Truing a wheel

Geoff Lock wrote:

I have had a problem truing my rear wheel and so I saved up some money
and got myself a truing stand and a dishing tool. Having these tools
will make me an expert wheelbuilder - or so I thought.

It'll help you get it closer to the mark than otherwise, but it won't
make you an expert.

I have also "carefully" read Sheldon Brown's tutorial on wheelbuilding
(http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html), so I am now ready for
ANYTHING.

Not even that. It's said that wheel building and/or truing, is an art.
I never believed that, as if you follow the procedures, it has to work.

A bit of experience later, I bowed to the fact it probably is an art
after all. Think of it this way: It's NOT a rubik's cube, where you
can follow a set sequence of instruction for every state you're likely
to encounter.
When the puzzle is complete, you sit back satisfied that you didn't
have to peel off the stickers and undo the screws to "solve" it.

Wheel building involves peeling off stickers and undoing screws as a
matter of procedure before you can hope to solve it.

Practice is the key. The more you practice, the better you get. I've
trued a few wheels in my time, and laced and built a wheel from scratch
once. All have been successful (well, eventually), though I'm still
embarrassed as to how long it takes.

I have yet to even come close to truing a steel wheel so far.
Aluminium makes it so much easier. I've been told it's the same, but a
bit harder because steel is less pliable. I would argue the "bit
harder" is more like "bloody impossible", but since I no longer own any
steel rims, it ain't my problem any more. :-)

Now, 4hrs later, I have given up, loosen all my carefully tightened
spokes and my wheel is now ****ed!! DO YOU HEAR ME?? IT IS ****ED!!! HOW
IN THE HELL AM I GONNA GET AROUND TOMORROW, EH??

If you're expecting a truing jig is going to do the job for that ride
tomorrow, but that's not going to happen if you haven't practised.

I am no closer to that elusive round and straight wheel

Practise. There's no easy way out on this one.
--
Enter any 11-digit prime number to continue...

Geoff Lock wrote:
On 8/12/2010 10:59 AM, terryc wrote:
Geoff Lock wrote:

I am no closer to that elusive round and straight wheel

New materials, yes.
Old materials very, very hard.

I suspect that is my real problem as I have one area on the wheel which
seems flatter - almost as though that section has been bumped real hard

I've never been able to remove stuff like that by truing. strip rim down
and try a 3 point vice action is the best you can do.

I grab a coupla of spokes on each side and squeeze.

Try looking for the groups of four, a pair either side and squeezing
them. any adjust ment affects both side.

Also, did you say pretzel? at some stage you have to start letting
turns off from the other side. Ideally they all sing the same note when
you pling them.

On 8/12/2010 10:42 PM, terryc wrote:
Geoff Lock wrote:
On 8/12/2010 10:59 AM, terryc wrote:
Geoff Lock wrote:

I suspect that is my real problem as I have one area on the wheel
which seems flatter - almost as though that section has been bumped
real hard

I've never been able to remove stuff like that by truing. strip rim down
and try a 3 point vice action is the best you can do.

Knowing me, I'll probably crush the rim and make it worse! I think I
rather live with it for a while until I can afford new rims.


I grab a coupla of spokes on each side and squeeze.

Also, did you say pretzel? at some stage you have to start letting turns
off from the other side. Ideally they all sing the same note when you
pling them.

Hm, pretzel is actually a very good description of my efforts

That plinging bizzo you are talking about is lost on me becos I am
pretty hopeless musically - I mean a pling is a pling, right? A plong
could be a pling which just wants to be different and being the nice
fellow that I am, I tend to let things be (or should that be "let thongs
be")

Seriously speaking though, I suspect that plucking the spokes only work
if the rim is round to start with. I vaguely recall the physics of
resonance, length of string/spoke, tension, blah blah blah.

On 8/12/2010 9:41 PM, John Tserkezis wrote:
Geoff Lock wrote:

I have had a problem truing my rear wheel and so I saved up some money
and got myself a truing stand and a dishing tool. Having these tools
will make me an expert wheelbuilder - or so I thought.

