legs were tired, and we were going to head south to Santa Cruz to catch Skerik's Syncopated Taint Septet that evening. After it was all said and done, I did the math. It turns out, we could have spent $627 less if we had never met John Hilderbrand. On top of that, if we went that route, we wouldn't have been EXPECTING stuff we didn't receive. Here is the breakdown, if you are interested. Our credit card was charged $1831.75. $1831.75 - taxes = $1700 $1700 - $120 = $1580 (day 1 "bike rental" at $60 per day/per bike) that evening, we were presented with a $90 certificate for Zuzu's: $1580 - $90 = $1490 the next day, the Dave tour was given (Dave told us, and John said on the phone that John gave him $100) $1490- $100 - $120 (bikes for day 2) = $1270 McClelland Priest lists two night packages of their "Master Suite" (not sure if that was us, but it was a very nice suite) at $419: $1270 - $419 = $851 The wine train is listed at $85 per person: $851 - $170 = $681 We "rented" our bikes the next morning from the time we arrived at about 10:30 until we departed the Napa Valley at 12:30. The site lists rentals at $8/hour: $691 - $64 = $617 He offered a refund of $400: $627 - $400 = $227. We figured $227 would nicely cover "some wine." We bought a case from Montecello at $400 shipped. Only, our refund never came. One week went by. I called him. I left messages. I left emails. Nothing. Two weeks. I spoke with his underling, Andre. Andre learned from the master, "Oh, yeah, we are in the process. I will talk to John and get it straightened out by the end of the day." Three weeks. I talked to John on the phone. He pulled some "oh, this is a cell phone" bull and hung up on me (never calling me back). I was skeptical that we would see ANY sort of refund from him after that incident. Feeling helpless, I wrote a message to Celeste, the B&B owner (who I know is a real person with values, unlike Hilderbrand). She said she would talk with John and straighten things out. More time passed. I spoke with And "Your paperwork is out, I think he will be taking care of it today." Finally, I called John's cell phone last week and didn't get voicemail He answered. I am sure he was bummed that it was me, but he said once again "I will be crediting your account today. If you don't see anything in a week, call me." I said, "I will; I just hope you'll call me back." Indeed, a week later, $400 was credited. However, no wine. He isn't going to send wine. He simply lied (as is his specialty) to tell us what we wanted to hear. He said that he was going to send me his list of "costs" to show that a $400 credit is fair. I guess it is more expensive for him as a local Napa business man to line up these efforts than it is for me, a tourist. He is full of ****. No "cost list" has come (nor will it). The bottom line is that as a businessman, if you expect to keep your business and clientele, when you screw up, you need to make it up to your customers. This guy expects us to pay full price for what we did receive, even though it wasn't what was originally promised. In fact, he expects not only for us to pay full price, but for him to take a nifty $227 profit on top of it. Bottom line: if you want to do a Napa Valley bicycle tour, go elsewhere. If you need to work with Hilderbrand, rent bikes from him only. Call Celeste for lodging. If you REALLY want to screw yourself and pay Hilderbrand for the package deal, at least make him itemize each item instead of charging you a lump sum so he can screw you over later. If you still aren't convinced, check the Better Business Bureau. You will see that he has had multiple complaints, and he handles them all the same way, "Ignore it and it will go away." It doesn't ALWAYS work that way... |
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Stay away from "Napa Valley Bike Tours"
Nomen Nescio wrote:
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 11:11:05 -0500, "Happy Russ" wrote: If the numerous unresolved complaints on the Better Business Bureau's web site don't convince you, perhaps this post will. You haven't convinced me. According to the BBB, there is ONE complaint: "Napa Valley Bike Tours has had 1 complaint which was closed as No Response." Which means that there is one complaint where the company refused to make any response explaining the situation to the BBB. There may well be multiple other complaints where NVBT gave some explanation to the BBB. In general I've seen evidence in other cases that the BBBs are very willing to take the business owner's side of any dispute, so if there is any possible interpretation that is favorable to the business they'll close the complaint as being resolved (which may have happened to some complaints since the time that 'Happy Russ' checked their site). The BBB report on NVBT begins with "Based on BBB complaint files, this company has an unsatisfactory record with the Bureau" based on the complaint to which NVBT failed to respond with any explanation. As a pseudo-random check of typical SF Bay Area BBB business reports, I checked the 16 other businesses listed in their membership as starting with the word "Napa." All 16 were shown as having a "satisfactory record" and as having "no complaints." |
#4
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Stay away from "Napa Valley Bike Tours"
Some people are difficult to "convince." I'd like to see them take one of
the tours to test it out, rather than 'simply' relying on the experience of others. -- Steve Juniper "The problem with Texas Baptists is that they should have had their heads held under longer." -- Quoted by Molly Ivins -- "Nomen Nescio" wrote in message ... On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 11:11:05 -0500, "Happy Russ" wrote: If the numerous unresolved complaints on the Better Business Bureau's web site don't convince you, perhaps this post will. You haven't convinced me. According to the BBB, there is ONE complaint: "Napa Valley Bike Tours has had 1 complaint which was closed as No Response." |
#5
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Stay away from "Napa Valley Bike Tours"
"GWB" wrote in message
. .. You're lucky some idiot drunk tourists didn't run you over with their car. So you were up there driving around pretending to be someone else huh? It's always the anonymous cowards making smart assed comments. Maybe we'll tell your mother you've been playing on the computer instead of minding your potty training. |
