USPS TREK bikes really just "stock" frames????

On 7/9/04 4:05 PM, in article yUCHc.3030$ri.888@lakeread04, "J.B."
wrote:

I'm sure this question has been asked in the past - maybe someone can post a
link to the old discussion. With that said:

Are the USPS TREK bikes really just "stock" frames??? And if that's true,
being completely objective, doesn't it blow a huge hole in the custom frame
lobby? I guess it begs the question: If stock frames are good enough to
win the Tour De France, are they not good enough for average joe?

The primary point of a custom frame, unless you want particular aesthetics,
is to get a frame that fits you well. If the average joe fits a stock bike
that happens to fit Lance, or whoever, on USPS, then the stock frame is
certainly good enough for the average joe.

Baird

J.B. wrote:

I'm sure this question has been asked in the past - maybe someone can post a
link to the old discussion. With that said:

Are the USPS TREK bikes really just "stock" frames??? And if that's true,
being completely objective, doesn't it blow a huge hole in the custom frame
lobby? I guess it begs the question: If stock frames are good enough to
win the Tour De France, are they not good enough for average joe?

They are stock frames because Trek can't make "non-stock" frames with
the lug system they have. So they have managed to turn a problem into a
marketing opportunity...

Boasting that "we force all our riders to ride our frames even if they
don't really fit that well" doesn't sound as good.

Take a look at Hincapie's stem length some time and tell me he wouldn't
do better with a frame a few cm longer (that Trek doesn't make).

For another example of making lemonade out of lemons, look he

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2004...id=specialized

Specialized is boasting about making a custom 145mm stem for Cipo, but
why did they have to? Because their new carbon frame only comes in a
few sizes because the molds are so expensive, and for Mario to get his
stem low enough, they put him on the 58cm frame, which was too short, so
they made him a 145mm custom stem to fix the problem they created.

Lots of pros ride custom frames because they ride their stems lots lower
than normal humans. Petacchi rides a Pinarello that is something like a
58 TT / 54 ST just so he can get his stem really low.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?...004/news/may21

Since Pinarello makes thier frames out of tin cans, it's easy to make
custom frames, unlike Trek who makes their fancy frames out of expensive
plastic that is really expensive to make custom.


What I really want to know is, since Colnago and Trek both use lugs to
make their carbon frames, how can Colnago make custom C40s for their
racers, but Trek can't? What is the difference in their lug
construction?

J.B. wrote:

I'm sure this question has been asked in the past - maybe someone can post a
link to the old discussion. With that said:

Are the USPS TREK bikes really just "stock" frames??? And if that's true,
being completely objective, doesn't it blow a huge hole in the custom frame
lobby? I guess it begs the question: If stock frames are good enough to
win the Tour De France, are they not good enough for average joe?

They are stock frames because Trek can't make "non-stock" frames with
the lug system they have. So they have managed to turn a problem into a
marketing opportunity...

Boasting that "we force all our riders to ride our frames even if they
don't really fit that well" doesn't sound as good.

Take a look at Hincapie's stem length some time and tell me he wouldn't
do better with a frame a few cm longer (that Trek doesn't make).

For another example of making lemonade out of lemons, look he

http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/2004...id=specialized

Specialized is boasting about making a custom 145mm stem for Cipo, but
why did they have to? Because their new carbon frame only comes in a
few sizes because the molds are so expensive, and for Mario to get his
stem low enough, they put him on the 58cm frame, which was too short, so
they made him a 145mm custom stem to fix the problem they created.

Lots of pros ride custom frames because they ride their stems lots lower
than normal humans. Petacchi rides a Pinarello that is something like a
58 TT / 54 ST just so he can get his stem really low.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/tech.php?...004/news/may21

Since Pinarello makes thier frames out of tin cans, it's easy to make
custom frames, unlike Trek who makes their fancy frames out of expensive
plastic that is really expensive to make custom.


What I really want to know is, since Colnago and Trek both use lugs to
make their carbon frames, how can Colnago make custom C40s for their
racers, but Trek can't? What is the difference in their lug
construction?

Are the USPS TREK bikes really just "stock" frames??? And if that's true,
being completely objective, doesn't it blow a huge hole in the custom
frame
lobby? I guess it begs the question: If stock frames are good enough to
win the Tour De France, are they not good enough for average joe?