It'll help you get it closer to the mark than otherwise, but it won't
make you an expert.

Don't I know it now, brother, don't I know it now

I have also "carefully" read Sheldon Brown's tutorial on wheelbuilding
(http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html), so I am now ready for
ANYTHING.

Not even that. It's said that wheel building and/or truing, is an art.
I never believed that, as if you follow the procedures, it has to work.

I believe it, I believe it!

A bit of experience later, I bowed to the fact it probably is an art
after all. Think of it this way: It's NOT a rubik's cube, where you
can follow a set sequence of instruction for every state you're likely
to encounter.
When the puzzle is complete, you sit back satisfied that you didn't
have to peel off the stickers and undo the screws to "solve" it.

Compared to truing a hweel, Rubik's Cube is a piece of ****

Wheel building involves peeling off stickers and undoing screws as a
matter of procedure before you can hope to solve it.

Practice is the key. The more you practice, the better you get. I've
trued a few wheels in my time, and laced and built a wheel from scratch
once. All have been successful (well, eventually), though I'm still
embarrassed as to how long it takes.

I was afraid someone would say that dreaded word "practice".

I have yet to even come close to truing a steel wheel so far.
Aluminium makes it so much easier. I've been told it's the same, but a
bit harder because steel is less pliable. I would argue the "bit
harder" is more like "bloody impossible", but since I no longer own any
steel rims, it ain't my problem any more. :-)

My demented sense of logic tells me that aluminium should be harder to
true than steel becos it is softer and thus harder to keep its shape
under load.

Having said that, I have only steel rims on the old bike and it is still
a ******* to to true steel rims anyway.

I might save up for a set of aluminium rims to see what the difference is.

Now, 4hrs later, I have given up, loosen all my carefully tightened
spokes and my wheel is now ****ed!! DO YOU HEAR ME?? IT IS ****ED!!! HOW
IN THE HELL AM I GONNA GET AROUND TOMORROW, EH??

If you're expecting a truing jig is going to do the job for that ride
tomorrow, but that's not going to happen if you haven't practised.

Damn! Stop it, you

I am no closer to that elusive round and straight wheel

Practise. There's no easy way out on this one.

I give up! I will practise, ok?

So far, Tomasso's suggestion to start on the vertical FIRST has paid
some dividends. It only took me 3hrs and 59mins, on the second go, to
get the rear wheel in a somewhat respectable shape. I mean a roundish
looking pretzel CAN still go round and round - sort of Except for the
little matter of that flat spot, which I am not gonna try to use that 3
point vice trick terryc suggested - I am too worried I'd screw it up.

On 9/12/2010 1:37 AM, Geoff Lock wrote:
On 8/12/2010 9:41 PM, John Tserkezis wrote:
Geoff Lock wrote:

I have had a problem truing my rear wheel and so I saved up some money
and got myself a truing stand and a dishing tool. Having these tools
will make me an expert wheelbuilder - or so I thought.

It'll help you get it closer to the mark than otherwise, but it won't
make you an expert.

Don't I know it now, brother, don't I know it now

I have also "carefully" read Sheldon Brown's tutorial on wheelbuilding
(http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html), so I am now ready for
ANYTHING.

Not even that. It's said that wheel building and/or truing, is an art.
I never believed that, as if you follow the procedures, it has to work.

I believe it, I believe it!

A bit of experience later, I bowed to the fact it probably is an art
after all. Think of it this way: It's NOT a rubik's cube, where you
can follow a set sequence of instruction for every state you're likely
to encounter.
When the puzzle is complete, you sit back satisfied that you didn't
have to peel off the stickers and undo the screws to "solve" it.

Compared to truing a hweel, Rubik's Cube is a piece of ****

Wheel building involves peeling off stickers and undoing screws as a
matter of procedure before you can hope to solve it.