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Stay away from "Napa Valley Bike Tours"
On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 18:20:02 +0100 (CET), Nomen Nescio
wrote: On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 11:11:05 -0500, "Happy Russ" wrote: If the numerous unresolved complaints on the Better Business Bureau's web site don't convince you, perhaps this post will. You haven't convinced me. According to the BBB, there is ONE complaint: "Napa Valley Bike Tours has had 1 complaint which was closed as No Response." He convinced me, by telling a solid story with lots of details about just what went wrong. Most Usenet complaint posts are vague to the point of being useless: lots of whining, but few facts. This post was a good model for those who have a gripe. Bob |
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Stay away from "Napa Valley Bike Tours"
"Bob Perlman" wrote in message ... On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 18:20:02 +0100 (CET), Nomen Nescio wrote: He convinced me, by telling a solid story with lots of details about just what went wrong. Most Usenet complaint posts are vague to the point of being useless: lots of whining, but few facts. This post was a good model for those who have a gripe. Bob I had the exact opposite reaction. He starts the topic with a complaint then proceeds to go on and on about boring and irrelevant details about wine, drinking, being drunk and avoiding the horrible local law enforcement that wants to prevent him from driving while drunk. He outlines that he actually had a good time, got $400 refunded, accounts for every penny of the money spent except for $227, which he complains should have been spent on more wine for him. I don't doubt that the tour operator/operation was not up to par. But he got bicycles, a place to say that he totally loved, a train ride event that he also loved and directions of where to go on a bicycle. Maybe if he stopped drinking so much he wouldn't think 30 miles is a long scary ride to have without someone following behind in a car. |
#8
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Stay away from "Napa Valley Bike Tours"
In article ,
"GWB" wrote: "Bob Perlman" wrote in message ... On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 18:20:02 +0100 (CET), Nomen Nescio wrote: He convinced me, by telling a solid story with lots of details about just what went wrong. Most Usenet complaint posts are vague to the point of being useless: lots of whining, but few facts. This post was a good model for those who have a gripe. Bob I had the exact opposite reaction. He starts the topic with a complaint then proceeds to go on and on about boring and irrelevant details about wine, drinking, being drunk and avoiding the horrible local law enforcement that wants to prevent him from driving while drunk. He outlines that he actually had a good time, got $400 refunded, accounts for every penny of the money spent except for $227, which he complains should have been spent on more wine for him. I don't doubt that the tour operator/operation was not up to par. But he got bicycles, a place to say that he totally loved, a train ride event that he also loved and directions of where to go on a bicycle. Maybe if he stopped drinking so much he wouldn't think 30 miles is a long scary ride to have without someone following behind in a car. Oh sure, and to his credit, he described what was good and what was bad about his trip. But it's one thing to take an unsupported bike tour through wine country (something I'd happily do), and another to pay for a supported bike tour and not get it. A $400 refund is a good start (though the poor guy had to hound the company for it), but he did a pretty reasonable cost accounting that sounds like he didn't get what he paid for (that said, his accounting is semi-reasonable: in theory a package tour is a value-added situation, because you're paying the tour operator to vet and arrange the services, and to deal with problems that crop up. The two counters to this are that the operator should get some volume discounts by buying the services in a wholesale fashion, and in this case it appears the tour operator was the primary problem). -- Ryan Cousineau, http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club |
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Stay away from "Napa Valley Bike Tours"
On Wed, 24 Dec 2003 02:17:33 GMT, "GWB"
wrote: "Bob Perlman" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 22 Dec 2003 18:20:02 +0100 (CET), Nomen Nescio wrote: He convinced me, by telling a solid story with lots of details about just what went wrong. Most Usenet complaint posts are vague to the point of being useless: lots of whining, but few facts. This post was a good model for those who have a gripe. Bob I had the exact opposite reaction. He starts the topic with a complaint then proceeds to go on and on about boring and irrelevant details about wine, drinking, being drunk and avoiding the horrible local law enforcement that wants to prevent him from driving while drunk. He outlines that he actually had a good time, got $400 refunded, accounts for every penny of the money spent except for $227, which he complains should have been spent on more wine for him. I don't doubt that the tour operator/operation was not up to par. But he got bicycles, a place to say that he totally loved, a train ride event that he also loved and directions of where to go on a bicycle. Maybe if he stopped drinking so much he wouldn't think 30 miles is a long scary ride to have without someone following behind in a car. If I read his post correctly, what he *didn't* get, for two of three days, was a tour, which is what he paid for. Not a kit of parts. Bob |
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Stay away from "Napa Valley Bike Tours"
"Bob Perlman" wrote in message
... If I read his post correctly, what he *didn't* get, for two of three days, was a tour, which is what he paid for. Not a kit of parts. Indeed. what troubles me is people here complaining about his posting apparently because he didn't included enough details or because he included too many. What sort of whackoes can't read this and take it for what it's worth? |
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