Yes, the team rides completely stock frames... with the exception that Lance
& two others are riding a new version of the Madone called the SSL, which is
built from 50 & 110-weight carbon, as opposed to the all-110-weight carbon
of the standard Madone or 5900. However, this frame will become available
as a limited-edition sometime in the next six months.

The way TREK builds carbon frames, the majority of the expense is
front-loaded. The first frame costs a fortune to build, but all after that
cost much less. So you amortize the cost out by building as many as
practical... so unless TREK were to entirely change how they make frames,
building non-production bikes for the team is out of the question.

The good thing about all this is that it gives us a better "floor" bike to
sell, since it's all about technology rather than uniqueness.

By the way, if anybody needs proof that TREK doesn't build custom frames for
the team, check out George Hincapie. It would be difficult for me to
believe that what he rides is an ideal fit! However, it's still interesting
to note that of the two areas one might want to change (lengthening the top
tube and making it taller), at least one doesn't appear to be an issue,
since he rides his stem as low as it can get. Pretty amazing how much drop
(from seat to bars) on his bike!

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

Are the USPS TREK bikes really just "stock" frames??? And if that's true,
being completely objective, doesn't it blow a huge hole in the custom
frame
lobby? I guess it begs the question: If stock frames are good enough to
win the Tour De France, are they not good enough for average joe?

Yes, the team rides completely stock frames... with the exception that Lance
& two others are riding a new version of the Madone called the SSL, which is
built from 50 & 110-weight carbon, as opposed to the all-110-weight carbon
of the standard Madone or 5900. However, this frame will become available
as a limited-edition sometime in the next six months.

The way TREK builds carbon frames, the majority of the expense is
front-loaded. The first frame costs a fortune to build, but all after that
cost much less. So you amortize the cost out by building as many as
practical... so unless TREK were to entirely change how they make frames,
building non-production bikes for the team is out of the question.

The good thing about all this is that it gives us a better "floor" bike to
sell, since it's all about technology rather than uniqueness.

By the way, if anybody needs proof that TREK doesn't build custom frames for
the team, check out George Hincapie. It would be difficult for me to
believe that what he rides is an ideal fit! However, it's still interesting
to note that of the two areas one might want to change (lengthening the top
tube and making it taller), at least one doesn't appear to be an issue,
since he rides his stem as low as it can get. Pretty amazing how much drop
(from seat to bars) on his bike!

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

On Fri, 9 Jul 2004 22:42:04 -0400, (Jesse
Thompson) wrote:

Take a look at Hincapie's stem length some time and tell me he wouldn't
do better with a frame a few cm longer (that Trek doesn't make).
Guys his size should be riding 13 or 14 cms stems, which he is. Or
are you saying he should have longer reach than he currently does?
I'm not so sure about that considering how flat his back is on the
bike.

JT

On Fri, 9 Jul 2004 22:42:04 -0400, (Jesse
Thompson) wrote:

Take a look at Hincapie's stem length some time and tell me he wouldn't
do better with a frame a few cm longer (that Trek doesn't make).
Guys his size should be riding 13 or 14 cms stems, which he is. Or
are you saying he should have longer reach than he currently does?
I'm not so sure about that considering how flat his back is on the
bike.

JT

jack- Are the USPS TREK bikes really just "stock" frames??? And if that's
true,
being completely objective, doesn't it blow a huge hole in the custom frame
lobby? I guess it begs the question: If stock frames are good enough to
win the Tour De France, are they not good enough for average joe? BRBR

Well, being good enough to win, doesn't really take into account the huge van
riding along with the riders full of spares, including framesets.

And they may be a size that fits a rider, and that becomes the 'stock size',
for Trek.

Lance's framesets are not 'stock'.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

jack- Are the USPS TREK bikes really just "stock" frames??? And if that's
true,
being completely objective, doesn't it blow a huge hole in the custom frame
lobby? I guess it begs the question: If stock frames are good enough to
win the Tour De France, are they not good enough for average joe? BRBR

Well, being good enough to win, doesn't really take into account the huge van
riding along with the riders full of spares, including framesets.

And they may be a size that fits a rider, and that becomes the 'stock size',
for Trek.

Lance's framesets are not 'stock'.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

JFT- Men of anywhere near average height and proportions don't need custom
frames for bike fit. BRBR

This is a great point. Maybe 5% of the framesets we sell are custom. Bike shops
that spout that custom is needed for most are mostly Serotta, cuz they make $
on custom framesets.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"