Practice is the key. The more you practice, the better you get. I've
trued a few wheels in my time, and laced and built a wheel from scratch
once. All have been successful (well, eventually), though I'm still
embarrassed as to how long it takes.

I was afraid someone would say that dreaded word "practice".


Its cheaper to buy some wheels ready made than keep buggering them up,
plus time etc.



I get my wheels built in England - I select the hubs, spokes and rims
and if I order enough stuff or they have the freight on special list its
free.

Cheaper get what I order top job. I then ride them in and re tension the
wheel in my jig.

On 9/12/2010 1:07 PM, Rob wrote:
On 9/12/2010 1:37 AM, Geoff Lock wrote:
On 8/12/2010 9:41 PM, John Tserkezis wrote:
Geoff Lock wrote:



Its cheaper to buy some wheels ready made than keep buggering them up,
plus time etc.

I guess you are right but think of the joy you could have swearing at
the injustices of the world and the conspiracies of the Fates against
you as the wheel stays steadfastly and surely pretzel-like

Think of all the beer you miss out on as you spend half the day tweaking
and squeezing spokes.

I get my wheels built in England - I select the hubs, spokes and rims
and if I order enough stuff or they have the freight on special list its
free.

Cheaper get what I order top job. I then ride them in and re tension the
wheel in my jig.

I am not exactly a very rich person and I have to play the cards as I am
dealt them

Chucking away an old rim pains me somewhat.

Geoff Lock wrote:

Seriously speaking though, I suspect that plucking the spokes only work
if the rim is round to start with. I vaguely recall the physics of
resonance, length of string/spoke, tension, blah blah blah.

Sometimes it is just pling, pling, pling, plunk.
Anything else and I need a tuning meter.

On 9/12/2010 9:20 PM, terryc wrote:
Geoff Lock wrote:

Seriously speaking though, I suspect that plucking the spokes only
work if the rim is round to start with. I vaguely recall the physics
of resonance, length of string/spoke, tension, blah blah blah.

Sometimes it is just pling, pling, pling, plunk.
Anything else and I need a tuning meter.


Damn! No plongs? I could have sworn ....

Geoff Lock wrote:

On 6/12/2010 10:14 AM, BT Humble wrote:
Geoff Lock wrote:
I am no closer to that elusive round and straight wheel

It takes a lot of practice. I'm pretty crap at getting the radial
(vertical) aspect right, I usually end up considering getting within 1mm
as being adequate. :-)

1mm is damn good! So far, by starting on the vertical and getting it
sorta right, and moving onto the lateral, and rechecking the vertical
has worked for me (kind of), but I am still nowhere near that 1mm I
think I have a flat bit on my rim.

It's possible to correct that using spoke tension, but it'll be fiddly.


BTH

--
Posted at www.usenet.com.au

Geoff Lock wrote:

My demented sense of logic tells me that aluminium should be harder to
true than steel becos it is softer and thus harder to keep its shape
under load.

Having said that, I have only steel rims on the old bike and it is still
a ******* to to true steel rims anyway.

I might save up for a set of aluminium rims to see what the difference is.

Now that I think about it, I've tried on two steel rims.

By "tried" I mean failed abysmally in both cases.

First was on a friend's front wheel, who was slalom riding before the
bike threw him off when the front wheel tacoed.
On the side of the path, while he was nursing bloodied palms and
elbows, I got to work on the wheel. Along with an adjustable spanner,
I bent the wheel back so it was less bent than before. It was still too
buckled to have any front brakes, but enough to get home without a long
walk.
I don't know if you want to call this one a failure or success, as if
it's bent that badly, you NEED to replace it anyway (which he did). It
got him home. But when it started out in the shape of a taco, it's very
little effort to make it "less bent", which makes it a failure.

The second attempt was on a non-damaged wheel, just a minor truing
adjustment after many years of use. I had no excuse on this one, and I
still failed.
To this day, I still think I made it worse.

All other wheels I've done are Aluminium, and the worst of those was
not as bad as steel.
--
Clones are people two.